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Post by midnight tea on Jul 21, 2017 23:31:24 GMT
... Should we make a petition to ask DA devs to add Blar's sideburns into DA4 CC? |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 21, 2017 23:33:13 GMT
I think the issue here is that the truth IS oftentimes feels, or being sensitive to possible offenses that may stem from carelessness or ignorance, while writer's aim is to achieve at least some degree of accuracy in how a person they portray may feel or behave. And it's hard to call a disabled person a 'cultural consultant', like in case of what PW asked for help with. The term seems accurate to what it aims to help with and may only feel loaded for those who want to view it as loaded. I did say "cultural consultant or somesuch term", Tea. Sensitivity consultant? Minority consultant? From my point of view, if someone wants to find problem with the name or function, they will. |
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 21, 2017 23:37:46 GMT
Mike Laidlaw @ SDCC @mike_Laidlaw What do we call it when Xenon the Antiquarian lets slip a fart? Noble gas.  Go to your room. Mike Laidlaw @ SDCC @mike_LaidlawFINE! AND I'M NEVER COMING OUT! *stomps off* |
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 21, 2017 23:39:45 GMT
I did say "cultural consultant or somesuch term", Tea. Sensitivity consultant? Minority consultant? From my point of view, if someone wants to find problem with the name or function, they will. Whether or not someone's gonna find issue with a name isn't the point. The term "sensitivity reader" is loaded specifically b/c it implies the reader's primary focus is nicety above all other concerns. I'm glad Patrick takes the reader's feedback on the feels and views it as whether those are feels he actually wanted to cause or not. And I assume, if they were intended feels, he leaves them in. He's treating it like feedback from a localization team. He's not having the sensitivity reader dictate his content, so I don't see a problem with what he's talking about. I do consider the position of a sensitivity reader to be potentially stupid if its used to censor writing based on feels, which I can easily see it doing with other writers who don't keep their integrity. Mike Laidlaw @ SDCC @mike_Laidlaw What do we call it when Xenon the Antiquarian lets slip a fart? Noble gas. Go to your room. Mike Laidlaw @ SDCC @mike_LaidlawFINE! AND I'M NEVER COMING OUT! *stomps off* As long as he has email, DA4 will still get done, right? |
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 21, 2017 23:48:55 GMT
Dan Warren @danlwarrenApparently there's a thing called a bunny harvestman and it's absolutely adhorrible. seb hanlon 🔵🗣 @hanlspSoooooo this is a thing #monsterspiration
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 21, 2017 23:57:59 GMT
Dan Warren @danlwarrenApparently there's a thing called a bunny harvestman and it's absolutely adhorrible. seb hanlon 🔵🗣 @hanlspSoooooo this is a thing #monsterspiration Oh god, everyone show no one tell Bunny... For a second there I thought the zooming in shot was gonna show an actual photoshopped bunny riding that spider. lol |
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 21, 2017 23:59:24 GMT
... Should we make a petition to ask DA devs to add Blar's sideburns into DA4 CC? I think there was a version of them in DA2... but I could be wrong. |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 22, 2017 0:03:44 GMT
Sensitivity consultant? Minority consultant? From my point of view, if someone wants to find problem with the name or function, they will. I'm glad Patrick takes the reader's feedback on the feels and views it as whether those are feels he actually wanted to cause or not. And, I assume if they were intended, he leaves them in. He's not having the sensitivity reader dictate his content, so I don't see a problem with what he's talking about. I do consider the position of a sensitivity reader to be potentially stupid if its used to censor writing based on feels, which I can easily see it doing with other writers who don't keep their integrity. From my perspective the only thing the terms seems to be loaded with is irony - that there are folks sensitive to the word 'sensitive', which is hilarious considering the context for why the term is considered 'loaded' in the first place. The same accusation could be leveled at "cultural consultants", or even editors or publishers (in fact I know of some writers who considered editor's work as censorship). Or heck, anybody they show their work for because they value their opinion or their 'feels'. And if the author has "no integrity", then it's the author's problem. In fact, I fail to see it as a problem if it's author's choice to consult such reader in the first place. |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 22, 2017 0:07:35 GMT
Dan Warren @danlwarrenApparently there's a thing called a bunny harvestman and it's absolutely adhorrible. seb hanlon 🔵🗣 @hanlspSoooooo this is a thing #monsterspiration That's... that's BATMAN. Or spibat I guess? Bater? It looks like Batman if he turned into a spider!! |
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 22, 2017 0:17:37 GMT
Whether or not someone's gonna find issue with a name isn't the point. The term "sensitivity reader" is loaded. I'm glad Patrick takes the reader's feedback on the feels and views it as whether those are feels he actually wanted to cause or not. And, I assume if they were intended, he leaves them in. He's not having the sensitivity reader dictate his content, so I don't see a problem with what he's talking about. I do consider the position of a sensitivity reader to be potentially stupid if its used to censor writing based on feels, which I can easily see it doing with other writers who don't keep their integrity. From my perspective the only thing the terms seems to be loaded with is irony - that there are folks sensitive to the word 'sensitive', which is hilarious considering the context for to why the term is considered 'loaded' in the first place. Yes, Tea, people express concern when it seems a social justice term (see the term "sensitivity training" as a comparison) is being used to inform the writing on their games when they don't agree with the typical social justice agenda. Could call it being "sensitive". Could also just call it being observant. Either way, its not a concern to just dismiss out of hand. In this specific case, I don't think having a "sensitivity reader" is negatively impacting Weekes' writing, so I'm fine with it as far as my opinion goes. But the intent of the term/position on its own does bother me. People who would bother to invent that term in the first place have a tendency to go past the line. They go beyond your defense of "truth is oftentimes feels" to "truth < feels". And I don't think its unreasonable to be on watch for that and be ready to nip it in the bud if its really happening. Dan Warren @danlwarrenApparently there's a thing called a bunny harvestman and it's absolutely adhorrible. seb hanlon 🔵🗣 @hanlspSoooooo this is a thing #monsterspiration That's... that's BATMAN. Or spibat I guess? Bater? It looks like Batman if he turned into a spider!! It could also be a doberman-spider. I can see a dog's head in that body, with teh spider's eyes for a nose. .... Ugh. *shudders* |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 0:42:52 GMT
Dan Warren @danlwarrenApparently there's a thing called a bunny harvestman and it's absolutely adhorrible. seb hanlon 🔵🗣 @hanlspSoooooo this is a thing #monsterspiration What. The. Fuck. You seriously couldn't make this creature up. |
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 22, 2017 0:44:42 GMT
Dan Warren @danlwarrenApparently there's a thing called a bunny harvestman and it's absolutely adhorrible. seb hanlon 🔵🗣 @hanlspSoooooo this is a thing #monsterspiration What. The. Fuck. You seriously couldn't make this creature up. You should see some deep sea creatures, oy vey. It's amazing how diverse life is on this planet. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 0:49:13 GMT
I was thinking more along the lines of horrifying, but yeah, sure...let's go with "diverse."  |
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Post by arvaarad on Jul 22, 2017 1:12:52 GMT
Dan Warren @danlwarrenApparently there's a thing called a bunny harvestman and it's absolutely adhorrible. seb hanlon 🔵🗣 @hanlspSoooooo this is a thing #monsterspiration What. The. Fuck. You seriously couldn't make this creature up. "Now that I am disguised as a sweet, delicious Peep, those flies won't suspect a thing! Mwahahahahaha!" *strokes tiny spider mustache* |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 22, 2017 1:27:21 GMT
From my perspective the only thing the terms seems to be loaded with is irony - that there are folks sensitive to the word 'sensitive', which is hilarious considering the context for to why the term is considered 'loaded' in the first place. Yes, Tea, people express concern when it seems a social justice term (see the term "sensitivity training" as a comparison) is being used to inform the writing on their games when they don't agree with the typical social justice agenda. Could call it being "sensitive". Could also just call it being observant. Either way, its not a concern to just dismiss out of hand. In this specific case, I don't think having a "sensitivity reader" is negatively impacting Weekes' writing, so I'm fine with it as far as my opinion goes. Okay, so 'sensitive' can be synonymous with 'observant' then? Or is it only observant when it concerns people who disagree with certain positions? I mean, nevermind that Bioware, according to some people at least, is at the forefront of 'social justice'. Yet... you seem to like PW's writing. You appear to enjoy BW games. So maybe the devil is not as bad as it's being painted as and choosing to use consultants/readers for the sake of accuracy or caring for opinions or feelings of groups that didn't have as much luck as others in many respects does not carry as many sinister undertones as some people want to see in it. The same could be said about any part of a group or extremes of that group, including confusing the feelings with truth part. Sure, be vigilant to not fall into extremes or pitfalls of any sides, but IMO, as of now, there are way bigger problems than the fact that writers choose to consult sensitivity readers. |
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Post by MarilynRobert on Jul 22, 2017 2:07:15 GMT
Dan Warren @danlwarrenApparently there's a thing called a bunny harvestman and it's absolutely adhorrible. seb hanlon 🔵🗣 @hanlspSoooooo this is a thing #monsterspiration I think of bunnies as being cute and that thing is NOT cute.  |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 22, 2017 2:19:11 GMT
Dan Warren @danlwarrenApparently there's a thing called a bunny harvestman and it's absolutely adhorrible. seb hanlon 🔵🗣 @hanlspSoooooo this is a thing #monsterspiration I think of bunnies as being cute and that thing is NOT cute. ... What about water bears? Or sea nugs... I mean, sea pigs? |
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Post by MarilynRobert on Jul 22, 2017 2:30:24 GMT
I think of bunnies as being cute and that thing is NOT cute. ... What about water bears? Or sea nugs... I mean, sea pigs? No, not cute...I don't think squishy eyeless things with a lot of legs (or toes?) are cute. Scary, but not cute.  |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 22, 2017 2:40:58 GMT
How about sea bunnies?!  (although the last one looks like green sea sheep, lol) |
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Jul 22, 2017 2:46:18 GMT
Wow, the new Spore game looks awesome! |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 22, 2017 2:47:42 GMT
Wow, the new Spore game looks awesome! It has new IRL mode |
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 22, 2017 2:56:24 GMT
Yes, Tea, people express concern when it seems a social justice term (see the term "sensitivity training" as a comparison) is being used to inform the writing on their games when they don't agree with the typical social justice agenda. Could call it being "sensitive". Could also just call it being observant. Either way, its not a concern to just dismiss out of hand. In this specific case, I don't think having a "sensitivity reader" is negatively impacting Weekes' writing, so I'm fine with it as far as my opinion goes. Okay, so 'sensitive' can be synonymous with 'observant' then? Or is it only observant when it concerns people who disagree with certain positions? I mean, nevermind that Bioware, according to some people at least, is at the forefront of 'social justice'. Yet... you seem to like PW's writing. You appear to enjoy BW games. So maybe the devil is not as bad as it's being painted as and choosing to use consultants/readers for the sake of accuracy or caring for opinions or feelings of groups that didn't have as much luck as others in many respects does not carry as many sinister undertones as some people want to see in it. Spoiled for size:
I'm saying that some people will see it and say its "sensitive"(with the implication that it is overly so) while others will see it and say its observing a possible trend. Which one they will say will depend entirely on the pov they approach it with.
And I agree that Bioware, as a general rule, likes to promote social justice, progressive ideas. First off, some of the devs I believe have actually cited progressive ideals (documented in this very twitter thread). Secondly, they hired a guy who liked to smugly drink from a "white tears" mug. And there is a lot of front and center concern in this company with representing homosexuality and transgenderism in the games. It is self-evident they are a progressive group of people as a whole. Or at least the leadership is.
Disagreeing with a writer's ideas on certain topics doesn't mean that I have to think all of their stuff sucks and needs to be burned at the stake, though. I'm content to disagree with them. And state my opinion when its relevant/when I feel like it.
What allows me to enjoy the games, even when I disagree with the pov some writers personally believe in, is that they've usually been kind enough to let me ignore their opinions if I feel like it. Sometimes, I even get a chance to express my own. But even if I don't, there's almost always an option to not participate. Like that Krem conversation that has Bull give that cringy pre-emptive lecture before you've even said anything wrong. There is one option in that wheel to brush right past it all and not comment. (I would have preferred there to also be an option to comment in a way that does not trigger Bull, but I can accept what I've been given.) And in the rare occaisions where characters express an opinion I disagree with and I am forced to go along with it, I just mentally disagree and move on. As long as they're not jerks about it, I don't even usually end up disliking the character b/c of it. I am comfortable in my own opinions and my ability to think critically, so I square the circle of Bioware's writers disagreeing with me just fine.
The same could be said about any part of a group or extremes of that group, including confusing the feelings with truth part. Sure, be vigilant to not fall into extremes or pitfalls of any sides, but IMO, as of now, there are way bigger problems than the fact that writers choose to consult sensitivity readers. As I've said, I do agree that its not a problem with Patrick in this context. I am just arguing that expressing concern about the general idea of a sensitivity reader possibly being a gatekeeper on writing in future games shouldn't be dismissed out of hand as if it has no possible validity. How about sea bunnies?! (although the last one looks like green sea sheep, lol) I like the last one. I'd squish it if it came at me (or I'd swim away screaming, actually), but I like it's colors. lol |
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 22, 2017 3:28:43 GMT
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Coworker asks me to explain a complicated and deep aspect of Dragon Age lore, and like, I'm just here for fun banter and nookie scenes, man. i.imgur.com/vlL7p9i.gif
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Post by arvaarad on Jul 22, 2017 3:30:20 GMT
Wow, the new Spore game looks awesome! I don't think that spider is... turgid enough to be a Spore creation. |
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 22, 2017 7:17:09 GMT
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