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Post by taliesyn on Mar 17, 2017 12:20:14 GMT
I was thinking back on the situation shortly after ME3 came out. The various review sites has given the game glowing reviews, 98%, "a glowing achievement" "totally awesome!" yada yada yada.... Then the real people started to post what the game was really like. The ending has overshadowed most of the other problems the game had but there were a lot. Remember all the graphic glitches? How about when you hugged someone and you clipped into their sprite and saw that they were hollow inside? Anyway I could talk about the ME3 problems for hours the point is people started to really get down on the review sites and personalities. "They give the reviews they get paid to give" "All the reviews are rigged" again yada yada yada...
Based on the comments made by former reviewers that left the field during that time, it's pretty clear that they do in fact give reviews based on the revenue spent by the game company. If it's explicit or implicit I don't know and don't care. What does matter is a lot of sites began shedding viewers at a significant rate.
So now in an attempt to convince people that they are non-biased they are looking for every little excuse to take a shot at MEA in an attempt to regain some of their lost credibility.
I mean, I expect forumites to blow every little thing out of proportion - that's what forumites do! But I would expect better from people whom are supposedly professionals doing a job.
Anyway, again like ME3, I don't think we will have a accurate review of this game until "real people" have finished a play through and begin posting their opinions.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Mar 17, 2017 12:23:22 GMT
You're one of those people, uh? ME3's score is well earned. Let it go. It's been five years. There's no conspiracy act going on here.
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Post by wolfsite on Mar 17, 2017 12:28:06 GMT
You're one of those people, uh? ME3's score is well earned. Let it go. It's been five years. You are asking for way too much from some people.
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Post by PillarBiter on Mar 17, 2017 12:28:41 GMT
If they give it good grades, they're paid for it.
If they give it bad grades, they have a stick up their bum.
Welcome to the internet where forming your own opinion is forbidden.
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Post by wolfsite on Mar 17, 2017 12:29:57 GMT
If you want Graphical Glitches
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Post by taliesyn on Mar 17, 2017 12:35:10 GMT
You're one of those people, uh? ME3's score is well earned. Let it go. It's been five years. There's no conspiracy act going on here. Try reading what I actually wrote. If the difference between conspiracy and herd mentality is too hard for you understand get someone to explain it to you.
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Post by degrees on Mar 17, 2017 12:35:54 GMT
If you want Graphical Glitches What is that from Final Fantasy? Anyway what is a professional reviewer, Someone who gets paid for their opinion right?
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Post by leonick on Mar 17, 2017 12:38:44 GMT
If you want Graphical Glitches <snip> What is that from Final Fantasy? Anyway what is a professional reviewer, Someone who gets paid for their opinion right? Assassin's Creed Unity if I'm not mistaken. I never experience any of them but the game had some ridiculous graphical glitches at launch (some severe performance issues too).
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Post by DannyC_pt on Mar 17, 2017 12:41:06 GMT
It might be a little more complicated than that.
Take a look at Mass Effect 3 as a great example of that complexity. Do that exercise for yourself. Imagine that you're judging the game as a professional reviewer, as assertive as possible. You take everything into consideration, story, structure, conceptual design, gameplay, mechanics, sound, music, and how it all fits together. How would you judge ME3.
Now try to analyze it as a gamer, as a fan. It's a completely different approach. Sure, as a gamer, we can also judge the game based on all those artistic and technical factors. But the feeling, the atmosphere, takes first stage. And that ending, inevitably, contaminated our judgment of it.
As a game, ME3, with all its merits and its flaws, is a good game. If you accept it for what it is, there's a lot of fun to be had from it.
But at the time, that disastrous (imo) ending, shattered it all. It truly did. And then, the entire game was judged with brutal scrutiny.
The "professional review" issue is also interesting and complex.
First, it's true, msm gaming sites are sensitive to their sponsors. So if a big publisher sponsors a certain site, that site will be careful in the way it reviews the publisher's products. Sponsors are the client, not us, gamers and viewers. We're the product.
Now imagine you're a professional reviewer. You work on a gaming site, and you start gaining visibility as a reviewer.
PR folks will want to establish a good relation with you, especially AAA Publisher PR. And so you may gain access to early previews, and interviews with the developers. You then start getting invites to venues, paid travels and hotel room. You are awarded with gifts. You have access into the industry, and that access gives you a leverage as a journalist, because you can go places others can't.
Now, imagine, the time has come for you to review a big title from a big publisher you have a great relationship with. If the title is good-not-great, you may be okay with being slightly over-excited about it, and give it a great score. Why the hell not.
But imagine this is a big expensive game, that sucks. What do you do. You write a brutally honest review - and risk being excluded from the club, with all that implies. Or you whistle into the air, and make it look better than it actually is, writing a dishonest piece, from a customer perspective?
Interesting, right? That's the problem: a structural issue with the social dimension of mainstream media.
And that's also why YouTubers (with all their flaws, we know) have risen and are now one of the most important voices for gamers. YouTubers have also learned from past mistakes, and, now, we probably rely more on them than on main gaming sites. Sites are for news and previews. But when it comes to real advice, you want a gamers opinion first.
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Post by wolfsite on Mar 17, 2017 12:42:10 GMT
If you want Graphical Glitches What is that from Final Fantasy? Anyway what is a professional reviewer, Someone who gets paid for their opinion right? That is from Assassin's Creed Unity. Yes Professional reviewers are paid, but they are paid by there employer who is independent of the game studios so they can't influence the score. In this day and age it is rather pointless to pay people for review scores at that stuff normally becomes public knowledge quite easily in this day and age meaning it would do more harm than good. Look at all the publishers that got caught paying people off on Steam for positive reviews on Steam and Green Light. Hell years ago Square Enix was caught for this with Kane & Lynch 2.
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Post by degrees on Mar 17, 2017 12:49:49 GMT
What is that from Final Fantasy? Anyway what is a professional reviewer, Someone who gets paid for their opinion right? That is from Assassin's Creed Unity. Yes Professional reviewers are paid, but they are paid by there employer who is independent of the game studios so they can't influence the score. In this day and age it is rather pointless to pay people for review scores at that stuff normally becomes public knowledge quite easily in this day and age meaning it would do more harm than good. Look at all the publishers that got caught paying people off on Steam for positive reviews on Steam and Green Light. Hell years ago Square Enix was caught for this with Kane & Lynch 2. I was kind of saying that their opinion is no different to ours really only difference is they're paid to give opinions. I didn't mean they were getting paid to give positive feedback or anything.
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Post by wolfsite on Mar 17, 2017 12:52:08 GMT
That is from Assassin's Creed Unity. Yes Professional reviewers are paid, but they are paid by there employer who is independent of the game studios so they can't influence the score. In this day and age it is rather pointless to pay people for review scores at that stuff normally becomes public knowledge quite easily in this day and age meaning it would do more harm than good. Look at all the publishers that got caught paying people off on Steam for positive reviews on Steam and Green Light. Hell years ago Square Enix was caught for this with Kane & Lynch 2. I was kind of saying that their opinion is no different to ours really only difference is they're paid to give opinions. I didn't mean they were getting paid to give positive feedback or anything. Honestly the opinion that should matter is your own. There will be people that don't like things that you do and and that is fine and vise versa, someone liking/not liking something should not affect how you feel about something.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Mar 17, 2017 13:05:07 GMT
You're one of those people, uh? ME3's score is well earned. Let it go. It's been five years. There's no conspiracy act going on here. Try reading what I actually wrote. If the difference between conspiracy and herd mentality is too hard for you understand get someone to explain it to you. "Anyway, again like ME3, I don't think we will have a accurate review of this game until "real people" have finished a play through and begin posting their opinions" Who would be those real people, you? Not the critics then?
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Post by taliesyn on Mar 18, 2017 3:53:19 GMT
Try reading what I actually wrote. If the difference between conspiracy and herd mentality is too hard for you understand get someone to explain it to you. "Anyway, again like ME3, I don't think we will have a accurate review of this game until "real people" have finished a play through and begin posting their opinions" Who would be those real people, you? Not the critics then? Well, someone like you actually. Someone on a message board whom doesn't earn their daily bread cranking our video game content.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 18, 2017 4:10:38 GMT
If you want Graphical Glitches Christ on a cracker. Imagine running into this in a dark alley.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 18, 2017 4:13:08 GMT
If you read the full review almost always it gives you a much better insight into what the reviews were thinking for there are plenty of reviews that will mention things that they saw wrong with the game, but surprisingly they are able to look past those faults even if people on the internet cannot. They will just mention those things in the full written review and don't give a game 0/10 like the majority of the internet would.
After seeing the controversy over Jim Sterling's review of Breath of the Wild where he kept saying he liked the game, but it had faults for him and gave it a seven out of ten and the way the internet reacted because of that which included death threads, DDoS attacks, attempts to hijack his social media and website, and probably more things because he dared to give a game he liked, but didn't love seven out of ten.
Edit: Softened my response.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 18, 2017 4:15:13 GMT
If you want Graphical Glitches Christ on a cracker. Imagine running into this in a dark alley. Yeah, but according to the internet it probably isn't as bad as what they did with Mass Effect: Andromeda. My favorite launch bug with Unity was the haystack that is near a spot you end a story mission and you couldn't exit the bale of hay. You needed to reload a save and hopefully find another way down.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2017 4:28:19 GMT
If you want Graphical Glitches Christ on a cracker. Imagine running into this in a dark alley. AC Unity had like a 7gb patch and the game was still a mess. It sold 4 million copies on PS4 for f sake, and its a 70 on Metacritic. I mean if Andromeda is somehow rated lower than this and has worse sales i will question everything i know.
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Post by midasear on Mar 18, 2017 4:31:52 GMT
Try reading what I actually wrote. If the difference between conspiracy and herd mentality is too hard for you understand get someone to explain it to you. "Anyway, again like ME3, I don't think we will have a accurate review of this game until "real people" have finished a play through and begin posting their opinions" Who would be those real people, you? Not the critics then? Game critics rarely finish a big RPG or open world game before writing a first review. They just do not have the time. They are all in a rush to hit deadlines that fall a couple days after they receive their copy of the game. If they've spent 7-12 hours with a game, they've spent a LOT of time with it. But fans of this particular genre know that usually just scratches the surface. So for this sort of game, genuinely accurate reviews that encompass the experience of the entire game are not easy to find. And critics, in any medium, just don't experience stuff the way ordinary fans do. I'm what publisher's marketing departments consider a hardcore gamer. I buy over 20 games a year (easily) and spend significant amounts of time on roughly a half-dozen "new" titles, and a similar amount of time on "old" titles. And I've been doing this a long time. I can bring a large frame of reference to bear when judging a game. But for me this is all just for fun. Reviewers are clobbered with covering well over a half dozen of these things a month, a lot of them appallingly bad. And they have to crank out some coherent pages of prose describing each of them. On a deadline. For low pay. It MUST drain a lot of the fun out of it. IF they get to spend 8 or so hours in a game that is actually FUN, its flaws are probably pretty forgiveable as long as they remember to mention them. They also tend see things I might consider FUN about 10 times as often, and think of it as cliched cookie-cutter same-old same-old. Plus, they review games. Life has got to be an uphill struggle. Do you think any of them has a mom in the retirement community bragging to her neighbor that "My son reviews video games for a living! We are SO proud." That's got to affect their attitude sometimes.
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Post by slimgrin on Mar 18, 2017 4:36:44 GMT
If you want Graphical Glitches Christ on a cracker. Imagine running into this in a dark alley.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 18, 2017 4:39:24 GMT
In my experience fan reviews are essentially worthless because I have no way to sort the quality of the fans. Not just for games, for anything. I'm much more likely to get useful input from a critic, particularly one from one of the more elite publications. Harder to apply that strategy to gaming, though I generally trust the A.V Club guys.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 18, 2017 5:14:47 GMT
In my experience fan reviews are essentially worthless because I have no way to sort the quality of the fans. Not just for games, for anything. I'm much more likely to get useful input from a critic, particularly one from one of the more elite publications. Harder to apply that strategy to gaming, though I generally trust the A.V Club guys. I don't trust reviews from anyone, I might find a reviewer or website that I share my tastes with and can find enjoyment in the same things I do. I also agree about "fan reviews" frankly there is no subjectivity from them and I think places like Metacritic or how people react to review they don't like demonstrate that perfectly for the amount of rage over a review they don't agree with is very depressing for people are no longer allowed to have different opinions on the internet anymore, we all must be Borg and think the same or we are bad.
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Post by stealthfox94 on Mar 18, 2017 5:15:57 GMT
Seems like most YouTubers liked ME3 despite its ending.
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Post by worsin on Mar 18, 2017 5:20:41 GMT
Review sites are about as non-biased as CNN
If you want a good review...Angry Joe is your man.
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Post by ProbeAway on Mar 18, 2017 5:49:38 GMT
Seems like most YouTubers liked ME3 despite its ending. Now that MEA is out and they have something else to whine about, ME3 is suddenly being put up on a pedestal to prove how far backwards Bioware's gone. It's ridiculous. Gamers as a group are slow to forgive but quick to forget.
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