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Post by Gilli on Dec 8, 2017 15:15:56 GMT
Not sure why you include the A in that acronym, then. Don't asexuals have as much in common with gay people as straight people? "We're here! We're (not actually) queer! We're not interested in having any more sex!" As an asexual myself, I can tell you that I really enjoy Bioware romances. My fav romance so far was actually Dorian*, followed by Josie**, Merrill**, Alistair, Cassandra*** and Morrigan. I also romanced Anders and Solas, but they weren't my cup of tea. (they're good, just don't have me go "AWW YES! SO CUTE". Solas's breakup made me laugh ) *I did choose the "Let's take it slow" dialogue, but only because I had barely made it to Skyhold and Dorian was basically occupying the Inquisitor's room and wouldn't let me change my casual wear without the romance scene. (he really loved my Inky... )
**I romanced both of them with a fem!Inky/Hawke respectively, for Merrill it was planned, for Josie it was not.
***I don't mind the sex scene in Cass's romance, but the poetry reading gives me second hand embarrassment.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 8, 2017 18:28:02 GMT
Yes, but it's that battle between "this is a product made for players and we definitely want to fulfill wishes if we want to sell it." And "this is art, accept it or don't buy it ya phlebs." I respect both sides, but prefer the former. Well you prefer the former, but at the same time characterize the latter as 'this is art, buy it ya phlebs'... Not that I think it really matters, because I don't think the division is so simple, especially in such complex product. Art ain't just 'some artist's vision, now eat it and do so as I tell you!' thing, nor products made to please people can be just a product, not a work of art... nevermind that it's pretty much impossible to fulfill wishes of everyone. After all, 'players' aren't a monolith. The solution is simple and already proven. Make the base game for art, and support deep modding for wish fulfillment. Everyone gets what they want, creativity and effort is rewarded, and extends the life of the game proportional to the depth of modding supported.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 8, 2017 19:23:35 GMT
Well you prefer the former, but at the same time characterize the latter as 'this is art, buy it ya phlebs'... Not that I think it really matters, because I don't think the division is so simple, especially in such complex product. Art ain't just 'some artist's vision, now eat it and do so as I tell you!' thing, nor products made to please people can be just a product, not a work of art... nevermind that it's pretty much impossible to fulfill wishes of everyone. After all, 'players' aren't a monolith. The solution is simple and already proven. Make the base game for art, and support deep modding for wish fulfillment. Everyone gets what they want, creativity and effort is rewarded, and extends the life of the game proportional to the depth of modding supported. Unfortunately, Bioware hasn't really supported modding since NWN, and having voiced protagonists would make modding in character interactions EXTREMELY difficult.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 8, 2017 19:50:35 GMT
Well you prefer the former, but at the same time characterize the latter as 'this is art, buy it ya phlebs'... Not that I think it really matters, because I don't think the division is so simple, especially in such complex product. Art ain't just 'some artist's vision, now eat it and do so as I tell you!' thing, nor products made to please people can be just a product, not a work of art... nevermind that it's pretty much impossible to fulfill wishes of everyone. After all, 'players' aren't a monolith. The solution is simple and already proven. Make the base game for art, and support deep modding for wish fulfillment. Everyone gets what they want, creativity and effort is rewarded, and extends the life of the game proportional to the depth of modding supported. We have games like that. They're called TES games. Thing is, they aren't really trying to tell a long, deep, involved, multi-chapter story.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 8, 2017 20:58:09 GMT
The solution is simple and already proven. Make the base game for art, and support deep modding for wish fulfillment. Everyone gets what they want, creativity and effort is rewarded, and extends the life of the game proportional to the depth of modding supported. We have games like that. They're called TES games. Thing is, they aren't really trying to tell a long, deep, involved, multi-chapter story. DAO was like that, too. Being a multi-chaptered story doesn't prevent modding support. If people break their story, they can just repair/reload the vanilla game, just like when you break anything else when modding. I'm still 100% for Bioware/DICE releasing a toolkit with the next DA. But DICE doesn't seem to want to allow people to know that much about Frostbite for various reasons.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 8, 2017 21:16:49 GMT
We have games like that. They're called TES games. Thing is, they aren't really trying to tell a long, deep, involved, multi-chapter story. DAO was like that, too. Being a multi-chaptered story doesn't prevent modding support. If people break their story, they can just repair/reload the vanilla game, just like when you break anything else when modding. I'm still 100% for Bioware/DICE releasing a toolkit with the next DA. But DICE doesn't seem to want to allow people to know that much about Frostbite for various reasons. But not really DA2 anymore. And that was a game on same engine as DAO. There's more to modding support than just letting people have their way at the code. TES, Skyrim especially, has been built with modding in mind from grounds up; it isn't just an enjoyable perk.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 9, 2017 5:05:31 GMT
The solution is simple and already proven. Make the base game for art, and support deep modding for wish fulfillment. Everyone gets what they want, creativity and effort is rewarded, and extends the life of the game proportional to the depth of modding supported. I don't think this is the solution, because it is still showing the developer bias in regard to character sexuality. Being able to mod it doesn't change that. There is also the fact that modding is primarily a PC activity, which leaves out the majority playerbase of console users. In addition, there are many people like myself that don't feel comfortable modding the sexuality of a character*. Modding is not a solution in the least. Also, as stated, the voiced protagonist makes things more difficult. It's much easier to have a free love mod in DAO because you can just use all of the current lines spoken by the LI, which don't usually reference PC gender, while then allowing the PC access to all of the silent lines. The same can't be said for voiced protagonists, as shown with the DAI romance mods, because there will be chunks of missing dialogue. It's not a complete experience by any means. * People can do whatever they want in their own games, but it's not something I do. I don't even mod character appearance to any great degree. The developers made them as they are and I want to respect that vision. I simply want them to have a broader vision with how they regard character archetypes in regard to sexuality. I, and others, want that to come from the devs themselves.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 9, 2017 9:28:31 GMT
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 9, 2017 17:32:55 GMT
Emily (aka Domino) pentapod"Everything's so triangle-y!" #overheardintheoffice [HASH]DAT
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 9, 2017 17:34:16 GMT
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 9, 2017 17:34:50 GMT
Emily (aka Domino) pentapod"Everything's so triangle-y!" #overheardintheoffice Are they talking about elves?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 9, 2017 18:31:55 GMT
The solution is simple and already proven. Make the base game for art, and support deep modding for wish fulfillment. Everyone gets what they want, creativity and effort is rewarded, and extends the life of the game proportional to the depth of modding supported. Unfortunately, Bioware hasn't really supported modding since NWN, and having voiced protagonists would make modding in character interactions EXTREMELY difficult. Difficult, true, but not extremely, with some of the tech that is coming out these days. Solas x Solas Obama lip sync synthesis Obama/Bush iSpeech TTS WaveNet improved speech synthesis
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 9, 2017 18:59:15 GMT
The solution is simple and already proven. Make the base game for art, and support deep modding for wish fulfillment. Everyone gets what they want, creativity and effort is rewarded, and extends the life of the game proportional to the depth of modding supported. I don't think this is the solution, because it is still showing the developer bias in regard to character sexuality. Being able to mod it doesn't change that. There is also the fact that modding is primarily a PC activity, which leaves out the majority playerbase of console users. In addition, there are many people like myself that don't feel comfortable modding the sexuality of a character*. Modding is not a solution in the least. Crossed purposes. The solution I mentioned was in reference specifically to the problem posed by phoray and midnight tea . I wasn't addressing the problem of bias in character sexuality. Consoles can and do have modding, but I will acknowledge that it's much easier to create and use mods on PC.
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Post by phoray on Dec 9, 2017 19:05:10 GMT
I don't think this is the solution, because it is still showing the developer bias in regard to character sexuality. Being able to mod it doesn't change that. There is also the fact that modding is primarily a PC activity, which leaves out the majority playerbase of console users. In addition, there are many people like myself that don't feel comfortable modding the sexuality of a character*. Modding is not a solution in the least. Crossed purposes. The solution I mentioned was in reference specifically to the problem posed by phoray and midnight tea . I wasn't addressing the problem of bias in character sexuality. Consoles can and do have modding, but I will acknowledge that it's much easier to create and use mods on PC. And my comment wasn't about sexuality, per se. I'm too lazy to look up the Gaider comment I'd read that spurred my response, but it really had this, "Can't people see they're judging my VISION" kinda vibe to it that I don't appreciate.
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Post by blighted on Dec 10, 2017 0:14:31 GMT
Credit for the artist that the OP didn't include Emily (aka Domino) pentapod"Everything's so triangle-y!" #overheardintheoffice Dare I say... Tevinter?
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Dec 10, 2017 0:36:02 GMT
Unfortunately, Bioware hasn't really supported modding since NWN, and having voiced protagonists would make modding in character interactions EXTREMELY difficult. Solas x Solas
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 10, 2017 4:31:30 GMT
Emily (aka Domino) pentapod"Everything's so triangle-y!" #overheardintheoffice Are they talking about elves? I dunno. Dwarven architecture has a lot of angles to it. Also: Racist!
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 10, 2017 10:16:39 GMT
Are they talking about elves? I dunno. Dwarven architecture has a lot of angles to it. Also: Racist! Yea, but the it's based more on rectangles and trapezoids. And that's a new one. You elves are so... so... triangly!
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Post by pensieve on Dec 10, 2017 10:31:58 GMT
Not sure why you include the A in that acronym, then. Don't asexuals have as much in common with gay people as straight people? "We're here! We're (not actually) queer! We're not interested in having any more sex!" As an asexual myself, I can tell you that I really enjoy Bioware romances. My fav romance so far was actually Dorian*, followed by Josie**, Merrill**, Alistair, Cassandra*** and Morrigan. I also romanced Anders and Solas, but they weren't my cup of tea. (they're good, just don't have me go "AWW YES! SO CUTE". Solas's breakup made me laugh ) *I did choose the "Let's take it slow" dialogue, but only because I had barely made it to Skyhold and Dorian was basically occupying the Inquisitor's room and wouldn't let me change my casual wear without the romance scene. (he really loved my Inky... )
**I romanced both of them with a fem!Inky/Hawke respectively, for Merrill it was planned, for Josie it was not.
***I don't mind the sex scene in Cass's romance, but the poetry reading gives me second hand embarrassment. I'm asexual too and I really enjoy the romances as well! I don't mind the sexual content, I'm just not interested in sex when it involves myself I don't mind playing an Inquisitor (as long as he/she doesn't resemble me) who is interested in a sexual relationship with someone else.
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Post by Gilli on Dec 10, 2017 16:24:44 GMT
As an asexual myself, I can tell you that I really enjoy Bioware romances. My fav romance so far was actually Dorian*, followed by Josie**, Merrill**, Alistair, Cassandra*** and Morrigan. I also romanced Anders and Solas, but they weren't my cup of tea. (they're good, just don't have me go "AWW YES! SO CUTE". Solas's breakup made me laugh ) *I did choose the "Let's take it slow" dialogue, but only because I had barely made it to Skyhold and Dorian was basically occupying the Inquisitor's room and wouldn't let me change my casual wear without the romance scene. (he really loved my Inky... )
**I romanced both of them with a fem!Inky/Hawke respectively, for Merrill it was planned, for Josie it was not.
***I don't mind the sex scene in Cass's romance, but the poetry reading gives me second hand embarrassment. I'm asexual too and I really enjoy the romances as well! I don't mind the sexual content, I'm just not interested in sex when it involves myself I don't mind playing an Inquisitor (as long as he/she doesn't resemble me) who is interested in a sexual relationship with someone else. Same. My Inquisitors never resemble me (okay, they probably have my morals... ) they're characters with their own personality and sometimes their own head. (my male Lavellan was meant to romance Dorian, then Cassandra complimented him and he fell for her. )
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 10, 2017 19:09:35 GMT
John Epler @eplerjc I know that some people see the phrase 'soft skills' as condescending but, personally, soft skills are 90% of my job.
There are people with better technical knowledge, some with better creative ideas about specific things, but what I do is use soft skills to find compromises and make sure everyone is focusing down on specific, tangible things.
It's about everyone coming away from that process feeling appreciated and invested - like they've been listened to - and that's hard.
Because, ultimately, not everyone will always get what they want, but you want them to feel like they're heard while they build the thing that you need to build. That's 'soft skills' to me.
Ultimately, that's why I like being a lead - because I can enable talented people to build something together that feels like a consensus project.
The best thing you can do as a lead is to set a vision that your team can buy in to, provide guidance where necessary, remove obstacles, and course correct as appropriate.
Building content is fun, and you shouldn't get away from it completely, but it's not your primary job anymore. You are a force multiplier - you can make your team work effectively and efficiently enough to more than compensate for your absence on that front.
Anyways, just some Sunday at noon thoughts on game dev specifically, but leadership in general. Being a lead is a very specific set of skills, and promoting the most technically competent on that basis alone is often not a good solution.
I just ate a handful of peanut M&Ms for lunch so take my advice at your own risk.
[HASH]DAT
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 10, 2017 19:50:59 GMT
John Epler @eplerjcI know that some people see the phrase 'soft skills' as condescending but, personally, soft skills are 90% of my job. There are people with better technical knowledge, some with better creative ideas about specific things, but what I do is use soft skills to find compromises and make sure everyone is focusing down on specific, tangible things. It's about everyone coming away from that process feeling appreciated and invested - like they've been listened to - and that's hard. Because, ultimately, not everyone will always get what they want, but you want them to feel like they're heard while they build the thing that you need to build. That's 'soft skills' to me. Ultimately, that's why I like being a lead - because I can enable talented people to build something together that feels like a consensus project. The best thing you can do as a lead is to set a vision that your team can buy in to, provide guidance where necessary, remove obstacles, and course correct as appropriate. Building content is fun, and you shouldn't get away from it completely, but it's not your primary job anymore. You are a force multiplier - you can make your team work effectively and efficiently enough to more than compensate for your absence on that front. Anyways, just some Sunday at noon thoughts on game dev specifically, but leadership in general. Being a lead is a very specific set of skills, and promoting the most technically competent on that basis alone is often not a good solution. I just ate a handful of peanut M&Ms for lunch so take my advice at your own risk.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 11, 2017 17:21:16 GMT
As an asexual myself, I can tell you that I really enjoy Bioware romances. My fav romance so far was actually Dorian*, followed by Josie**, Merrill**, Alistair, Cassandra*** and Morrigan. I also romanced Anders and Solas, but they weren't my cup of tea. (they're good, just don't have me go "AWW YES! SO CUTE". Solas's breakup made me laugh ) *I did choose the "Let's take it slow" dialogue, but only because I had barely made it to Skyhold and Dorian was basically occupying the Inquisitor's room and wouldn't let me change my casual wear without the romance scene. (he really loved my Inky... )
**I romanced both of them with a fem!Inky/Hawke respectively, for Merrill it was planned, for Josie it was not.
***I don't mind the sex scene in Cass's romance, but the poetry reading gives me second hand embarrassment. I'm asexual too and I really enjoy the romances as well! I don't mind the sexual content, I'm just not interested in sex when it involves myself I don't mind playing an Inquisitor (as long as he/she doesn't resemble me) who is interested in a sexual relationship with someone else. To me, having to watch characters go around naked (especially in sex scenes) is just too voyeuristic.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 11, 2017 19:17:47 GMT
Also not all that keen on seeing naked pixel people here. Alistair's sex scene always made me feel super awkward. Anders' tasteful fade to black was ok. But what was with Blackwall's sex scene? I soooooo did not want to see full frontal Inquisitor nudity with no Blackwall butt or chest at all. I really appreciated there not being any sex scenes in the Solas romance. The kisses were quite amazing enough, thank you!
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Post by wright1978 on Dec 11, 2017 20:33:54 GMT
The only thing I hate more than a cheap fade to black in regards sex scenes is ambiguity/absence. Don’t see why nudity shouldn’t be present with sex, though if they can convey nature sex happening effectively without it such as issy’s in da2 I wouldn’t be wedded to it as mandatory.
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