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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2017 23:25:15 GMT
i mean it's pretty simple: time dilation gives more time for off-host inputs to be registered and take part of the host's simulation. they would otherwise mostly be invalidated (less attacks/dodges would be registered). it just gives more control to off-host players under heavy lag i guess. Honestly, I believe there might be more to it than that and we simply don't know the details of their network configuration to make a definite assertion yet. Until we're given more information/details about their network implementation or until battlenonsense does his network analysis, we're honestly just left guessing. Would not pass around any speculation as fact at this point though since it's far too early to do that and we don't need to spread damaging misinformation. It's more of a wait and see situation honestly. i wrote this off the top of my head while thinking about lag in DAIMP. in daimp, you would dodge (say with combat roll), but that would only be visible client-side because the dodge input didn't have time to reach the host / you therefore got hit on the host's side. so you'd immediately rubberband back after finishing the dodge animation. theres probably more to it, but imo that makes sense to me. interested in what that other guy has to say though.
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Post by s0ulbearer on Mar 19, 2017 0:07:50 GMT
I have yet to encounter this on Xbox, Is this a bad pc port problem or have I just been really lucky?
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Post by Pearl on Mar 19, 2017 0:16:14 GMT
Battlenonsense has also stated that he'll get around to doing a network analysis of me:a mp so I guess we'll have to wait until then to get further details on the network implementation as a whole. I'm honestly concerned as to what he'll find with the scale of issues that people have been reporting so far. I was wondering if he'd get enough requests to cover Andromeda. I eagerly await his findings, whatever the results may be. Link to his channel for anyone not familiar with him.
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Post by akots on Mar 19, 2017 1:45:48 GMT
I'll take time dilation or whatever over region lock anytime every time. So far, my lag has been mostly reasonable during peak hours on East Coast.
But it'd be nice if Battlenonsense can figure it out.
Keep in mind that despite DAIMP was completely and thoroughly region-locked, it did not help much with overall lag and glitches. IMO, so far, MEA is way better than DAI was in the beginning.
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Post by evosigma on Mar 19, 2017 2:18:32 GMT
I'll take time dilation or whatever over region lock anytime every time. So far, my lag has been mostly reasonable during peak hours on East Coast. But it'd be nice if Battlenonsense can figure it out. Keep in mind that despite DAIMP was completely and thoroughly region-locked, it did not help much with overall lag and glitches. IMO, so far, MEA is way better than DAI was in the beginning. So... You're totally okay with this then. The game becomes near unplayable...
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Post by MPApr2012 on Mar 19, 2017 2:58:19 GMT
By all accounts and reports, this time dilation is ONLY experienced by the host. There have been multiple posts about it here and over at the me co-op subreddit. I also submitted a bug report about it at the ea answer website (for whatever good that will do) if the devs actually use it for feedback. It's all so baffling since this wasn't an issue in me3mp and is a newly introduced bug (hope to god it's not a feature) from moving over to frostbite. Battlenonsense has also stated that he'll get around to doing a network analysis of me:a mp so I guess we'll have to wait until then to get further details on the network implementation as a whole. I'm honestly concerned as to what he'll find with the scale of issues that people have been reporting so far. How could it only be experienced by the host? Are the three other team members halfway through extraction wave, while the host is still on Wave 6 hacking the objective with the time dilation? That just isn't possible. yeah it's not... i'm offhost here, watch the timer (5:18 onwards)
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Post by mosephjones on Mar 19, 2017 3:25:17 GMT
So as I've seen it so far, and this is strictly anecdotal, I hosted three separate games all with different graphics settings. I'm running an I5 3750k and a gtx 670. Tried hosting a game on custom medium settings and had time dilation. Tried hosting a game on custom low with anything that could be turned off as such, and had the same effect. Then restarted with Auto Detect and default setting. This had the least amount of problems and the least amount of hitching. I had a friend that I have been playing with and he had to do the same thing and set it to Auto Detect. This cleared up his problems and we actually started to have fun. Now I know that this is just two cases and that alot of people are running out of trial time to test, but if anyone can help confirm a difference then maybe we can alleviate the first headache for this community.
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Post by spacev3gan on Mar 19, 2017 3:37:00 GMT
This is just bizarre. I can't believe my eyes. As someone who is playing from South America and is looking to play with people overseas, this stuff is really concerning.
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Post by klipwc on Mar 19, 2017 3:49:00 GMT
Sadly, i have yet to go through a single game without time dilation triggering and ruining it. Atm my only alternative seems to be soloing but then if i do end up soloing, whats the point of a multiplayer then.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 9:03:10 GMT
You all should be thankful. This is SUPER Adrenaline Rush.
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Post by jam201984 on Mar 19, 2017 9:16:59 GMT
Sadly, i have yet to go through a single game without time dilation triggering and ruining it. Atm my only alternative seems to be soloing but then if i do end up soloing, whats the point of a multiplayer then. does the game scale for solo ?
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Post by Astronautic on Mar 19, 2017 9:21:26 GMT
What in tarnation! I have yet to experience this, and I hope I never will.
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Post by Cyberzombie on Mar 19, 2017 10:17:49 GMT
Seems like it's exactly what myself and many others around here have been expecting, another biofail. I didn't pre-order, so don't have to cancel it. Think I'll just uninstall origin and never look back.
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Post by JohnBorrows on Mar 19, 2017 11:00:15 GMT
portforwarding might help, i found that mea uses theese, dunno if its correct though TCP: 443, 17503, 17504, 10000-19999, 42210, 42130, 42230. UDP: 3659, 10000-19999.
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Post by jam201984 on Mar 19, 2017 15:08:47 GMT
portforwarding might help, i found that mea uses theese, dunno if its correct though TCP: 443, 17503, 17504, 10000-19999, 42210, 42130, 42230. UDP: 3659, 10000-19999. anyone confirm these ports.
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Post by akots on Mar 19, 2017 16:22:07 GMT
portforwarding might help, i found that mea uses theese, dunno if its correct though TCP: 443, 17503, 17504, 10000-19999, 42210, 42130, 42230. UDP: 3659, 10000-19999. anyone confirm these ports. It's from EA support FAQ page: here
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Post by evosigma on Mar 19, 2017 16:41:53 GMT
How could it only be experienced by the host? Are the three other team members halfway through extraction wave, while the host is still on Wave 6 hacking the objective with the time dilation? That just isn't possible. yeah it's not... i'm offhost here, watch the timer (5:18 onwards) I must clarify what I mean when I say that the time dilation (or "slow motion" as it were) is only experienced by the host. The host is the only player to experience the bullet-time esque slow down where the entire game state moves at a fraction of the speed (including the timers). However, the other connected clients do not experience this gameplay slow down and instead experience the rubber-banding which is exactly what is being show cased in your video. The host is the one maintaining the simulation so the clients will receive data on the game state in accordance to what the host is experiencing. Instead of the clients slowing down though, they rubber-band while also receiving the delayed countdown timers. I've also noticed that the AI just seems to freeze in place at times in your video which also leads me to confirm that the host in your lobby was experiencing the slow motion and this video shows what it's like to be connected as a client to a time dilated host. This is only speculative but there seems to be massive re-syncing issues going on between the client and the host to cause this borderline unplayable state.
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Post by leafspring on Mar 19, 2017 19:41:49 GMT
This is only speculative but there seems to be massive re-syncing issues going on between the client and the host to cause this borderline unplayable state. It's surprisingly difficult to come up with a plausible potential cause for this issue... The only two things I can think of at the moment are a) a weird lag spike compensation where the game simulation speed is reduced for a short amount of time if all of the connected clients fall too far behind. While that wouldn't help them catch up in any way (not how it works), it would ensure that not too much is happening while they're lagging. The obvious downside is of course that it'd be constantly active in very high ping environments. Or a performance issue on the host system causing the engine to reduce the tick rate of the game simulation. This would also require Bioware to have tied the simulation to the frame rate and not the frame time, which would be quite...unfortunate. Both of these don't sound very likely, though. I do hope Bioware shares some info on this issue once they've resolved it.
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Post by evosigma on Mar 19, 2017 20:27:17 GMT
This is only speculative but there seems to be massive re-syncing issues going on between the client and the host to cause this borderline unplayable state. It's surprisingly difficult to come up with a plausible potential cause for this issue... The only two things I can think of at the moment are a) a weird lag spike compensation where the game simulation speed is reduced for a short amount of time if all of the connected clients fall too far behind. While that wouldn't help them catch up in any way (not how it works), it would ensure that not too much is happening while they're lagging. The obvious downside is of course that it'd be constantly active in very high ping environments. Or a performance issue on the host system causing the engine to reduce the tick rate of the game simulation. This would also require Bioware to have tied the simulation to the frame rate and not the frame time, which would be quite...unfortunate. Both of these don't sound very likely, though. I do hope Bioware shares some info on this issue once they've resolved it. This truly is an odd scenario since the game itself for the host does not undergo any frame drops or noticeable performance hits. I had this issue happen several times when hosting a lobby (often when it's full and never when it's less than 3 clients). I used the in engine console command "PerfOverlay.DrawFPs 1" to enable my frame rate and it was always above 60fps and other users across different message boards have not reported any frame drops when experiencing the "slow-motion" so I don't think the server tick rate is being tied to the frame rate. However, I have no idea what their client-> host or host -> client update rates are and that's something that I'm genuinely curious to know. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was something abysmal such as 10Hz or it could even be a variable rate which would be even more bizarre (something that was possible in gears of war 4 on PC although it was the opposite and was instead absurdly high). Rubber banding and latency issues are to be expected (we came from me3mp after all) but this slow down effect is something I never expected and it's nearly unheard of in most p2p network configurations so we don't have a set precedent on what the exact cause may be... Regardless, I hope their network engineers can fix it in time before too many people get frustrated and ultimately leave...
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Post by akots on Mar 19, 2017 20:59:05 GMT
This is only speculative but there seems to be massive re-syncing issues going on between the client and the host to cause this borderline unplayable state. It's surprisingly difficult to come up with a plausible potential cause for this issue... The only two things I can think of at the moment are a) a weird lag spike compensation where the game simulation speed is reduced for a short amount of time if all of the connected clients fall too far behind. While that wouldn't help them catch up in any way (not how it works), it would ensure that not too much is happening while they're lagging. The obvious downside is of course that it'd be constantly active in very high ping environments. Or a performance issue on the host system causing the engine to reduce the tick rate of the game simulation. This would also require Bioware to have tied the simulation to the frame rate and not the frame time, which would be quite...unfortunate. Both of these don't sound very likely, though. I do hope Bioware shares some info on this issue once they've resolved it. It might be that each array of packets is time-stamped and the host cannot resolve a frame (or multiple frames) if more than a certain percentage of packets are missing or out of sync. The packets apparently go back and forth up until the frame is resolved and during this, host game timer is frozen as there are no new frames. I'm not talking about graphic frames, these are apparently fine regardless, but about combat frames. The system is actually logical and maybe new, I don't know enough about these things, so somebody with more knowledge should investigate. The math behind it has been developed, it is quite complicated well on par with partial relativity theory. For extreme geeksBut the actual simulation is rather convincing: Shooting demo
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Post by SalMasRac on Mar 19, 2017 21:16:33 GMT
It's surprisingly difficult to come up with a plausible potential cause for this issue... The only two things I can think of at the moment are a) a weird lag spike compensation where the game simulation speed is reduced for a short amount of time if all of the connected clients fall too far behind. While that wouldn't help them catch up in any way (not how it works), it would ensure that not too much is happening while they're lagging. The obvious downside is of course that it'd be constantly active in very high ping environments. Or a performance issue on the host system causing the engine to reduce the tick rate of the game simulation. This would also require Bioware to have tied the simulation to the frame rate and not the frame time, which would be quite...unfortunate. Both of these don't sound very likely, though. I do hope Bioware shares some info on this issue once they've resolved it. It might be that each array of packets is time-stamped and the host cannot resolve a frame (or multiple frames) if more than a certain percentage of packets are missing or out of sync. The packets apparently go back and forth up until the frame is resolved and during this, host game timer is frozen as there are no new frames. I'm not talking about graphic frames, these are apparently fine regardless, but about combat frames. The system is actually logical and maybe new, I don't know enough about these things, so somebody with more knowledge should investigate. The math behind it has been developed, it is quite complicated well on par with partial relativity theory. For extreme geeksBut the actual simulation is rather convincing: Shooting demoSo are we screwed? Because my takeaway from that is that we are screwed.
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Post by leafspring on Mar 19, 2017 21:33:29 GMT
It's surprisingly difficult to come up with a plausible potential cause for this issue... The only two things I can think of at the moment are a) a weird lag spike compensation where the game simulation speed is reduced for a short amount of time if all of the connected clients fall too far behind. While that wouldn't help them catch up in any way (not how it works), it would ensure that not too much is happening while they're lagging. The obvious downside is of course that it'd be constantly active in very high ping environments. Or a performance issue on the host system causing the engine to reduce the tick rate of the game simulation. This would also require Bioware to have tied the simulation to the frame rate and not the frame time, which would be quite...unfortunate. Both of these don't sound very likely, though. I do hope Bioware shares some info on this issue once they've resolved it. I have no idea what their client-> host or host -> client update rates are and that's something that I'm genuinely curious to know. Let me preface this by saying that something interfered to the point that I only got incoming traffic, so take this with a heap of salt for now: In a quick check I did, I received 2 updates per second from the host. edit: Proper analysis followed - update rate is likely to be 30/30 (just putting it here so people don't get a false impression)I'll try to get rid of the interference and do another check to make sure I don't talk nonsense. And also provide client->server rate. It's surprisingly difficult to come up with a plausible potential cause for this issue... The only two things I can think of at the moment are a) a weird lag spike compensation where the game simulation speed is reduced for a short amount of time if all of the connected clients fall too far behind. While that wouldn't help them catch up in any way (not how it works), it would ensure that not too much is happening while they're lagging. The obvious downside is of course that it'd be constantly active in very high ping environments. Or a performance issue on the host system causing the engine to reduce the tick rate of the game simulation. This would also require Bioware to have tied the simulation to the frame rate and not the frame time, which would be quite...unfortunate. Both of these don't sound very likely, though. I do hope Bioware shares some info on this issue once they've resolved it. It might be that each array of packets is time-stamped and the host cannot resolve a frame (or multiple frames) if more than a certain percentage of packets are missing or out of sync. The packets apparently go back and forth up until the frame is resolved and during this, host game timer is frozen as there are no new frames. I'm not talking about graphic frames, these are apparently fine regardless, but about combat frames. The system is actually logical and maybe new, I don't know enough about these things, so somebody with more knowledge should investigate. The math behind it has been developed, it is quite complicated well on par with partial relativity theory. For extreme geeksBut the actual simulation is rather convincing: Shooting demoInteresting stuff. While I don't see any time dilation effects in the demo even with very high pings, it'll be an interesting read nonetheless. Also, I can see freezing the host timer make sense in a dedicated server environment (no packets means no player engages in the simulation) but in a p2p model, the host is always present as a player...
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Post by akots on Mar 19, 2017 22:06:46 GMT
So are we screwed? Because my takeaway from that is that we are screwed. Apparently, yes, we are all messed up one way or another in this universe or in a parallel. I'll be very surprised if Bioware is actually using something with that much complexity in it. Can be some simple bug or glitch in the code of client/server protocol. But you never know
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Post by leafspring on Mar 19, 2017 22:07:51 GMT
Did another check, this time without interference - it showed updates rates of 2hz client -> server and 2hz server -> client. (and no, I didn't miss a zero there... ) edit: Proper analysis followed - update rate is likely to be 30/30 (just putting it here so people don't get a false impression)
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Post by penguinfetish on Mar 19, 2017 22:16:14 GMT
Did another check, this time without interference - it showed updates rates of 2hz client -> server and 2hz server -> client. (and no, I didn't miss a zero there... ) It would be good to see this in a separate detailed post actually, thats really interesting. For what its worth, I haven't really had time dialation, however, I notice slight input lag when hosting people with bad connections to me at best and severe FPS issues at worst. Not really sure why this happens since its supposed to be P2P, but bioware always surprises.
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