roselavellan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire
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Post by roselavellan on Aug 17, 2016 21:31:17 GMT
I downloaded the ME3 gibbed editor recently. Zaeed had died in the SM, god knows how I didn't notice. I wanted him alive but not loyal. So I loaded my current save, found the plot tab and unchecked the box marked 'Zaeed is loyal'. Met him on the Citadel and he died, as he should if he's not loyal. Worked a treat. So as long as you do it beforehand it should be okay and have no ramifications. If I were you I'd delete everything to do with the genophage and take the game back to before you start that plot arc. You'd have to load up a save before the Genophage plot in gibbed, maybe on Palaven's moon or on the Citadel afterwards, but before you meet Wrex. Then find the box for Wrex and click and un-click whatever you have to to make him dead. Hopefully then, when you go back into the game, Wreav will turn up. He's delightful by the way. To save Mordin make sure you've destroyed Maelon's data in ME2, if you didn't find the box for that in gibbed as well. Honestly I just open up all the tabs and look around until I find what I need. Haven't broken the game. Yet. Thanks so much, that sounds very helpful!
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Post by opuspace on Aug 19, 2016 6:28:09 GMT
I thought they were going into an interesting direction with the genophage during ME2, where things were rough for krogan fathers who wanted to be with their children and the mothers were going through heartbreak giving birth to dead kids until they were willfully going through torture just to be able to have a kid without fear of it dying. Think about it. A lot of people can take for granted that they have the option to conceive a child and expect it will survive, look at you and spit up on that one good shirt you just had to be wearing when your child's mother went in. What would that be like, if it was a 75% chance you were going to look at a dead infant after a 12 month long pregnancy of waiting, maybe even feeling it kick while in the womb? And it was all because a bunch of scientists decided it's best for you to deal with that emotional wreckage so their people didn't have to deal with your ancestors' stupidity? The worst part is that it really was the merciful route. We're not krogan, we don't spawn whole nests. But what if Salarians had planned a version of the genophage on humans as well during the First Contact War? Would we say it's fair since humanity has a reputation for aggression? Curing the genophage was really uncomfortable, given the codex entries of colonized worlds given to krogan in the past that had degenerated into a waste pit because they were too conflict orientated instead of consolidating resources. It was also what was giving Wrex his leverage over other krogan since cooperation was only working because they couldn't resort to the hordes of the past. ME3 threw that all out and made it an issue of extinction (which was false) versus krogan rebellions (also unlikely). Given the war and the need for ground troops, it seemed easier to deal with krogans later than Reapers now. Too bad it didn't undermine Wrex's hold, I was hoping it'd be a message of learning to cooperate for the krogan instead of beating their heads over a cure. The upside at least for curing the genophage is that even if the krogan attempted something stupid they: 1. Have no ships to start trouble for some time so everyone will be able to respond quickly 2. Mordin DID say it's far easier to sterilize them than create another genophage... So there were backup plans for a cured Genophage! Win-win!
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ScumbagShepurd
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Shaking spear, trolling OP, burying Brad.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ScumbagShepurd on Aug 19, 2016 14:14:56 GMT
I see no problem here, really. 1. Question of morality. No one should suffer from what they ancestors did 1000 years ago. That's just wrong. 2. Question of practicality. Krogan "danger" is overrated. In 2186, the Krogans pose no threat to the galaxy. The Citadel Council has the upper hand over krogans: the Citadel races have huge navies, effective spy networks, advanced economies and real scientists. Krogans won't be able to do any harm to the galaxy for decades and if they try to, they'll be decimated. It would be basically "machine guns vs sticks" kind of war. So there is only one reason to not cure the genophage: choosing salarian support over krogan support. The game did a really poor job trying to convince me those krogan barbarians could offer as much help as the salarians could with all their might and power and science. I don't buy it. But I still choose to cure the genophage 'cause I'm a little goodie two-shoes
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Post by Vortex13 on Aug 19, 2016 14:55:37 GMT
But that's the thing, the Genophage isn't some ancient curse thrown on the antediluvian Krogan for reasons unknown. Many of the Krogan alive currently are veterans of the Rebellions, or at the very least, one generation removed from it. Heck, the Patriarch on Omega is a veteran of the Rachni Wars, and he's still remarkably spry for his age. One thousand years is a long time for the rest of the galaxy and the other shorter lived species, but for the majority of the Krogan population, they are the same people that took part in the Rebellions.
The Rebellions, which saw the Krogan launch an unprovoked attack on their allies, despite numerous attempts at negotiation, and lead to such acts as Krogan hunting down and eating Salarian civilians, to dropping several asteroids on Turian garden worlds; a species that wasn't even apart of the governmental body that the Krogan were rebelling against. The Genophage was actually a mercy considering the alternative, and a good portion of the population is still alive from when this 'punishment' was enacted, and in many cases, were guilty of the crimes that warranted such punishment. What's more, the Krogan, as a whole, have not demonstrated that they are willing to live alongside the rest of the galaxy, nor have they tried to improve themselves instead always looking for a handout to help them out of their woes.
Characters like Wrex say that the Krogan should be given a second chance, that they should be allowed to forge their own path, but he's real quick to damn the last surviving Rachni Queen to a painful and violent death based on the actions of her ancestors. How can I be expected to show the Krogan clemency when they won't do the same? Heck, why should I consider a species like the Rachni worth extinction compared to a species, that as a whole, approached disagreements with guns drawn?
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Post by CrutchCricket on Aug 19, 2016 15:09:04 GMT
Alright, here's one of the posts I found from the BSN on this issue. I was replying to someone so the arrangement may be weird, but the main points are there.
Edit: and lol, ninja'd while I was searching through old posts. Oh well.
The genophage adjusted fertility rates. Unadjusted, krogan were spawning by the thousands. In the past their natural environment balanced this out since they were also dying by the thousands. Uplifting and giving them modern tech is what allowed them to overpopulate into horde mode and what made them a threat in the Rebellions.
But now they have absolutely zero infrastructure (Tuchanka was a wasteland even before the war) and zero capacity to build one on their own... and now they're back to potentially spawning by the thousands, but this time on a nigh-dead rock. Far from the unilateral save most people think the genophage cure is, if the krogan were to continue in their ways of old, Shepard just doomed their race to a slow starvation. And no one's going to make the mistake of "uplifting" the krogan this time. Especially not after the Reapers where no one but the quarians would have much to spare.
Going beyond that though, I think curing the genophage is the natural step in the arc because it's literally letting natural order back at the helm. In ME2 Mordin says the real problem with the uplifting is the krogan weren't ready. The tech advancement was artificially inserted and it messed with their natural evolution. The genophage on the other hand was a punitive measure but also it only dealt with the symptoms. Curing it at this time takes us back to the root of the problem- can the krogan "grow up" enough to function at the galactic level? And from a pure survivalist standpoint, it's a test. Can they consciously manage their number so as to not lead to their extinction?
In a nutshell I don't think it's much of a debate since the strongest point for the opposition- fear of Rebellions 2.0, simply can't happen with the current details of the situation. And going with the themes of self-determination, it's time for the krogan to choose their own future: peaceful coexistence and advancement, or extinction.
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Join RadLounge!!! Go to: radlounge.boards.net
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Post by HYR on Aug 19, 2016 15:17:04 GMT
Cured. I had Wrex king, and Eve alive, so the circumstances looked as favorable as they could get. Also, having Mordin himself give it his approval gave the cure some credibility (although there could be something said about his eagerness to atone). It was awfully tempting, I admit, to turn my back on them for political gain, but that also felt like turning back on all the progress that I myself contributed to and thus did not feel right. So, cure it is.
That said, I admire the SOBs that sabotaged. That, admittedly, is probably the more logical decision.
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Post by Ieldra on Aug 19, 2016 16:15:50 GMT
Can you elaborate on that original storyline? Sounds interesting... Well, it was just what was in ME2. Weekes and Kindregan wrote Tuchanka in 2.. Weekes mostly wrote the Mordin stuf, but Kindregan wrote the Krogans. Male Shaman was much like Okeer, in thinking that it was "good" to destroy themselves. lol. They believed that the Krogan will only be worthy of glory if they endured hardship. He was pushing "quality over quanity" more like. And if you disagreed with him, he's sad. "I thought you of all aliens would understand." Once he was gone, Weekes just made everything about the Genophage. On a sidenote, I feel like he did this to Jack too. She was also Kindregan's character, but when he left, Weekes started telling people to just kill her. He just didn't care about any of the big picture or responsibility to overall story. At the same, he wrote his own character romance (Tali) in an idealized way. He just seems petty to me. And I think it's why the Genophage story might've suffered. He just likes his own stuff. It is my impression that Weekes mostly cares about the character-related stuff, and less about the big picture. It's all about emotion and morals for him. That's why I've repeatedly said I likely won't like the direction in which he'll take Dragon Age, but then, maybe he'll get more versatile as the project head. His books are well-written, certainly much better than most video-game-inspired books I know. That gives me some hope. As for the genophage, given the numbers involved - increasing krogan fertility by a factor of 1000 - I consider it insane to cure it. Had there been an option to mitigate it, lessen its effectiveness, then I might've done it. As for it being evil, I do not believe in the right to have as many children as you want. If there was a genophage to limit human fertility on Earth to 3 per woman, I would push the button.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 19, 2016 16:34:47 GMT
So there is only one reason to not cure the genophage: choosing salarian support over krogan support. The game did a really poor job trying to convince me those krogan barbarians could offer as much help as the salarians could with all their might and power and science. I don't buy it. That was the odd part about Salarian help. The Dalatrass had tried to do that to begin with, and promptly got ganged up on by Wrex/Wreav, Victus, and Shepard. Trying to withhold help in a war only blew up in her face. So trying it again after not getting her way...goes unanswered after the war? It's just not what I expected from the Salarians. I was expecting subtlety, contorted, elaborate plans. I thought the Dalatrass was going to say,"I know what you're all going to say, and I agree we need to do something about the Reapers. Let me send my handpicked team of specialists to handle the cure for you (who will no doubt sabotage it)" There. She preempted Shepard, and now Shep has to agree with her terms controlling the cure or look like a paranoid dolt when she's giving them what they asked for. The most Shep can do is accompany them with Mordin, plan to sabotage the cure can be figured out by Mordin/Padok, now you have a choice: kill the team of Salarians who are wearing cameras connected to their colonies and homeworld as witnesses or let them finish. If Shepard kills them, they look like villains to the Salarians, Salarians have a public excuse to stay reluctant to help. Let them live and Salarians match what the Krogan refuse to do.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 19, 2016 17:31:14 GMT
It is my impression that Weekes mostly cares about the character-related stuff, and less about the big picture. It's all about emotion and morals for him. That's why I've repeatedly said I likely won't like the direction in which he'll take Dragon Age, but then, maybe he'll get more versatile as the project head. His books are well-written, certainly much better than most video-game-inspired books I know. That gives me some hope. As for the genophage, given the numbers involved - increasing krogan fertility by a factor of 1000 - I consider it insane to cure it. Had there been an option to mitigate it, lessen its effectiveness, then I might've done it. As for it being evil, I do not believe in the right to have as many children as you want. If there was a genophage to limit human fertility on Earth to 3 per woman, I would push the button. If it was just a matter of each and every woman would only be able to have 3 healthy kids, I'd agree with you. The genophage gives me the impression that it's the lucky mother who can birth live kids while all the rest have to birth dead ones. That would be awful. Especially since it's a choice that was taken away from them.
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Post by Vortex13 on Aug 19, 2016 17:36:22 GMT
It's a tough situation granted, though dead babies isn't really anything new to the Krogan if we look at them prior to uplift. If their birthrates needed to be that high to just compensate for the environment they evolved in, then we would be seeing way more dead kids than Genophage ever caused.
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
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Post by melbella on Aug 20, 2016 2:23:55 GMT
It is my impression that Weekes mostly cares about the character-related stuff, and less about the big picture. It's all about emotion and morals for him. That's why I've repeatedly said I likely won't like the direction in which he'll take Dragon Age, but then, maybe he'll get more versatile as the project head. His books are well-written, certainly much better than most video-game-inspired books I know. That gives me some hope. As for the genophage, given the numbers involved - increasing krogan fertility by a factor of 1000 - I consider it insane to cure it. Had there been an option to mitigate it, lessen its effectiveness, then I might've done it. As for it being evil, I do not believe in the right to have as many children as you want. If there was a genophage to limit human fertility on Earth to 3 per woman, I would push the button. Just wondering....have you read Dan Brown's Inferno (soon to be a movie, I understand)? The end result definitely felt like Genophage: Earth-style.
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Post by Ieldra on Aug 20, 2016 5:47:50 GMT
It is my impression that Weekes mostly cares about the character-related stuff, and less about the big picture. It's all about emotion and morals for him. That's why I've repeatedly said I likely won't like the direction in which he'll take Dragon Age, but then, maybe he'll get more versatile as the project head. His books are well-written, certainly much better than most video-game-inspired books I know. That gives me some hope. As for the genophage, given the numbers involved - increasing krogan fertility by a factor of 1000 - I consider it insane to cure it. Had there been an option to mitigate it, lessen its effectiveness, then I might've done it. As for it being evil, I do not believe in the right to have as many children as you want. If there was a genophage to limit human fertility on Earth to 3 per woman, I would push the button. Just wondering....have you read Dan Brown's Inferno (soon to be a movie, I understand)? The end result definitely felt like Genophage: Earth-style. No, I haven't. His stories have potential, but his writing style is repetitive and boring. I'll look out for the movie - thanks for the info.
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