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Post by Arcian on Mar 26, 2017 18:11:15 GMT
The answer is probably no but does BW even read these forums? Aaryn Flynn is a member here, so I presume some of them do.
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Post by biscuitsntea on Mar 26, 2017 18:40:57 GMT
Please hire someone JUST for NPC and cc head design. And if you have one dedicated to that... They are not doing a great job. I really don't know what went wrong with the NPC designs. Time constraints? No or little supervision? Laziness? I really don't know, but it's definitely bad and shouldn't happen in a AAA title in 2017 when there were earlier games, even in the franchise, who did it much better and with more care. Sure there were some wonky faces, or reused faces in the OT, but it wasn't as glaring as it is with MEA. And like I said, in a game that focuses so heavily on dialogue and characters something like that should not be overlooked. I guess at this point the only saving grace will be if the modders take interest and figure out how to mod the texture. It won't help the asari at this point, but maybe the Turians can still be saved. Yeah, I doubt modders would be able to change the models. Frostbite is hard enough as it is, and I don't think they ever really managed to mod models in DAI either. Also, even if they could, console players would still get screwed over. All I can hope for is a patch that maybe addresses these problems, but my expectations in that regard are very, very low. Its immersion destroying. Not for some people, but definitely for me. I don't mind the occassional clones or duplicates in games. Like in Horizon Zero Dawn, you'll definitely run across some doubles, but they took so much care to make sure the NPCs look interesting, good and fairly diverse that it's not much of an issue. And in MEA we get scenes like this:
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Post by biscuitsntea on Mar 26, 2017 19:01:18 GMT
Agree with everything. +Let me add female and male salarians being practically the same. +Without giving specific spoilers,I met a female Turian somewher (female name and voice) but the model was male :S Don't forget the salarians. Most look just like Jarun Tann. Thank you very much for pointing that out, it's completely true and I've added comparison pictures for salarians as well!
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Post by panzerwzh on Mar 26, 2017 19:12:59 GMT
Lol, 5 years development time + 40 Million budget. This is ludicrous.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 26, 2017 19:15:49 GMT
I just looked at that Asari clone thread. I agree to an extent that they should have designed some more variety to NPC, but I don't mind if they are just using clones for simple scenes....but there should definitely be some variety for NPC as was seen in previous entries.
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Post by malanek on Mar 26, 2017 19:16:37 GMT
It's only really the Turian faces I was disappointed with.
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Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 26, 2017 19:23:58 GMT
Agree with everything. +Let me add female and male salarians being practically the same. +Without giving specific spoilers,I met a female Turian somewher (female name and voice) but the model was male :S Don't forget the salarians. Most look just like Jarun Tann. Thank you very much for pointing that out, it's completely true and I've added comparison pictures for salarians as well! Well, the male-female issue isn't necessarily a problem. The Dalatrass didn't seem too different from any male salarian in ME3 to my memory. Not all species have to have significant sexual dimorphism.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 19:46:50 GMT
Agree with everything. +Let me add female and male salarians being practically the same. +Without giving specific spoilers,I met a female Turian somewher (female name and voice) but the model was male :S Don't forget the salarians. Most look just like Jarun Tann. Thank you very much for pointing that out, it's completely true and I've added comparison pictures for salarians as well! lol I tried to talk to Tann's female assistant that mans the desk in the Pathfinder HQ entrance, thinking it was him. Then I realized, they look just alike, as well. Haha, sometimes, it makes me think of Oblivion, as they used the same faces for several NPCs
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 26, 2017 19:54:41 GMT
Krogan too, Kesh's face is....off? Kesh isn't really the best example, because her appearance can easily be regarded as a matter of sexual dimorphism among krogan. Until Kesh, we have never seen the full face of a krogan female. Anyway, this actually is one of the more troublesome issues I have with the game. Turians are easily the worst offenders because they literally don't need any unique face modeling amongst themselves, only different markings, colors and textures.
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Post by jnericsonx on Mar 26, 2017 20:26:07 GMT
I more meant the coloring and texture/detail of Kesh's face seems bleh compared to even half the view of Eve's face in ME3.
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Post by argentus on Mar 26, 2017 20:26:42 GMT
Agree with everything. +Let me add female and male salarians being practically the same. +Without giving specific spoilers,I met a female Turian somewher (female name and voice) but the model was male :S Don't forget the salarians. Most look just like Jarun Tann. Thank you very much for pointing that out, it's completely true and I've added comparison pictures for salarians as well! that's been a problem since ME 2 though. After Mordin became popular, suddenly all the Salarians look like Mordin with the creepy human lips and annoying orange face, as opposed to ME1 salarians which were more amphibian looking.
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Post by DoctorFox on Mar 26, 2017 20:34:23 GMT
I see what you mean, OP. And yeah it is glaringly obvious in-game. There needs to be a major overhaul with the hair and face texturing.
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Post by Nayawk on Mar 26, 2017 20:43:53 GMT
I think a lot of the problems with the turians is the lighting. The ones I encounter out in the worlds are still fairly pale/single colour but nowhere near as bad as the ones I see on the Nexus. Nexus lighting makes everyone look flat and weird.
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Post by cooldude on Mar 26, 2017 21:11:23 GMT
The Bioware studio that made the originals should of made Andromeda. I agree....I think that team is working on their new IP. Looking back at the Frostbite engine, they probably should have stuck with the unreal engine and just refined it, but I guess they spent so much money on Frostbite, there was no way they was going to abandon it, and if it isn't the engine then it goes back to the talent of the artists which seems to be lacking in terms of animation, texture art design. The overall game looks great, but it looks like there has been some downgrades when it came to character design. And see, that right there makes me think that Bioware is ready to retire the Mass Effect series and turn it into a milker. Why would they make the team that built the Mass Effect universe work on a new IP, instead of the other way around? We are talking about a team that made Mass Effect a top selling franchise. Handing it off to a studio that is obviously full of inexperienced developers shows a lack of shits given. Bioware Montreal should of been given the new IP, so that they could build a universe that belonged to the people in that studio.
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Post by Eterna on Mar 26, 2017 21:40:36 GMT
I agree....I think that team is working on their new IP. Looking back at the Frostbite engine, they probably should have stuck with the unreal engine and just refined it, but I guess they spent so much money on Frostbite, there was no way they was going to abandon it, and if it isn't the engine then it goes back to the talent of the artists which seems to be lacking in terms of animation, texture art design. The overall game looks great, but it looks like there has been some downgrades when it came to character design. And see, that right there makes me think that Bioware is ready to retire the Mass Effect series and turn it into a milker. Why would they make the team that built the Mass Effect universe work on a new IP, instead of the other way around? We are talking about a team that made Mass Effect a top selling franchise. Handing it off to a studio that is obviously full of inexperienced developers shows a lack of shits given. Bioware Montreal should of been given the new IP, so that they could build a universe that belonged to the people in that studio. That is some powerful confirmation bias.
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Post by commandercryptarch on Mar 26, 2017 22:11:05 GMT
Whyyyy Bioware,why was it sooo hard?
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Post by commandercryptarch on Mar 26, 2017 22:18:59 GMT
Thank you very much for pointing that out, it's completely true and I've added comparison pictures for salarians as well! Well, the male-female issue isn't necessarily a problem. The Dalatrass didn't seem too different from any male salarian in ME3 to my memory. Not all species have to have significant sexual dimorphism. True , but I was at least hoping for different attire.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 26, 2017 22:50:26 GMT
Well, the male-female issue isn't necessarily a problem. The Dalatrass didn't seem too different from any male salarian in ME3 to my memory. Not all species have to have significant sexual dimorphism. True , but I was at least hoping for different attire. There again, the dalatrass was wearing a palate swapped version of the salarian councilor.
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Post by jaqueline on Mar 27, 2017 5:42:23 GMT
and yet no one has mentioned the fact that every species has the same height and build, every single one...
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Post by nickles on Mar 27, 2017 6:20:56 GMT
It was sooo jarring walking onto the Asari Ark and seeing two chicks arguing who had the same face.
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Post by sky on Mar 27, 2017 6:36:24 GMT
They definitely put a lot more effort into the npcs in the trilogy, and used various ways to set them apart, such as facial markings and different voices.
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 27, 2017 6:43:39 GMT
Please hire someone JUST for NPC and cc head design. And if you have one dedicated to that... They are not doing a great job. I really don't know what went wrong with the NPC designs. Time constraints? No or little supervision? Laziness? I really don't know, but it's definitely bad and shouldn't happen in a AAA title in 2017 when there were earlier games, even in the franchise, who did it much better and with more care. Sure there were some wonky faces, or reused faces in the OT, but it wasn't as glaring as it is with MEA. And like I said, in a game that focuses so heavily on dialogue and characters something like that should not be overlooked. Using my somewhat limited but also kinda informed knowledge of game development, this kind of stuff in terms of polishing up for the final product is generally one of the last few things done. Make sure everything works good, and then go add the touches. Like, make sure you got the batter of the cake good and spelled the name right with icing, then add the rest of the doo-dads to make it pretty. Mix in the rumour/report that they kinda/sorta threw away a year of dev time (in some capacity of programmers and support staff, and honestly if they found as frustrating as that article made it sound then it was probably A LOT of peoples time spent on it) trying to make procedurally generated planets, and its pretty obvious they ran out of time before finishing touches.
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Post by roseofquartz on Mar 27, 2017 6:48:19 GMT
Just adding onto this. I miss the colony markings from the original trilogy. Almost none of the turians we've seen had any, and it feels like a huge part of their culture that's been conveniently swept under the rug.
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 27, 2017 6:49:02 GMT
I more meant the coloring and texture/detail of Kesh's face seems bleh compared to even half the view of Eve's face in ME3. Its the paint on Kesh that just confuses the shit out of me.
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Post by biscuitsntea on Mar 27, 2017 10:51:40 GMT
Using my somewhat limited but also kinda informed knowledge of game development, this kind of stuff in terms of polishing up for the final product is generally one of the last few things done. Make sure everything works good, and then go add the touches. Like, make sure you got the batter of the cake good and spelled the name right with icing, then add the rest of the doo-dads to make it pretty. Mix in the rumour/report that they kinda/sorta threw away a year of dev time (in some capacity of programmers and support staff, and honestly if they found as frustrating as that article made it sound then it was probably A LOT of peoples time spent on it) trying to make procedurally generated planets, and its pretty obvious they ran out of time before finishing touches. Yeah, it really looks like that's what happened. The development seemed to be pretty messy from what I've read, so issues like this aren't all that surprising. I still hope that Bioware will fix the facial animations, since there has been such a big backlash, and maybe through that the issue with the "dead" eyes will be fixed as well. It's just too bad that they probably won't go over the issues that I have addressed in my first post regarding NPCs.
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