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flyingsquirrel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Mar 21, 2017 14:21:09 GMT
Thought I'd start a thread to collect some of my thoughts as I progress through the game. I would love to hear what others think, but I would request that people not give away important plot or character points if you can tell I haven't gotten to them yet - I don't plow through games at the pace some seem to.
Most of the preset faces, especially for female Ryder, are pretty bad. The default is OK but it makes her neck look bizarrely long, and the generator doesn't allow me to edit the default appearance for some reason (I remember this happening with male Shepard in ME1/2 as well). Though actually, the Asian preset 1 face isn't bad, but unfortunately it reminds me of someone I know, which I'd find distracting, so I picked one of the other ones and after a couple tries designed one that I was happy with. I also don't much care for most of the hairstyles. The ponytails seem weirdly suspended in space, a couple of them seem like they'd partially block her field of vision, and at least one of the longer ones looks like she just woke up or got a really bad haircut. Finally, why can't we adjust eyebrow color to match hair color? None of this is game-breaking, but it seems like Bioware somehow managed to take something that was working reasonably well for Shepard and make it worse.
I actually like the idea of a purely exploration-based mission in theory, though I'm struggling with how this fits into the Mass Effect universe. For one thing, it seems nearly impossible that all this was planned and implemented in secret, which makes it hard to reconcile with it never being mentioned in the Shepard trilogy. You'd think that a trip to another galaxy would be a pretty prominent conversation topic, especially among characters who know that the Milky Way races could be facing extinction in the near future. Plus, the technology feels a little more advanced than what we saw in the first three games.
I gather that the Andromeda Initiative's funding and resources are a topic of some ambiguity. OK, *please* tell me this has nothing to do with Cerberus. I wasn't even that strongly in the "oh no, not Cerberus again" camp re: M3, but enough is enough with them. (On the other hand, is it possible that this *is* the Citadel races' backup plan to avert extinction via Reapers and most of the crew are in the dark about this? Though that would make them real speciesist assholes for leaving so many other races behind.)
I kind of like playing around with Ryder's scanner so far, though I can't tell yet if I'm adding to the codex or picking up XP for using it.
Acknowledging a cliche (in this case "hostile aliens who try to kill you the minute they see you") doesn't really make it less of a cliche. I know this is an action RPG, but did we really need to go down this route right off the bat? The Hyperion crew are in enough trouble just from running into the big energy barrier thing and having one of their shuttles crash-landing, so we don't have to get all shooty right away. And then Ryder is already saying (can't remember if it was a dialogue choice or auto-dialogue) that "peace isn't going to be possible here" or something like that. Because it's not as if humans ever had an initial conflict with another species that turned out to be a misunderstanding and the other species became an ally. *Cough* turians *cough* First Contact War *cough*.
Speaking of which, do my choices for Ryder's optional dialogue also end up shaping her autodialogue? I'd have liked to see if there's a way to avoid that "peace isn't going to be possible" line, except for...
...this stupid checkpoint system. Seriously, Bioware - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There was nothing wrong with letting us do quicksaves or regular saves in between combat scenes in the original trilogy. In fact, for a game with dialogue choices where we don't see the actual words that the player character is going to use, frequent saves are important for those of us who sometimes like to try out different dialogue options before proceeding. Why was it necessary to do this? Now, I guess I'd have to quit to the main menu and hope I have a recent enough checkpoint that I don't have to replay half a mission just to see the other options. And if I don't happen to notice when the autosave icon pops up, I don't know how much replaying I'm in for if I need to stop and quit quickly.
These aliens look a little like protheans. Probably just a coincidence and/or Bioware messing with us as opposed to an actual tie-in, I'm guessing.
I'm not sure why the species would decide to go on separate arks - it seems that their different cultural backgrounds and historical perspectives would help and complement each other when exploring this new galaxy. Given that they did, however, is there really just one single asari on the Hyperion with 20,000 humans? If the idea is that no human doctors are smart enough to do Lexi's job, then maybe humans shouldn't be undertaking this mission in the first place.
Despite all the above, I don't dislike the game so far, but it's not yet in "I can't wait to get back to that game!" territory. I might try replaying a bit of the first mission (which I had to stop in the middle of) to get a better feel for the dialogue and checkpoints and try to figure out what I can and can't influence as a player.
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August 2016
spacecowboy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 21, 2017 20:09:21 GMT
Apparently changing which quest is being tracked forces an auto save, so that may help. It sounds a little fiddly but better than nothing?
Apparently they are looking at patching it. No quick saves and all is just baffling.
I like the idea of giving your running thoughts!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Mar 22, 2017 4:30:53 GMT
Thanks, and good to know. I expected to find that quicksaves would at least be possible outside of the main missions. Not having them at all is just...weird. Did Bioware have a bunch of playtesters telling them, "I love this game, but once in a while I accidentally press F5 and it quicksaves and DAMMIT I HATE QUICKSAVES!"?
Anyway...got back to the game tonight and I'm feeling a little better about it. I was worried about how Ryder was going to end up in a leadership role (which I figured had to happen sooner or later), especially since she's only 22 according to the codex info, but having her father pick her for the SAM interface actually made some sense in context (though I'd still think some of the more experienced team members might push harder for some sort of shared authority). Speaking of SAM, one "shout-out" to the Shepard trilogy that I won't mind if it occurs is if SAM has the occasion to say, "That was a joke."
The Nexus is nicely designed, and I like the idea of its troubled recent history after arriving on its own and not being able to make contact with the arks, though it might work even better if more than just one year has passed. And props for having a human character be the impatient, anxious one and the female krogan be the voice of relative calm - looking forward to talking to her and getting to know more about her. The references to Clan Nakmoor and Nyreen were good examples of the right way to acknowledge the trilogy. (Though, did Nyreen really "go pirate" on Omega? I had the impression that she was just hanging out there to be with Aria but not doing anything criminal herself.)
I did replay the initial Habitat 7 mission and it appears that I'm stuck with that "peace isn't an option" line. I realize, because I'm playing a video game, that in fact the Kett probably *are* going to be implacably hostile 99% of the time, but it still feels like Ryder is jumping to conclusions given how little she knows about the situation.
I'm less impressed with how the technology is being explained in terms of its relationship to the Shepard trilogy. So someone invented a way to have an AI interface with a human brain for the purpose of these Pathfinder missions? And the Andromeda Initiative had the resources not just to build a station almost as large as the Citadel but launch it across 2.5 million light years of dark space to another galaxy? I don't buy that at all - it seems like all sorts of things should have been different back in the Milky Way if the technology is that advanced. Which again makes me dubious about the value of this as a Mass Effect game as opposed to a new IP, especially since the most important use of mass effect technology is probably the relays, which don't exist in Andromeda. As it is, this seems like an attempt to have the Citadel without actually having the Citadel.
But time will tell. Meanwhile, I gather I'm about to get my first sidequest from a distraught turian near Kandros' station. Which is fine, though I'm also hoping it won't be too long before I get a look at whatever ship I'm going to be using to travel around (assuming that the Hyperion is going to stay docked at the Nexus).
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Aug 17, 2016 20:09:17 GMT
August 2016
spacecowboy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 22, 2017 23:29:13 GMT
I hope you don't consider this a spoiler. You wills see your ship once you progress the main quest on the nexus. Also, there are a couple of quests you may want to pick up before leaving the Nexus. You've found one of them. I only played the 10 hour demo so this is fast reaching the end of my knowledge of the game anyway.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Mar 23, 2017 15:12:41 GMT
Yep. I did the sidequest about catching the saboteur on the Nexus and got as far as I could in the sidequests about the murder case and Ryder's memories without leaving the station, then set off for Eos.
I went around and talked to each of the crew members - not sure yet if they're going to be as interesting as the Normandy crew, but there was nothing particularly bad or irritating about them except the one guy who openly announces that he "has no real purpose" or something. Who actually talks like that to a stranger, much less a commanding officer? The ship itself is a nice design, though, and I like having the more panoramic views of space as opposed to the relatively small windows on the Normandy.
I'm only part of the way through Eos - I stopped and saved shortly after Peebee showed up. I realize, though, that in some ways the game is starting to remind me a little bit of No Man's Sky in terms of the aesthetics and the emphasis on exploring unknown worlds. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - I still think the concept behind NMS wasn't bad, but the lack of narrative momentum and the repetition of going around scanning plants and animals made its appeal wear off for me after a little while. Here we at least have a story, and one that's nicely set up to allow for diversions since any unexpected discovery could turn out to be important to the Initiative's survival. I also like the subplot of the Ryder/SAM interface so far, though I do question the decision to make Ryder only 22 years old.
However, I am now officially calling bullshit on the backstory tie-in to the Shepard trilogy. Let's look at what we now have to assume was going on:
1) The Alliance knew that Alec Ryder was involved in illegal AI research, and all they do is dishonorably discharge him? I'm assuming that the "Ambassador Goyle" who's chewing him out in the flashback is supposed to be the character from one of the Karpyshyn tie-in novels, and IIRC, the Alliance was in big, *big* trouble with the Council species over illegal AI research in that novel. How did Alec not only escape prosecution, but manage to take his research to a major groundbreaking project that everybody knows about?
2) Speaking of which - the Alliance knew about the Intitiative, and in all likelihood, so did the asari, salarian, and turian governments. Even the *quarians*, who are almost politically powerless before the ME3 Rannoch mission, knew about it and were planning to lead another ark with some additional species at one point. Liara herself knew about it before she ever met Shepard (the audio recordings from her to Ryder seem to have come from when she was still working on her own as a prothean researcher). But without exception, no one in the Milky Way ever breathes a word about it? Nobody suggests, in response to Shepard's claims about the Reapers, using the Initiative's scanning technology to see if they're out there in dark space somewhere? Liara and Shepard never talk about when contemplating the possibility of extinction in ME3? This would be like if Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking announced that they'd invented time travel and the world collectively said, "Oh, that's nice," yawned, and went back to watching reality TV and laughing at cats on YouTube.
(Actually, wait - maybe that's exactly what we would do.)
3) More specifically, the Initiative's technology does seem a step above what we saw in the trilogy. I'll give them a pass on the SAM interface, given that it would have been considered illegal, but the construction and space travel technology must be more advanced for them to have been able to pull this off. I gather that the Nexus was probably sent in pieces, but the pieces must have still been pretty big for them to have gotten as far as they did in just a year, not to mention what must have been a fairly reliable cryostasis system. Even if you assume that the Initiative played things close to the vest, wouldn't the scientists who stayed behind be in pretty high demand for their expertise once the ships have launched? Wouldn't there have been some discussion of using Initiative tech against the Reapers in ME3?
4) Smaller point, but Alec Ryder has a model of the Normandy SR-2 in his quarters. But if the Initiative launched in 2185, wouldn't the existence of the SR-2 have been a secret at the time? The Council and Alliance seem to be trying to say as little as possible about Shepard's return in ME2, and once Shepard does turn the ship over, the SR-2 presumably would have been widely seen as a symbol of Cerberus until the Alliance repurposed it, and then we're at the start of the Reaper War.
So I guess I'll just have to assume that this is some alternate universe where the characters and plot from the Shepard trilogy do exist but the actual events didn't play out exactly the way we saw in ME1-3. That aside, I'm getting more interested in the story and characters after the somewhat shaky beginning on Habitat 7.
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They call me a Space Cowboy
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Aug 17, 2016 20:09:17 GMT
August 2016
spacecowboy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 23, 2017 19:28:30 GMT
Yeah the whole backstory, including the way they scanned the golden worlds was a little dodgy. I guess they are hoping we just hand wave it and get on with the new story?
I thought there was one more side quest that pointed you to Eos. Perhaps not. Oh, collecting stuff for scientists on the nexus maybe?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Mar 24, 2017 14:54:33 GMT
That sounds right. I basically got to a point where almost all the unfinished quests were pointing me to Eos.
I met Drack when he killed one of the Kett attack animals in a building I was exploring. I'm assuming he turns up again later? Otherwise I must have missed the dialogue choice that brings him into the crew. I finished the main questline involving the monoliths, and the underground vault was impressively designed, though perhaps a little too long given that I'm not doing much besides running, jumping, and pressing buttons on consoles. I'm a little surprised that this "Archon" guy that I've heard about (and who, I assume, is the game's Big Bad) hasn't turned up yet. I'm not always a fan of these "Ancient Evil Returned" concepts in which The World Is Going To End and the main character is The Only One Who Can Save Us, so I'm not sure whether to be relieved that the story hasn't been hijacked by that sort of thing or brace myself for it to happen later.
A few minor gameplay oddities that I'm curious if anyone else has encountered:
- Occasionally someone will blurt out some autodialogue that doesn't make sense or seems like it's "triggered" by something that I can't find. A couple times either Ryder or Cora announced something along the lines of "Get ready to fight!" even though I couldn't see any enemies and there were no red markers up at the top of the screen, and later Liam said (paraphrased) "He died for the Initiative and we left him here." But I didn't see any bodies on the ground, nor did I find any when I checked with the scanner. Has anybody else encountered this?
- I had thought that the "Press ALT to look" function was supposed to work like the eyeball icon with the "V" key did in ME3, but half the time when I see the prompt, pressing ALT doesn't actually do anything, or if it does, it's unclear what I'm supposed to be looking at when the camera does move.
- The actresses for female Ryder and Cora Harper sound fairly similar at times, with the result that when I'm in the Nomad or moving around in the over-the-shoulder POV, I can't always tell which of them is talking.
- Am I imagining things, or does the Nomad really have no weapons at all? Seems like a pretty big oversight for a project that was clearly ready for the possibility of encountering hostile life forms.
In general, I think maybe BW tried to reinvent the wheel a little too much with the gameplay. With the exception of the "Profiles" function and the jetpacks, not many of the changes actually add anything to the ME2/3 combat/maneuvering system. At least IMO.
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They call me a Space Cowboy
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Aug 17, 2016 20:09:17 GMT
August 2016
spacecowboy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 24, 2017 17:37:38 GMT
I did notice your oddities, yes. I agree with all. The nomad and Tempest have no weapons. I ran over a few enemies with the nomad though. No xp or loot when you do that, I don't think.
Other than that, you've reached the point where I stopped playing, so can't add any hints going forward. I imagine you'll see Drack again soon enough.
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flyingsquirrel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Mar 27, 2017 15:41:39 GMT
Made some headway in the main quest over the weekend, and I'm starting to like this game more than I thought I would when I first started it. Putting aside the whole premise of how the Milky Way species got to Andromeda in the first place, this is actually closer to what I suspect contact with extraterrestrials might be like if humans invent interstellar travel and FTL spaceflight some day. That is, rather than finding an already-established galactic civilization, we might discover only sporadic intelligent life without any sort of interplanetary government that they all recognize, and we might have trouble communicating effectively with them, at least at first.
If it were up to me, I'd probably make the Kett simply evasive and unpredictable rather than aggressive and hostile every time we meet them. Maybe *sometimes* they open fire on the Andromeda Initiative people as soon as they see them, but maybe other times they just run away, or they bark incomprehensible threats but the AIers are able to retreat without a firefight. If they just need to give us something to shoot at, the Remnant fit that role since they don't seem to be sapient. Speaking of which, I rolled my eyes a little bit at how, five minutes after arriving on the Angara homeworld, we were being shot at by isolationist raiders. Then again, I suppose this has been an inherent tension in Mass Effect all along - the stories emphasize mutual respect and interspecies cooperation, but many of the conflicts are solved partly by shooting.
The Nexus subplots are holding up pretty well so far, and assuming that the game is trying to keep me guessing as to what the outcomes will be for the various decisions, it's doing a decent job of it so far. The protesters who are waiting for their families to be revived have a legitimate complaint, for example, and yet I didn't think I could agree to their demands without causing even more chaos. The one bit I wasn't sure about was a dialogue choice where this one guy is scared to go back to Eos and Ryder can either tell him it's safe or it isn't. I played Ryder as telling him it was safe and actually meaning it (the Kett and the wildlife seem to be leaving Prodromos alone whenever I'm there), so I hope that this wasn't meant to be a deliberate lie on Ryder's part.
The portrayal of the Milky Way species in the "cultural exchange" center seemed a bit sanitized, which again makes me wonder if there's something a little shady about the Andromeda Initiative and why the expedition was launched.
The one area where I feel like the game is falling a little short so far is in the portrayal of the crew - I've been playing for about 15 hours and I still don't have that great a sense of who these people really are and what they're invested in, particularly Vetra, Cora, and Liam. Peebee's flightiness is evident, but I've yet to see any real deep intellectual curiosity from a character labeled a "rogue academic." Drack is another take on the "old, blustery krogan" persona that we saw from Wrex, but it's OK for what it is and I like his relationship with his granddaughter. I like Suvi's sense of wonder, and the Kallo/Gil arguments are amusing, but again, what's really driving that? Is Gil just a grouch?
Maybe this is where a plot centered around discovering and confronting the unknown can make it harder to develop the characters. In the Shepard trilogy, most of the conflicts and key plot points paralleled social issues and personal dynamics that parallel real life, so it was easier to understand the characters based on their reactions to these things. Here, everyone's a bit out of their element, and some may not have any close friends or family who came with them, so it's harder to get a read on them.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Mar 29, 2017 15:17:17 GMT
Well, this reincarnation angle with the Angara and the Roekaar leader is interesting. Unless I'm forgetting something, Mass Effect has always stayed resolutely neutral on the question of whether the supernatural exists, and bringing him the artifact from his alleged past life does seem to have an effect on him. I'm curious now to see if the game leaves this open for interpretation or if more of a clearly supernatural or scientific explanation is eventually shown to be correct.
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Posts: 334 Likes: 168
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Post by laxian on Mar 29, 2017 17:37:40 GMT
Yep. I did the sidequest about catching the saboteur on the Nexus and got as far as I could in the sidequests about the murder case and Ryder's memories without leaving the station, then set off for Eos. I went around and talked to each of the crew members - not sure yet if they're going to be as interesting as the Normandy crew, but there was nothing particularly bad or irritating about them except the one guy who openly announces that he "has no real purpose" or something. Who actually talks like that to a stranger, much less a commanding officer? The ship itself is a nice design, though, and I like having the more panoramic views of space as opposed to the relatively small windows on the Normandy. I'm only part of the way through Eos - I stopped and saved shortly after Peebee showed up. I realize, though, that in some ways the game is starting to remind me a little bit of No Man's Sky in terms of the aesthetics and the emphasis on exploring unknown worlds. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - I still think the concept behind NMS wasn't bad, but the lack of narrative momentum and the repetition of going around scanning plants and animals made its appeal wear off for me after a little while. Here we at least have a story, and one that's nicely set up to allow for diversions since any unexpected discovery could turn out to be important to the Initiative's survival. I also like the subplot of the Ryder/SAM interface so far, though I do question the decision to make Ryder only 22 years old. However, I am now officially calling bullshit on the backstory tie-in to the Shepard trilogy. Let's look at what we now have to assume was going on: 1) The Alliance knew that Alec Ryder was involved in illegal AI research, and all they do is dishonorably discharge him? I'm assuming that the "Ambassador Goyle" who's chewing him out in the flashback is supposed to be the character from one of the Karpyshyn tie-in novels, and IIRC, the Alliance was in big, *big* trouble with the Council species over illegal AI research in that novel. How did Alec not only escape prosecution, but manage to take his research to a major groundbreaking project that everybody knows about? 2) Speaking of which - the Alliance knew about the Intitiative, and in all likelihood, so did the asari, salarian, and turian governments. Even the *quarians*, who are almost politically powerless before the ME3 Rannoch mission, knew about it and were planning to lead another ark with some additional species at one point. Liara herself knew about it before she ever met Shepard (the audio recordings from her to Ryder seem to have come from when she was still working on her own as a prothean researcher). But without exception, no one in the Milky Way ever breathes a word about it? Nobody suggests, in response to Shepard's claims about the Reapers, using the Initiative's scanning technology to see if they're out there in dark space somewhere? Liara and Shepard never talk about when contemplating the possibility of extinction in ME3? This would be like if Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking announced that they'd invented time travel and the world collectively said, "Oh, that's nice," yawned, and went back to watching reality TV and laughing at cats on YouTube. (Actually, wait - maybe that's exactly what we would do.) 3) More specifically, the Initiative's technology does seem a step above what we saw in the trilogy. I'll give them a pass on the SAM interface, given that it would have been considered illegal, but the construction and space travel technology must be more advanced for them to have been able to pull this off. I gather that the Nexus was probably sent in pieces, but the pieces must have still been pretty big for them to have gotten as far as they did in just a year, not to mention what must have been a fairly reliable cryostasis system. Even if you assume that the Initiative played things close to the vest, wouldn't the scientists who stayed behind be in pretty high demand for their expertise once the ships have launched? Wouldn't there have been some discussion of using Initiative tech against the Reapers in ME3? 4) Smaller point, but Alec Ryder has a model of the Normandy SR-2 in his quarters. But if the Initiative launched in 2185, wouldn't the existence of the SR-2 have been a secret at the time? The Council and Alliance seem to be trying to say as little as possible about Shepard's return in ME2, and once Shepard does turn the ship over, the SR-2 presumably would have been widely seen as a symbol of Cerberus until the Alliance repurposed it, and then we're at the start of the Reaper War. So I guess I'll just have to assume that this is some alternate universe where the characters and plot from the Shepard trilogy do exist but the actual events didn't play out exactly the way we saw in ME1-3. That aside, I'm getting more interested in the story and characters after the somewhat shaky beginning on Habitat 7. Nope the tech of the A.I. is kind of worse (at least in terms of armaments - even hand-weapons are the worst things you can find (Predator pistols and Avengers? Damned, I would't even arm a fucking police unit with those, not even a night guard at a company should have such a bad gun!))...the only things that are more advanced seem to be the drive systems (the normal ones cook the crew if they aren't discharged into a planets magnetic field after a certain amount of time) and those protection fields against radiation etc. (normal Mass Effect fields shouldn't protect from that) Well, as for Alec? If TIM was involved in the A.I. then a model of the SR-2 isn't out of the question You mean till the Alliance STOLE it (from Shepard - who in turn stole it from Cerberus...still stealing from terrorists has to be ok, but stealing from a council SPECTRE? I don't think so, my Shepard would not have let them take the ship (paragon or not, that's MY SHIP!) if given the option...then again: None of my Sheps would have gone "home" in order to be fucking locked up....there's a war to prepare, no time to play Alliance pawn just to appease the Batarians (who are a toothless tiger anyway - their economy is in shambles! The only thing keeping them half-way affloat is fucking slavery! Let them attack, the Alliance can take them - not to mention that certain fellows would help my Shepard in that case!) As for the Nexus: It arrived with one "wing" (one of those giant habitation decks) almost finished (considering that the supposed destitute guys on the Nexus did a superb job trying to finish the station!) So, I am going back to my second run - see yah guys greetings LAX ps: This time you aren't getting away Avitus you fucking drunk - no more Mr. Nice Guy for you mate!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Apr 3, 2017 17:01:44 GMT
Haven't had as much time for ME:A this past week, but I still mostly like what I'm seeing. The one aspect that can be a little slow is all the driving around scanning rocks, recovering probes, and otherwise doing paint-by-numbers planetside sidequests. Still, most of these haven't been taking too long, and there's at least a little character interaction when I run into people like Zaeed's son or the Nexus exiles who ditched the outlaws. In any case, it hasn't yet reached the tedium level of DA:I, so here's hoping that it doesn't.
I still don't have as strong a sense of the personalities of the Tempest crew as I did for any of the Normandy crew, though at this point it's hard to separate out what I thought of the Normandy crew the first time I played ME1 and how I've come to perceive them through multiple playthroughs. So maybe I'll have a better understanding of them by the end or after a second run (and so far I do like the game enough to want to play it again after I finish it). The Nexus is turning out to be a pretty good hub, and Ryder getting involved in all the goings-on there actually feels a little more natural than all the times Shepard just happens to stumble across people arguing or freaking out about something. I also like the "on hold" dynamic, which helps to keep from too many things piling up at once and accounts for the fact that not every problem will necessarily have an immediate solution.
I did the mission rescuing the Moshae from the Kett temple on Voeld. While "exaltation" might seem like a rehash of Reaper harvesting at first glance, I think there's potential for a different "spin" on this. The Reapers were collective intelligences whose level of free will was questionable and rarely engaged with individuals through anything other than aloof pontification, whereas the female Kett that you confront at the end seemed to have more of an understandable individual personality, and I don't get the impression that the Archon is a superbeing on the level of the Reapers or the Catalyst. And there are still plenty of unknowns about the origins of the Remnant and the Scourge for now.
I like Voeld as an environment, but one minor complaint: I recall that in the Shepard trilogy, Shepard and the squadmates would automatically have their helmets on in hazardous environments even if they were otherwise set as "off" in the preferences. Here I have to go back and change it myself if I don't want Ryder walking around with her face exposed when the temperature is something like -50C.
A question for those further along in the game - will the Outlaws ever become more of a presence than an occasional reference in a sidequest and a multiplayer enemy? (A simple "yes" or "no" would be much appreciated - if the answer is yes, I don't want to know when or how just yet. Thanks!)
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Apr 11, 2017 18:59:44 GMT
I think I've completed almost all the Voeld missions now, so I headed off to Aya (good new hub) to take the Moshae home and meet with some of the "bigwigs" like Efvra and the Governor. Liam's loyalty mission confused me a little - I wasn't sure how or when he became friends with Verand or how secretly scanning the hostile merchant's goods was supposed to help find her, plus the final outcome was bugged the first time I finished it (Ryder and Liam talk about detaining Verand even though I had said to let her go home). I didn't much like having to replay the entire final mission on board the pirates' refurbished ship because the game didn't allow manual saves, but the mission itself probably reminded me more of a "traditional" Mass Effect mission than much of the content that I've seen up until now. I was kind of hoping that the pirate leader would turn out to be something more than just a jerk with a gun, but it seemed like they were trying to play him for comedy.
One thing I do appreciate about this game is that there is a real sense of situations and attitudes actually changing in response to Ryder's progress in securing resources and space for the Initiative. There are members of ark species at the research facility when I return to Havarl, many of the angara have heard of Ryder's doings by the time of the second Aya visit, and sometimes re-using an old dialogue choice with a crew member will result in a new comment based on what's been happening lately. I'm curious to see if the cold starts to let up noticeably on Voeld before the end of the game.
It seems like the other shoe has finally dropped regarding the shady origins of the Andromeda Initiative with the revelation that Jien Garson was murdered. It's an interesting subplot, though again one that I'm not sure really fits with the Shepard trilogy. I'm assuming that what we're going to find out is that someone who knew something about the Reapers decided to help fund the Initiative as an escape hatch for some of the Milky Way species. However, there was also some old memo or journal entry dated to 2179. Who, other than Saren and his followers, knew about the Reapers in 2179? Meanwhile, Ryder seems completely in the dark about the idea that anyone in the Milky Way was expecting trouble as of 2185, but hadn't word of Shepard's claims at least spread somewhat throughout the Alliance? Ken and Gabby knew as of ME2, and they don't seem likely to have had especially high-level clearance. I get that most people didn't take it seriously, but it seems like it at least ought to cross Ryder's mind since she was in the Alliance.
All that aside, one chilling possibility comes to mind here. If the Initiative was "compromised," and the mysterious benefactor knew about SAM...does that mean that SAM - who has access to Ryder's mind - might also be compromised? Because that...would not be good. Ryder either seems unaware of the possibility or unfazed by it, but I'd be freaking out if I were in her shoes!
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Apr 17, 2017 15:46:18 GMT
Got to Kadara this weekend, and I sort of had the impression that this was going to be a turning point towards the end of the game, but given the number of new missions that popped up when I set foot back on the Tempest, apparently I was wrong. (One thing I wouldn't mind being spoiled on - are any of these missions "timed" such that they automatically fail if I don't do them quickly enough?)
Kadara is a decent enough setting between the port, the slums, and the badlands. The main drawback to it is the one reservation I still have about the game in general. That is, going to Andromeda seems to have been primarily a way to keep doing Mass Effect stories without having to deal with all the baggage of the Shepard trilogy. While it seems likely that the Initiative's mysterious "benefactor" was seeking a way to prevent extinction-by-Reapers, most of the participants seem to have joined simply because exploration is cool and/or things weren't going that well for them in the Milky Way. The characters and subplots that we're coming across aren't that different from those of the Shepard trilogy, and if the Nexus was a way to have the Citadel without having the Citadel, Kadara seems like a way to have Omega without having Omega.
This is also an example of why having more than a year elapse between the arrival of the Nexus and the Hyperion's arrival there might have been better. Sloane Kelly has not only defected from the Nexus, but set up a criminal protection racket, established relations with angara, and spawned an internal revolt in the form of the Collective? And just how many people were on the Nexus in the first place? Given how often Ryder's team gets attacked by Raiders in the badlands, there seem to have been dozens of Nexus exiles who have started acting like total sociopaths who kill anything that moves. Didn't the Initiative have any kind of psychological screenings to keep these folks out? Presenting this whole situation as a fait accompli when only a year has passed just seems like stretching it.
That's not to say that the sidequests aren't interesting. The game does a good job of making me not quite sure who to trust in questlines like the turian who's been selling a weapons cache location to multiple "customers," all of Reyes Vidal's shenanigans, and the doctor treating the addicts whose ex-partner claims he was in on the plan to make their drug addictive. (On the downside, I neither expected nor particularly wanted to see cannibalism in a Mass Effect game - again, wouldn't the Initiative have screened out these kinds of psychos?)
I actually decided to head back to the Nexus after finishing the first round of the Kadara quests, because I figured that shutting down whatever Spender is up to and recovering more of Alec Ryder's memories might be the most important priorities - if the Initiative is compromised by Spender and/or by the "benefactor," that could affect pretty much everything else we're doing. However, I then got caught up in the "Contagion" sidequest, which was pretty good except for all the system-hopping - even the *shuttles* for the Initiative can make multiple FTL jumps in that short of a time period? I was a little worried that the game was going to make *me* choose between shooting Ruth and letting an outbreak start, so the decision of what to do about the hostage situation almost felt like a relief by comparison. In some ways I miss having the "blue" options that get everybody out alive; on the other hand, neither of the choices for Ryder here were an obvious overreaction like some of Renegade Shepard's choices were.
I hadn't really intended to go back to Kadara as soon as that, but I decided to go ahead and do the remaining sidequests as long as I was there, then headed back to the Nexus again. Hopefully I can get down to the business of reviewing the latest recovered memory and figuring out what the "benefactor" is up to and why.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Apr 17, 2017 17:46:22 GMT
However, I am now officially calling bullshit on the backstory tie-in to the Shepard trilogy. Yep, the tie-in to the Milky Way is weak. It's very hard to do a tie-in with the ME3 endings and with the fact that ME3 was planned to be the last game in the franchise. BUT, I think there was a way out. That famous Asari counselor quote ("Continuity of civilization to consider") gave the best opening to follow up. The AI should have been Asari centric and smaller scale, they already hid the fact that there is a Prothean beacon feeding them information to keep themselves ahead. ME:A maybe should have opened with the Reaper invasion, that would have been more explosive opening.
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Post by Amirit on Apr 17, 2017 18:49:41 GMT
The whole "criminal activity" line makes me cry (truly, it looks like the only screening AI made was the one "have you ever being in jail" with a positive answer as a "go"). One of the thing you have to simply accept and never let yourself think about it.
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Post by warlorejohn on Apr 17, 2017 21:32:09 GMT
Actually the whole crazy thing is explained farther in game.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 19, 2017 4:03:09 GMT
Actually the whole crazy thing is explained farther in game. I'm not saying that everything in the game is airtight, but most of flyingsquirrel's cited concerns are addressed in-game. He started this thread on 3/21 as a running commentary, so I'm assuming that he's discovered this by now. Many of the things he found troubling in the narrative are clearly explained, and believably so, in-game. In some cases it seems they were missed; in others the answers just hadn't yet been encountered. Again, I'm not saying everything is perfect, just that a great many of the things mentioned are clearly addressed, in a logical and believable manner, in-game.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Apr 24, 2017 15:20:30 GMT
Anyhow. Wrapped up on Kadara and headed back to the Nexus again, but the next unlocked memory was about Ryder's mother's death as opposed to anything about the benefactor. As a player, I'm still both (a) nervous that I'm about to open some sort of Trojan Horse and ( uncertain as to whether Ryder is aware of how deeply compromised the Initiative could be, particularly if SAM isn't being 100% transparent (or can't be because of program blocks like EDI originally had). So I headed off to Elaaden to investigate the Krogan colony. Krogan politics are usually interesting, and I suspected that some sort of double-cross was waiting when I set off on the mission to recover the drive core from the crashed Remnant ship. I half-expected either (a) Strux and/or Morda to show and attack me once I found the thing or ( *both* of them insisting on making a bomb out of it and me having to choose which one of them I trusted with it. I made a deal with Morda to let her use the core to power her colony in return for the Initiative establishing an outpost there. I don't think the Initiative needs another entire planet on difficult terms with them in addition to Kadara, and I'm generally of the opinion that the krogan were treated unfairly by the other Milky Way species, so I liked being able to resolve this favorably for both sides. IIRC, Nakmor were at least sort of participating in Wrex's plan on Tuchanka in ME2, so I don't think they're likely to start an unnecessary war. (Though I gather that Tann is going to be pissed at me next time I go back to the Nexus.) While it hasn't gotten as annoying as DAI, some aspects of the driving around and the sidequests are getting old at this point. I think open worlds work better when the game is "pure" open world (as in Fallout 3/NV or The Witcher 3) and the storyline isn't as focused on establishing or securing territory. Both DA:I and ME:A are a sort of hybrid between open worlds and self-contained missions, and it tends to screw up the pacing and fall into a pattern of doing the same things repeatedly, just in different locations. Elaaden would have been better if it were the size of, say, Feros, with the main quest being the search for the drive core, the vault and a few of the other krogan-focused sidequests mixed in along the way, and then the quest line would be finished once Morda and the other krogan are on good political terms with the Nexus and the planet's atmosphere is stable. I do enjoy the vaults, at least aside from the occasional glyph that's parked in some ridiculously difficult-to-access location. However, I wonder if they could be improved if we picked up some small clues along the way about the creators of the Remnant and how their civilization functioned. It seems more likely that we're headed for a single Big Reveal late in the game from how things are going so far. I don't always have the best memory for these things - did I actually talk to this Avitus guy at some point? I found some clues about what happened to the turian ark on Elaaden, and next thing I know I'm talking to him on the vidcomm as if he's somebody I know, but I honestly can't remember him. I had to roll my eyes a bit at one sidequest on Elaaden: a scavenger named Barrett and a couple of his friends are hiding out in a small building in the desert and say they're tired of the other scavengers being violent...so he wants me to go kill a bunch of scavengers somewhere so that he can take over their base? With that logic, he'll probably be a guest star on The Walking Dead soon. I have a ton of active quests right now, so unless a quest is a clear case of "do this right now or somebody's going to die," I'm trying to complete as many quests as possible in a single location before moving on, especially since half the time my first stop doesn't actually resolve the problem anyway. I hope none of these are timed quests that are going to expire on me. Have others been doing the same thing, or do you jump around between systems and planets more?
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Post by melbella on Apr 25, 2017 0:40:12 GMT
flyingsquirrel
Enjoying the commentary so far.
I don't recall anything being timed - everything waits for the Pathfinder.
Avitus is the leader of the turian camp you run into on Havarl, where you fight Roekaar for the first time. I'm assuming you did that, otherwise, he wouldn't be available for the vid call.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on May 3, 2017 18:53:19 GMT
Thanks, melbella. And yes, I had met Avitus before now that you describe him - I'd just forgotten his name.
I've mostly been doing loyalty missions and odds and ends over the past week, but a few things worth commenting on:
I sort of accidentally ended up siding with Sloane Kelly in her ongoing conflict with the Charlatan, now revealed to be Reyes Vidal, though I wasn't quite aware that I was doing so at the time. I warned her when the sniper was about to shoot her and didn't kill Reyes Vidal while he was running away, but more out of a general aversion to assassinations and/or shooting an unarmed fugitive than because I necessarily preferred leaving her in charge of Kadara. Though, Reyes Vidal's behavior didn't exactly make him seem trustworthy either. It felt a bit like a choice in one of the Witcher games where your choice of allies is between Ruthless Bastard #1 and Ruthless Bastard #2.
Kann, much to my surprise, had nothing at all to say about my handing the drive core over to Morda and making a deal with her for support of the Nexus / Andromeda Initiative. I had thought he might be upset with me because of his general attitude towards the krogan, but there weren't any new dialogue options when I went back to the Nexus and talked to him.
I remember, back on the old board, commenting on Mass Effect's predilections for peaceful resolutions with double-digit body counts, but as someone who does in fact pick the peaceful resolutions, Peebee's loyalty mission was perhaps the weirdest example yet. While it's clear there's bitterness and resentment between Peebee and Kalinda, I didn't get the impression that they truly hated each other or that Kalinda wanted Peebee dead. And yet, apparently she tells her mercs to attack Peebee and Ryder with what I can only assume are shoot-to-kill orders. Then, at the end of the mission when Kalinda ends up hanging from the platform and about to fall into the lava, Peebee declares that she doesn't want Kalinda to die even though she had no problem shooting at Kalinda's mercs.
I let Peebee save Kalinda, but does this whole situation strike only me as kind of bass-ackwards and illogical? Kalinda going from taunting and undermining Peebee to trying to have her killed is a huge turn for the character, and it seems like there would have been a point where Peebee and Ryder could have just decided, "You know what, this is stupid - I'm not going to kill somebody just to get in that cave, and I'm not prepared to risk our lives for it either." If the mercs were actual people and not just cardboard-cutout video game baddies, isn't it possible that they would have allowed Ryder's squad to just turn around and leave? If Bioware thought there had to be combat all through this mission, why not just have more Remnant attackers inside?
Next up is that planet titled something like HC-047 to look for the turian ark and some other missions still sitting in my queue.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on May 8, 2017 19:07:19 GMT
So, some interesting developments from the last few times I've played the game.
Found the turian ark, and Avitus was despondent over the death of their Pathfinder and didn't want to take the job himself. I chose not to talk him into it, figuring that he may be too distracted to do it, but now it seems that the turians are bogged down in an internal process to choose a new successor. HC-047 itself was a relatively brief visit, even including Vetra's loyalty mission.
Speaking of which, while I appreciated the relationship between Vetra and her sister Sid, the underlying concept - that Sid is disturbed by all the violence and combat, and that Vetra feels the need to shield her from it and has perhaps become "hardened" in a way she might not want to happen to her sister - is kind of dissonant with the rest of the Mass Effect series. At times when playing the original trilogy, I did actually wonder how even the more idealistic and/or empathetic crew members such as Kaidan, Tali, Kasumi, Jacob, pre-ME2 Liara, and most Paragon Shepards were able to deal with all the fighting and killing and still be relatively pleasant, well-adjusted people away from the battlefield. In a weird way, the series got away with it by simply not acknowledging the issue and leaving us to imagine that they must have their own ways to handle it, but now it feels like more of an open question. So even though Vetra and Sid are both written well, I'm not sure it's the best idea for the writers to open this particular can of worms.
On the positive side with regard to loyalty missions, Cora's garden and Jaal's introduction of Ryder to his family were two of the better character moments I've seen in the game thus far. I don't feel the same connection to the ME:A characters that I did to the trilogy characters, but these scenes I might actually place up there alongside, say, shooting bottles with Garrus in ME3.
A couple other "big decisions": I also boarded the Archon's ship to free the salarians, and ended up choosing to rescue the krogan scouts, though at the time it sounded like the salarian Pathfinder was the only one in trouble, so I basically made the decision based on numbers. However, what I've heard since then sounds more like several salarians died. Tann was upset with me about this, though actually not as upset as I thought he might be. I also turned down the deal with the renegade Kett leader who's opposing the Archon, though less because I inherently distrust kett (as Ryder's dialogue implied) than because it wasn't clear what she wanted in return and she seemed intent on continuing with exaltations. Plus, of my squadmates, Jaal was strongly against it and Peebee was just kinda sorta for it, and I generally see her as a little too flighty and impulsive. But I'd actually be open to a peace treaty with the kett where they keep some planets but stop with the abductions and exaltations.
Back on the Nexus, Scott finally woke up, and SAM's final memory fragment has unlocked, revealing that Garson, Alec Ryder, and the "benefactor" did have some knowledge of the likely Reaper invasion. And I'll admit that the game surprised the heck out of me with the revelation that their mother is still alive and in cryostasis. I must say, though, that I'm starting to dislike Alec - he was engaging in illegal research, he kept Ellen's survival a secret from his children, and he sat on this information about the Reapers even though it seems like the Milky Way could have used some of the Initiative's technology in the war. When I went to his quarters and saw that one of the newly accessible audio logs was a transmission from Liara, I thought to myself, "Oh crap, they're canonizing Refuse?" (I thought maybe it was going to be her final log from the EC Refuse ending.) Fortunately it's a little more ambiguous than that.
Once again, I'm not sure this really squares with continuity from the trilogy. Shepard is described as "investigating" in 2183, but it almost seems like Ryder has no idea that Shepard was anybody important and may not have even heard the name before. ME2 seemed to establish pretty well that Shepard was widely seen as a hero of the Battle of the Citadel who did much more than "investigate" and had become a celebrity of sorts. And Liara never mentioning the Initiative still doesn't square with her apparent familiarity with it and contact with Alec.
Not sure yet what to think about Ryder and the other Pathfinders having to go against the Initiative to find Meridian - it feels a little like a re-hash of the Normandy being grounded before Ilos in ME1. And it seems like they're building up to Meridian as the endgame, but there are a few unresolved subplots still hanging around - we still don't know who the "benefactor" is and why Garson was murdered, the asari reporter has been imprisoned but seems to be awaiting developments that might get her out, and on a smaller point, the Tempest crew haven't had their movie night yet. So maybe this is just the beginning of the end rather than the actual end. Still, I think I'm going to do Vetra's side mission on Kadara (she just says she has "something cool" to show me there) first just in case.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on May 22, 2017 14:36:42 GMT
Finally finished the main quest this past weekend. I did like the initial Meridian level that turned out not to be Meridian and the revelation about the Jardaan having created the Angara a long time ago. One thing I appreciate is when sci-fi takes account of the pure vastness of space and time, and here we learn that the Heleus cluster is still being shaped heavily by the conflict between the Jardaan and whoever deployed the Scourge many years ago. I did have to turn on subtitles part of the way through the very last mission - I appreciated the way that all of Ryder's allies from earlier in the game turn up to help, but it was hard to tell who was chiming in over the intercom just by their voices, especially with all the sound and fury of the combat taking place.
BTW, do more NPCs and squadmates die if you skip major sidequests or loyalty missions? The only one who didn't make it in mine was Captain Dunn from the Hyperion.
While the ending was OK and the callback to "we made it" was nice, it seems like quite a bit is still left up in the air here, unless I did something wrong. I still don't know who the Benefactor was or why Garson was killed, nor do we find out why the Jardaan created the Angara or who their enemies were who deployed the Scourge. Meanwhile, Reyes Vidal is still on the loose, the question of whether the Milky Way species were wiped out is unanswered, and the threat from the Kett seems only somewhat diminished - the Archon is dead and presumably with him the goal of capturing Meridian, but the Primus is still around and still intent on exalting other species. Is there something I missed that addressed any of these issues or is all this really just unresolved?
Also, does Lexi's sidequest where she asks you to scan some people on Elaaden to try to figure out why so many AI personnel have started acting like violent sociopaths (something I wondered about myself)? I did all the scans but she never told me of any findings.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on May 22, 2017 14:48:58 GMT
Anyway, while this was an enjoyable game, I don't think I'll ever be as fond of it as I am of the Shepard trilogy, and overall I'm still not sure why this needed to be a Mass Effect game. With the exception of the krogan situation, most of the politics and history of the Milky Way races are basically irrelevant in this context, and I'm not sure that any viewpoints and ideas expressed by characters like Lexi, Peebee, Kallo, and Vetra couldn't have been just as logical coming from human characters. The backstory tie-ins about the Reapers and the Benefactor are more a source of confusion and possible continuity problems than anything else. So why not just make a game about humans going to Andromeda and leave it at that?
Also, it takes about as long as the entire Shepard trilogy combined to finish, and I'm left with a somewhat similar feeling to what I had at the end of DA:I, that there's a really awesome 40-50 hour game somewhere within this 100 hours or so of gameplay. I like open worlds in theory, but when all they add to the equation is a bunch of extra combat scenes and missions about scanning rocks, it gets to the point of just eating up time. At this point, I'd say Bioware really needs to get off the "more and bigger" bandwagon if this is the best they can do with open worlds.
I do plan to give it at least one more playthrough, especially now that I have a better handle on how the story progresses and when I really need to do which quests, but I doubt I'll be coming back to it repeatedly they way I have with the trilogy and other favorite games.
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Post by melbella on May 23, 2017 1:03:56 GMT
Finally finished the main quest this past weekend. I did like the initial Meridian level that turned out not to be Meridian and the revelation about the Jardaan having created the Angara a long time ago. One thing I appreciate is when sci-fi takes account of the pure vastness of space and time, and here we learn that the Heleus cluster is still being shaped heavily by the conflict between the Jardaan and whoever deployed the Scourge many years ago. I did have to turn on subtitles part of the way through the very last mission - I appreciated the way that all of Ryder's allies from earlier in the game turn up to help, but it was hard to tell who was chiming in over the intercom just by their voices, especially with all the sound and fury of the combat taking place. BTW, do more NPCs and squadmates die if you skip major sidequests or loyalty missions? The only one who didn't make it in mine was Captain Dunn from the Hyperion. While the ending was OK and the callback to "we made it" was nice, it seems like quite a bit is still left up in the air here, unless I did something wrong. I still don't know who the Benefactor was or why Garson was killed, nor do we find out why the Jardaan created the Angara or who their enemies were who deployed the Scourge. Meanwhile, Reyes Vidal is still on the loose, the question of whether the Milky Way species were wiped out is unanswered, and the threat from the Kett seems only somewhat diminished - the Archon is dead and presumably with him the goal of capturing Meridian, but the Primus is still around and still intent on exalting other species. Is there something I missed that addressed any of these issues or is all this really just unresolved? Also, does Lexi's sidequest where she asks you to scan some people on Elaaden to try to figure out why so many AI personnel have started acting like violent sociopaths (something I wondered about myself)? I did all the scans but she never told me of any findings.
Congrats on finishing! I like the final mission too, for that same reason: everyone helps!
Nope, you didn't miss anything. All those threads are left open, presumably for DLC and/or a sequel.
If you don't recruit the 3 other pathfinders then Dunn dies. You get the asari one from Cora's loyalty mission and you have to convince the turian, Avitus, to take the job. You get the salarian one during a main mission so that's unmissable.
Re: scanning the scavengers. The first set of scans is to get data for Lexi. After a while she'll tell you she created a serum and asks you to try to administer it to one of them. I've always had the test subject refuse (I don't know if you can force them to take the serum she concocts) but she then uses her data to work up something for the newly defrosted as a preventive measure.
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