leafspring
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Post by leafspring on Mar 19, 2017 23:15:23 GMT
As per request, a more detailed post about my update rate check. Disclaimer: I'm not a network engineer, so grain of salt and all of that. Also, if there is an actual network guru present, feel free to correct any mistakes I made or nonsense I said.
The easiest way to determine update rates is to use Wireshark and simply monitor the network connection while in a game, so I did just that. This is the full result: There's two different protocols present, UDP and GVSP. The latter is a streaming protocol and, I assume, used for the ingame voice chat. UDP is where game updates usually happen. Edit: As it turns out, Wireshark seems to have mislabeled the GVSP frames, so they're the game updates. Filtered by GVSP, incoming connection: And filtered by GVSP, outgoing connection: Judging from the frame timing, the updates happen about every 30ms in each direction, which means an update rate of roughly 30/30.--- For the sake of it I'll leave the UDP stuff in here as a sidenote (because I thinks interesting as well). So, filtered by UDP: Those two connections seems to be the other two players. Update rates in each direction: So it turns out, the game exchanges things with the two other non-host players at an update rate of 2/2 as well. Another interesting thing is that my client sends its updates simultaneously but the response is usually offset by about 200ms between the two receivers. The 129.21.X.X IP is owned by a university, so this might be down to individual connection quality.
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Urizen
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Post by Urizen on Mar 19, 2017 23:33:49 GMT
Everything is to be taken with a shipload of salt!
I highly doubt that the update rate is 2hz, and if I interpret the value in info correctly ( that suspiciously looks like the port, if so, that specific port is shared between several ea games ), I even doubt that UDP is used to transmit any information regarding the sim ( just look at the fixed size of 82 bits alone ). GVSP seems to be the protocol used to transmit gamedata.
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Post by evosigma on Mar 19, 2017 23:36:33 GMT
Is it possible that the GVSP dissector is enabled? It may be mis categorizing it as a result when it's actually using UDP
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leafspring
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Post by leafspring on Mar 19, 2017 23:38:18 GMT
Everything is to be taken with a shipload of salt! I highly doubt that the update rate is 2hz, and if I interpret the value in info correctly ( that suspiciously looks like the port, if so, that specific port is shared between several ea games ), I even doubt that UDP is used to transmit any information regarding the sim ( just look at the fixed size of 82 bits alone ). GVSP seems to be the protocol used to transmit gamedata. Yes, I already updated the OP accordingly and will probably move the UDP stuff to the bottom as an interesting observation. Also had a look at how Wireshark determines protocols. Since GVSP is based on UDP and Wireshark pretty much guesses at what the content might tell about the protocol, it likely just mislabeled the frames.
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Urizen
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Post by Urizen on Mar 19, 2017 23:43:43 GMT
That makes more sense. It would also mean that the updaterate is closer to 30hz then, that´s bf1 on consoles.
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leafspring
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Post by leafspring on Mar 19, 2017 23:51:13 GMT
That makes more sense. It would also mean that the updaterate is closer to 30hz then, that´s bf1 on consoles. It certainly does and I'd probably have caught on earlier if that hadn't been a VoIP protocol in a game using VoIP.
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TormDK
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Post by TormDK on Mar 20, 2017 7:25:41 GMT
While 30hz is "ok" I suppose, the engine (Frostbite) can do better - so the ask from the community should be to have this improved.
60Hz is the mainstream target to hit nowadays.
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leafspring
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Post by leafspring on Mar 20, 2017 8:28:28 GMT
While 30hz is "ok" I suppose, the engine (Frostbite) can do better - so the ask from the community should be to have this improved. 60Hz is the mainstream target to hit nowadays. A thing you have to keep in mind with the 60hz is that it mostly applies to PvP games, the majority of them running on dedicated servers. That means you have dedicated hardware for a less expensive task. With MEAMP you have PvE, meaning a more complex game simulation (just an example - game update for the last Cod is about 120 to 170 byte, while Mea is 500 byte to 1k), running on consumer hardware which also has to run the rendering at the same time. Plus I think the 30/30 isn't really an issue. Prediction shouldn't be a problem since most of the other "players" are AI controlled (so their behavior is deterministic) and lag compensation isn't that difficult either.
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TormDK
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Post by TormDK on Mar 20, 2017 8:42:56 GMT
While 30hz is "ok" I suppose, the engine (Frostbite) can do better - so the ask from the community should be to have this improved. 60Hz is the mainstream target to hit nowadays. A thing you have to keep in mind with the 60hz is that it mostly applies to PvP games, the majority of them running on dedicated servers. That means you have dedicated hardware for a less expensive task. With MEAMP you have PvE, meaning a more complex game simulation (just an example - game update for the last Cod is about 120 to 170 byte, while Mea is 500 byte to 1k), running on consumer hardware which also has to run the rendering at the same time. Plus I think the 30/30 isn't really an issue. Prediction shouldn't be a problem since most of the other "players" are AI controlled (so their behavior is deterministic) and lag compensation isn't that difficult either. Well, I think some thought could be put into the Host selection, to better factor in the hardware that some players have. I have top of the line hardware on PC, and a high bandwidth stable connection - but it rarely selects me, instead prefering some random Joe's crappy laptop on his East European potato connection. That makes no sense. But then I do suppose this would require Bioware to actually think about their design choices - like VoIP being turned on default as voice activated on PC, where speaker and microphone on laptops is very close to each other - which results in massive feedback loops...
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akots
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Post by akots on Mar 20, 2017 12:47:42 GMT
... I have top of the line hardware on PC, and a high bandwidth stable connection - but it rarely selects me, instead prefering some random Joe's crappy laptop on his East European potato connection. That makes no sense. ... Selection probably relies on slowest/weakest connection, and maybe sometimes on minimal average ping between all peers. However, in ME3, I've seen a plenty of times that host migrates to New South Wales while two other players are from the East Coast. It does make sense for that Australian player though, probably makes him very happy finally being able to take revenge for all this lag he endured off host.
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