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Post by Zemgus on Jul 21, 2017 18:23:29 GMT
And consensus isn't always right - as anyone who knows recent history would probably agree with. Besides forums like this one aren't the best place to get accurate evaluation of what all players think. Thank you for the Mike Laidlaw Twitter quote. I will read those tweets again with this in mind. and I definitely wasn't talking about "what all players think" (that's not even what consensus means). So what were you talking about? When you said: "but it'd seem that the general consensus is that people are happy with Bull and Krem, or how things were handled, even if it wasn't perfect for all." And I didn't mean "all players" to be taken literally. |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 21, 2017 18:54:43 GMT
I wasn't talking just about this forum and I definitely wasn't talking about "what all players think" (that's not even what consensus means). So what were you talking about? When you said: "but it'd seem that the general consensus is that people are happy with Bull and Krem, or how things were handled, even if it wasn't perfect for all." And I didn't mean "all players" to be taken literally. You've just assumed that I'm talking about BSN... and I'm not sure why. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 18:55:47 GMT
Mike Laidlaw @ SDCC @mike_Laidlaw What do we call it when Xenon the Antiquarian lets slip a fart? Noble gas.  Mike should be arrested for this joke. |
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Post by Zemgus on Jul 21, 2017 19:03:58 GMT
So what were you talking about? When you said: "but it'd seem that the general consensus is that people are happy with Bull and Krem, or how things were handled, even if it wasn't perfect for all." And I didn't mean "all players" to be taken literally. You've just assumed that I'm talking about BSN... and I'm not sure why. Because you didn't say what you are talking about. Reddit? Twitter? Tumblr, perhaps? |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 21, 2017 19:12:28 GMT
You've just assumed that I'm talking about BSN... and I'm not sure why. Because you didn't say what you are talking about. Reddit? Twitter? Tumblr, perhaps? ... So I absolutely have to talk about just one platform, not what I've seen across multiple ones? BSN is not the only place I come for Bioware news or opinions, even if it's practically the only one I'm active on  I mean... nevermind that we're on Twitter thread. |
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 21, 2017 19:12:55 GMT
Mike Laidlaw @ SDCC @mike_Laidlaw What do we call it when Xenon the Antiquarian lets slip a fart? Noble gas. Mike should be arrested for this joke. Wasn't he photographed behind bars at some trade show event recently? He may like it...  |
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 21, 2017 19:27:39 GMT
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 21, 2017 19:32:31 GMT
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Post by Zemgus on Jul 21, 2017 19:35:28 GMT
Because you didn't say what you are talking about. Reddit? Twitter? Tumblr, perhaps? ... So I absolutely have to talk about just one platform, not what I've seen across multiple ones? BSN is not the only place I come for Bioware news or opinions, even if it's practically the only one I'm active on I mean... nevermind that we're on Twitter thread. When did I say that it has to be just one platform? Again you failed to answer, but nevermind. What the "consensus" might be doesn't have much to do with my original point after all. But it's not like I'm alone in criticizing PW's writing. I have seen others with similar concerns as I. |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 21, 2017 19:46:10 GMT
... So I absolutely have to talk about just one platform, not what I've seen across multiple ones? BSN is not the only place I come for Bioware news or opinions, even if it's practically the only one I'm active on I mean... nevermind that we're on Twitter thread. When did I say that it has to be just one platform? Again you failed to answer, but nevermind. What the "consensus" might be doesn't have much to do with my original point after all. But it's not like I'm alone in criticizing PW's writing. I have seen others with similar concerns as I. You've automatically assumed that I'm talking about BSN. I also didn't fail to answer your question - I can't give you one platform, like you keep insisting, because there's NO one platform I'm talking about, but fandom spread across multiple. Also - it'd seem that we're starting to go around in circles, so let's end it at that. |
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Post by Zemgus on Jul 21, 2017 20:00:16 GMT
When did I say that it has to be just one platform? Again you failed to answer, but nevermind. What the "consensus" might be doesn't have much to do with my original point after all. But it's not like I'm alone in criticizing PW's writing. I have seen others with similar concerns as I. You've automatically assumed that I'm talking about BSN. I also didn't fail to answer your question - I can't give you one platform, like you keep insisting, because there's NO one platform I'm talking about, but fandom spread across multiple. Also - it'd seem that we're starting to go around in circles, so let's end it at that. I didn't automatically assume anything (you did actually) and I wasn't insisting you to give me one platform. I was just curious what your source s were but it seems like you were insisted on misinterpreting what I was saying. |
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 21, 2017 20:04:37 GMT
You've automatically assumed that I'm talking about BSN. I also didn't fail to answer your question - I can't give you one platform, like you keep insisting, because there's NO one platform I'm talking about, but fandom spread across multiple. Also - it'd seem that we're starting to go around in circles, so let's end it at that. I didn't automatically assume anything (you did actually) and I wasn't insisting you to give me one platform. I was just curious what your source s were but it seems like you were insisted on misinterpreting what I was saying. Twitter thread... you're off topic... drop it please. |
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Post by thats1evildude on Jul 21, 2017 20:28:55 GMT
I wouldn't mind using Wrath of Heaven on that apostate, if you get my drift. ... Shut up, it makes perfect sense. |
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 21, 2017 21:36:12 GMT
DA Confessions @daconfesslonsWho is the biggest troll? 18% Mike Laidlaw 51% Patrick Weekes 31% Mark Darrah (Final Results) Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Listen, @biomarkdarrah and @mike_Laidlaw, it's an honor just to be nominated. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahIf I'd been last, I figure it was an attempt to get me to reveal something. Might have worked too... Oh well... I guess we'll never know... 
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 21, 2017 23:02:21 GMT
Which is why in a fictional setting like this I think writing good scenes is more important than being 100% politically correct. How can you write anything if you're always so worried about offending someone? This was the question Patrick was answering in his series of tweets. The point of consulting people is to find out if you're writing something that will be read in a completely different way than you intend. You're going for some effect, but the person lets you know "oh, if you write it like that, it will have this completely different effect than you were going for." It has nothing to do with not offending people, and everything to do with avoiding weird distracting elements that you didn't put into the story on purpose. A lot of stuff that's off-target isn't exactly offensive to the affected group, so much as it's cringey or goofy, and it takes them out of the story. A good example is cultural stereotypes - think of how silly and distracting it is when animes use over-the-top cowboy characters to represent westerners. It feels the same way when western media does the reverse. It's not so much offensive as it is absurd/hilarious. If a story is trying to have a serious moment, or is trying to focus on something else in the scene, overused stereotypes or misconceptions steal focus from where the writer wants it to be. Sometimes because the audience is too busy giggling. And as he mentioned, sometimes you want that effect. But it gives you more control if you are aware of it, and can do it deliberately instead of accidentally. This is all well and good (and I think its how Patrick ultimately uses the reader in question) but then the person looking at this stuff is called the "sensitivity reader". Sensitivity is a social justice-laden, loaded term that implies its focus is on being sensitive to possible offenses being given to people/groups. Rather than, say, a "cultural consultant" position or somesuch like a lot of movies/shows/video games use, which is there for accuracy's sake and guidance regarding subject matter the writers aren't familiar with. They will of course also let you know if a certain statement about the subject matter is going to give offense as far as they're aware, but their main goal is truth (getting the subject matter right) whereas someone who's very title is "sensitivity reader" is likely not going to be focused on truth so much as feels. I don't doubt Patrick when he says what the reader is helping him do in those tweets. Just saying I think the person's job title implies a (subtle?) difference in goals that isn't necessarily counter to, but does encompass more than, what it is he laid out. And I see why Zemgus picked up on that like he did. |
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 21, 2017 23:13:47 GMT
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes
Not saying I distracted writing team for half hour spitballing "If we had to make Dragon Age into Fast and Furious." But. #dragonthefurious
Alistair looks over at Cullen, grins as he pulls ahead. Varric yells to Cullen, "Pop the lyrium!" #dragonthefurious
Anders rolls up in tricked-out ride with bumper sticker reading, "Taint No Thang". Smirks. "I only race for phylacteries." #dragonthefurious
The Iron Bull is a Ben-Hassrath agent sent to bring Alistair down, ends up joining team because everyone wants him back. #dragonthefurious
And then Morrigan shows up again but has amnesia and doesn't remember Alistair, and... wait, hang on, is that canon? #dragonthefurious
Mad Bee 100% human @angryspacebee
The temptation to draw this is great
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 21, 2017 23:14:49 GMT
This was the question Patrick was answering in his series of tweets. The point of consulting people is to find out if you're writing something that will be read in a completely different way than you intend. You're going for some effect, but the person lets you know "oh, if you write it like that, it will have this completely different effect than you were going for." It has nothing to do with not offending people, and everything to do with avoiding weird distracting elements that you didn't put into the story on purpose. A lot of stuff that's off-target isn't exactly offensive to the affected group, so much as it's cringey or goofy, and it takes them out of the story. A good example is cultural stereotypes - think of how silly and distracting it is when animes use over-the-top cowboy characters to represent westerners. It feels the same way when western media does the reverse. It's not so much offensive as it is absurd/hilarious. If a story is trying to have a serious moment, or is trying to focus on something else in the scene, overused stereotypes or misconceptions steal focus from where the writer wants it to be. Sometimes because the audience is too busy giggling. And as he mentioned, sometimes you want that effect. But it gives you more control if you are aware of it, and can do it deliberately instead of accidentally. This is all well and good (and I think its how Patrick ultimately uses the reader in question) but then the person looking at this stuff is called the "sensitivity reader". Sensitivity is a social justice-laden, loaded term that implies its focus is on being sensitive to possible offenses being given to people/groups. Rather than, say, a "cultural consultant" position or somesuch like a lot of movies/shows/video games use, which is there for accuracy's sake and guidance regarding subject matter the writers aren't familiar with. They will of course also let you know if a certain statement about the subject matter is going to give offense as far as they're aware, but their main goal is truth (getting the subject matter right) whereas someone who's very title is "sensitivity reader" is likely not going to be focused on truth so much as feels. I don't doubt Patrick when he says what the reader is helping him do in those tweets. Just saying I think the person's job title implies a (subtle?) difference in goals that isn't necessarily counter to, but does encompass more than, what it is he laid out. And I see why Zemgus picked up on that like he did. I think the issue here is that the truth IS oftentimes feels, or being sensitive to possible offenses that may stem from carelessness or ignorance, while writer's aim is to achieve at least some degree of accuracy in how a person they portray may feel or behave. And it's hard to call a disabled person a 'cultural consultant', like in case of what PW asked for help with. The term seems accurate to what it aims to help with and may only feel loaded for those who want to view it as loaded. |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 21, 2017 23:17:54 GMT
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Not saying I distracted writing team for half hour spitballing "If we had to make Dragon Age into Fast and Furious." But. #dragonthefurious Alistair looks over at Cullen, grins as he pulls ahead. Varric yells to Cullen, "Pop the lyrium!" #dragonthefurious Anders rolls up in tricked-out ride with bumper sticker reading, "Taint No Thang". Smirks. "I only race for phylacteries." #dragonthefurious Mad Bee 100% human @angryspacebee The temptation to draw this is great ... Shouldn't that be 'fast and dragonous'? Also - is the suggestion is that those are dragon races?  I WANT DRAGON RACES! FF has chocobo races, so I want dragons in Dragon Race, I mean Age! |
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 21, 2017 23:18:50 GMT
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Not saying I distracted writing team for half hour spitballing "If we had to make Dragon Age into Fast and Furious." But. #dragonthefurious Alistair looks over at Cullen, grins as he pulls ahead. Varric yells to Cullen, "Pop the lyrium!" #dragonthefurious Anders rolls up in tricked-out ride with bumper sticker reading, "Taint No Thang". Smirks. "I only race for phylacteries." #dragonthefurious Mad Bee 100% human @angryspacebee The temptation to draw this is great ... Shouldn't that be 'fast and dragonous'? Also - is the suggestion is that those are dragon races? I WANT DRAGON RACES! FF has chocobo races, so I want dragons in Dragon Race, I mean Age! 
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 21, 2017 23:19:46 GMT
DA Confessions @daconfesslonsWho is the biggest troll? 18% Mike Laidlaw 51% Patrick Weekes 31% Mark Darrah (Final Results) Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Listen, @biomarkdarrah and @mike_Laidlaw, it's an honor just to be nominated. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahIf I'd been last, I figure it was an attempt to get me to reveal something. Might have worked too... Oh well... I guess we'll never know... Are we actually saying we trust Mike the most here? Cus I don't know if that's really a tenable position to take... Put down the pink marker and step away from the canvas! Cannot unsee that pink beard. Hey! People are civil! For now. I bet at one point it'll end up looking like MET canvas and we'll all miss simplier times with pink beards Poor James in that omg XD |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 21, 2017 23:20:33 GMT
... Shouldn't that be 'fast and dragonous'? Also - is the suggestion is that those are dragon races? I WANT DRAGON RACES! FF has chocobo races, so I want dragons in Dragon Race, I mean Age!
"All New, Faded and Furious (Furrious?) For Her" |
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 21, 2017 23:21:36 GMT
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 21, 2017 23:22:31 GMT
The Fast & The Faded
"All New, Faded and Furious (Furrious?) For Her" I like it - you should tweet that at Patrick! |
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 21, 2017 23:27:55 GMT
"All New, Faded and Furious (Furrious?) For Her" I like it - you should tweet that at Patrick! I would, if my Twitter wasn't dead You can steal it  |
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jul 21, 2017 23:30:17 GMT
This is all well and good (and I think its how Patrick ultimately uses the reader in question) but then the person looking at this stuff is called the "sensitivity reader". Sensitivity is a social justice-laden, loaded term that implies its focus is on being sensitive to possible offenses being given to people/groups. Rather than, say, a "cultural consultant" position or somesuch like a lot of movies/shows/video games use, which is there for accuracy's sake and guidance regarding subject matter the writers aren't familiar with. They will of course also let you know if a certain statement about the subject matter is going to give offense as far as they're aware, but their main goal is truth (getting the subject matter right) whereas someone who's very title is "sensitivity reader" is likely not going to be focused on truth so much as feels. I don't doubt Patrick when he says what the reader is helping him do in those tweets. Just saying I think the person's job title implies a (subtle?) difference in goals that isn't necessarily counter to, but does encompass more than, what it is he laid out. And I see why Zemgus picked up on that like he did. I think the issue here is that the truth IS oftentimes feels, or being sensitive to possible offenses that may stem from carelessness or ignorance, while writer's aim is to achieve at least some degree of accuracy in how a person they portray may feel or behave. And it's hard to call a disabled person a 'cultural consultant', like in case of what PW asked for help with. The term seems accurate to what it aims to help with and may only feel loaded for those who want to view it as loaded. I did say "cultural consultant position or somesuch", Tea. |
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I mean... nevermind that we're on Twitter thread.
I WANT DRAGON RACES! FF has chocobo races, so I want dragons in Dragon Race, I mean Age!
