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Post by laxian on Mar 15, 2017 16:35:54 GMT
I've just watched (well, I am almost done...45 minutes of 49 minutes) the opening mission gameplay from IGN (note: Damned, the guy they have playing seems to hate skills, he doesn't use his one skill he has at that point often and he ignores side stuff and scanning opportunities...damned, that's not how you should play an RPG IMHO, but I am getting off track here!) and I noticed that both Cora and Liam have damned issues!
Cora seems a cold bitch (or at least she's too pragmatic for my taste), she tells you to leave the missing guy behind if you haven't looked for him before going to the shuttle they've been reparing (damned Cora, that's now how you do things! Leave no man behind and all that! Unless it's something like Virimire (a total emergency, meaning you can't save everybody - but otherwise? NO! TOTALLY NOT ACCETABLE, CORA!))
Liam seems trigger happy and psychotic (sure he's under stress and has only had civilian training (police) instead of military, but shooting corpses (kind of disrespectful, too!) just because you are fucking pissed off? Damned man, CHILL OUT LIAM!)
Damned, I know I've not seen much of either character, but so far:
I don't want either on my team (I will still not throw them out if given the chance...don't want to lock myself out of content, but still damned!)
Well, what do you guys think?
greetings LAX ps: I hope I can ask this here (it contains spoilers after all, that's why I probably should not post this in the characters folder!)
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ryerye17
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Post by ryerye17 on Mar 15, 2017 16:44:02 GMT
Are you sure you're not thinking of EuroGamer? The EuroGamer was stream was painful as they talked too much and, yes, ignored sidequest. The IGN stream actually did all the sidequests.
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Post by laxian on Mar 15, 2017 16:53:20 GMT
IGN - but yeah, others showed it as well (and some made characters that make me think either the one playing is some damned crazy person or they've raided the psych- or drug-addict-ward to find a role model for their character (a mix of emo-, suicidal- and punk-butch-lesbian was the worst looking I found...damned is beautiful totally out of fashion these days? I don't get it, characters many people make are painful to watch )) greetings LAX ps: Still, crazy squaddies - their ideals and behavior are troubling IMHO!
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ryerye17
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Post by ryerye17 on Mar 15, 2017 17:08:07 GMT
Oh! I guess they had multiple streams. The one I saw form IGN was different
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Post by luke on Mar 15, 2017 17:50:11 GMT
Cora is just highly pragmatic; she's a career soldier who's fought alongside Asari Commandos, some of the best warriors in the galaxy. Therefore she operates in a different way to civilians. She has to be pragmatic to get the job done.
As for Liam, I wouldn't say he's "psychotic" for shooting corpses. After all, those corpses belonged to an alien species that beat and killed their squad-mates on-sight, even when they surrendered. Why would he care about disrespecting them? From what I've seen, Liam looks really bro. I can't wait to see how he develops.
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Post by rahavan on Mar 15, 2017 19:00:23 GMT
I've just watched (well, I am almost done...45 minutes of 49 minutes) the opening mission gameplay from IGN (note: Damned, the guy they have playing seems to hate skills, he doesn't use his one skill he has at that point often and he ignores side stuff and scanning opportunities...damned, that's not how you should play an RPG IMHO, but I am getting off track here!) and I noticed that both Cora and Liam have damned issues! Cora seems a cold bitch (or at least she's too pragmatic for my taste), she tells you to leave the missing guy behind if you haven't looked for him before going to the shuttle they've been reparing (damned Cora, that's now how you do things! Leave no man behind and all that! Unless it's something like Virimire (a total emergency, meaning you can't save everybody - but otherwise? NO! TOTALLY NOT ACCETABLE, CORA!)) Liam seems trigger happy and psychotic (sure he's under stress and has only had civilian training (police) instead of military, but shooting corpses (kind of disrespectful, too!) just because you are fucking pissed off? Damned man, CHILL OUT LIAM!) Damned, I know I've not seen much of either character, but so far: I don't want either on my team (I will still not throw them out if given the chance...don't want to lock myself out of content, but still damned!) Well, what do you guys think? greetings LAX ps: I hope I can ask this here (it contains spoilers after all, that's why I probably should not post this in the characters folder!) Okay this might seem harsh but have you ever been in the situation where lives are on the line? You are more concerned with getting yourself and others out of the situation alive. Liam acts perfectly normal and shooting corpses isn't disrespectful, they're dead they don't feel shit. Cora is more up to opinion but shes not a marine so she likely doesn't have a no man left behind motto. Maybe I'm too cold of a person but everything I saw there was perfectly acceptable.
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Post by sil on Mar 15, 2017 22:25:31 GMT
From what little I've seen I want to throw them all out the airlock.
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rahavan
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Post by rahavan on Mar 16, 2017 4:23:47 GMT
From what little I've seen I want to throw them all out the airlock. Calm down there Javik
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SwobyJ
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 16, 2017 8:30:58 GMT
You know what I would love but probably won't happen?
If things in the first half get all hopeful and friendly early with the Pathfinder and their shipmates.
But by the end of the game we see crucial flaws with the Pathfinder and some seriously cracking flaws in the shipmates. That as opposed to MET's dangerous misfits that gain unity, this is a unified cause that takes in the unstable.
We end the game being still OK enough with the group but DLC would push this concept and we'll end up only glad as hell to move onto another game that, while it may include Ryders as characters, will have us no longer as the Pathfinder.
So yeah this would include stuff like Cora being kinda disturbingly pragmatic and Liam having something about him that makes him want 'new beginnings' a bit too much..
I can imagine. Could be cool and has been a fun headcanon as I watch footage. Things are a bit too shiny and optimistic.... imo.
Only human...
EDIT: To be clear, I think all the examples in this thread are perfectly understandable. I'm talking more about a general characterization development over the course of the game. I don't think they'd ever want us to hate all the characters and consider the Initiative worthless. More nuance than that. And its just a headcanon, again.
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Post by chancemace on Mar 16, 2017 11:20:58 GMT
IGN - but yeah, others showed it as well (and some made characters that make me think either the one playing is some damned crazy person or they've raided the psych- or drug-addict-ward to find a role model for their character (a mix of emo-, suicidal- and punk-butch-lesbian was the worst looking I found...damned is beautiful totally out of fashion these days? I don't get it, characters many people make are painful to watch )) greetings LAX ps: Still, crazy squaddies - their ideals and behavior are troubling IMHO! Hey, for many of us punk-butch-lesbian is loveliness defined. Beauty isn't just contained in your eye, objective one. I mean one is more trained soldier in a dangerous situation. In realistic situations, she made a pragmatic call. Liam was off the cuff, but get that he was angry for losing someone, if he did it without that, I'd agree psychotic, but he's angry over a lot of stuff and his "story" seems to be about an idealist coming to grips with reality, so not necessarily psychotic just emotional.
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Post by taliesyn on Mar 17, 2017 0:25:39 GMT
Putting a check round into a body is SOP in unknown situations, especially when faced with an enemy that is know to "play dead" until your back is turned. Shooting or mutilating an obviously dead enemy is a WAR CRIME. And yes, I'm a combat veteran with 21 years in the US Army so I do know what I'm talking about.
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Post by indrexu on Mar 17, 2017 0:35:20 GMT
Putting a check round into a body is SOP in unknown situations, especially when faced with an enemy that is know to "play dead" until your back is turned. Shooting or mutilating an obviously dead enemy is a WAR CRIME. And yes, I'm a combat veteran with 21 years in the US Army so I do know what I'm talking about. Yes. In fact, the bar for respectful treatment of enemy dead is very high. There have been war crimes convictions for refusing to allow the burial of enemy dead, let alone deliberate mutilation or using enemy corpses to vent one's emotions.
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Post by rahavan on Mar 17, 2017 13:32:06 GMT
Putting a check round into a body is SOP in unknown situations, especially when faced with an enemy that is know to "play dead" until your back is turned. Shooting or mutilating an obviously dead enemy is a WAR CRIME. And yes, I'm a combat veteran with 21 years in the US Army so I do know what I'm talking about. Yes. In fact, the bar for respectful treatment of enemy dead is very high. There have been war crimes convictions for refusing to allow the burial of enemy dead, let alone deliberate mutilation or using enemy corpses to vent one's emotions. Somehow I have the feeling the Kett won't be able to file a case or that they would care.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 17, 2017 14:26:44 GMT
Somehow I have the feeling the Kett won't be able to file a case or that they would care. Yeah, given that we've seen them shoot prisoners who were trying to surrender, as well as later kidnap, torture and attack civilian outposts on Eos, it's not like the laws of war are something the Kett are too concerned with following. Not that it excuses Liam's behaviour, which it is why it's good that both Cora and Ryder can immediately call him out on it. I like Liam, but it is a bit worrying that someone who was both a cop and specialised in crisis response of all things, could so quickly lose his temper and cool in an actual friggin' crisis.
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Post by riou on Mar 17, 2017 15:26:42 GMT
Somehow I have the feeling the Kett won't be able to file a case or that they would care. Yeah, given that we've seen them shoot prisoners who were trying to surrender, as well as later kidnap, torture and attack civilian outposts on Eos, it's not like the laws of war are something the Kett are too concerned with following. Not that it excuses Liam's behaviour, which it is why it's good that both Cora and Ryder can immediately call him out on it. I like Liam, but it is a bit worrying that someone who was both a cop and specialised in crisis response of all things, could so quickly lose his temper and cool in an actual friggin' crisis.Because no amount of crisis response prepares you for that.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 17, 2017 15:32:10 GMT
Shooting or mutilating an obviously dead enemy is a WAR CRIME. And yes, I'm a combat veteran with 21 years in the US Army so I do know what I'm talking about. I agree. And thank you for your service.
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Post by ceryse on Mar 17, 2017 18:49:01 GMT
That scene with Liam was actually the breaking point for me with his character, honestly. Outside of that I'd found him marginally annoying and a bit bland. After that my only thought was; "Yeah.. he's staying on the ship". Sadly, that only leaves me with Cora, Vetra, Drak and maybe Jaal (his previews have left me very 'meh' on him) as companions. Peebee is too annoying and Liam is a guy I wouldn't trust to put a pencil away properly with his issues.
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SwobyJ
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 17, 2017 23:13:46 GMT
I like Liam (as a character) even more from this.
I wanna know what makes him his way.
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Post by taliesyn on Mar 18, 2017 3:59:29 GMT
Yes. In fact, the bar for respectful treatment of enemy dead is very high. There have been war crimes convictions for refusing to allow the burial of enemy dead, let alone deliberate mutilation or using enemy corpses to vent one's emotions. Somehow I have the feeling the Kett won't be able to file a case or that they would care. The point isn't to whine when others act like savages. The point is to give us a moral framework within which to operate when forced into horribly violent situations.
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Post by nickles on Mar 18, 2017 4:33:25 GMT
I played through the first mission twice and never left Greer behind before meeting Cora -- but I'm more willing to defer to her behavior as being a situation where a character's motivations were effected by gameplay/storytelling requirements. Try heading the opposite direction of where Cora and Alec tell you to go? The lack of erected lightning rods leave you being zapped constantly. It's a bit of annoying railroading, sure, but with the fact that you're being hit by lightning in mind, Cora's feelings are completely understandable. Alec's message cuts off with him being spotted, and you're always going to go for the guy in immediate danger who you have a beat on as opposed to the guy who's MIA.
Liam's not psychotic. The guy was a cop, then a search and rescue.. er. He signed on to be a scout in a new galaxy; while he's talented, the guy isn't some hardened soldier. He was close with the other Pathfinders and knew them a little better than Scott/Sara. At least, it comes off that way. He watched one of his friends being beaten over the head, and after seeing another being shot in cold blood as he surrendered, he suffers a meltdown. He was emotional on top of an already high stress situation. His feelings got the better of him, but it's a fairly natural response for a human who perhaps isn't prepared or experienced in dealing with that kind of loss.
Also, pfft, why would you skip the sidequests? Greer is literally in a cave right next to the pass that leads to Cora.
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Post by ProbeAway on Mar 18, 2017 22:33:34 GMT
I didn't leave Greer behind, but isn't Cora telling you to move because Alec is in danger? ie it's a choice between the Pathfinder and Greer? There's nothing cold about that, it's just making a tough choice in a shitty situation.
I also think people are being a bit rough on Liam. Everything has just gone to hell and he's peaking out. I'm not excusing shooting a corpse but he's angry and terrified. A bit of police training doesn't suddenly make you calm in a totally extreme situation.
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