Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,515 Likes: 2,604
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griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 27, 2017 22:11:20 GMT
Frostbite isn't the issue. It's the learning curve and understanding its limits. Back in the day, Bioware made their own engines. The familiarity of the engines was evident.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 27, 2017 22:49:11 GMT
I am being half-serious and half-Miyazaki. Unnatural plastic looking ugly people. Glitchiest and weirdest animations. Over-animated. Emotionless.Unless the pipeline for character modeling (or however this works) is a bitch I don't think this is Frostbite's fault. BioWare had to develop their own tech for faces in ME1 and they had to do the same for Inquisition and MEA. They only failed because they're not as good a developer as they were 7 years ago.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 27, 2017 23:08:01 GMT
I hate this engine. Geared for FPS thus not flexible, runs poorly on some systems, not moddable (DICE proud of it), I don't remember a single game that didn't come out bugged as hell. EA forces this engine down the throat of every developer under them. What engine I've wanted ME:A to run under? UE4. Better looking (just look at the complete new Unreal Tournament maps or the new Tekken game, not to mention the Paris Flat (?) tech demo), runs better, and you can do ANYTHING on it. What makes you think it's geared towards fps games? Just cuz most use it? There are plenty of non god out there that use it and do launch much less big heavy. I also don't understand why EA is to blame for "forcing" it onto people when bioware openly admitted (and I absolutely can link if you need to see it, just know it was someone in bioware who used a blog to talk about it and they mentioned taking a look at third party engines, upgrading their own, or taking a look at frostbite)to choosing it due to being able to open up more possibilities in their games. The issue isn't the engine but the people using it. Frostbite is one of if not the best engine to use right now. Considering Andromedas issues can literally occur regardless of the engine, it seems pointless to blame frostbite 3.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Bottom
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Mar 27, 2017 23:28:40 GMT
Plenty of games have been built, from the ground up, on Frostbite 2.0, and work just fine. I play 2 of them regularly - Battlefield 1, a multiplayer shooter, and FIFA 17, a sports game. 2 very diverse games, that play just fine on that engine. These issues are specific to Bioware and no one else. People need to stop blaming: *Snip* Yes. Too Much FLAK
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dreth
N2
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Post by dreth on Mar 28, 2017 0:26:36 GMT
I am being half-serious and half-Miyazaki. Unnatural plastic looking ugly people. Glitchiest and weirdest animations. Over-animated. Emotionless. None of these issues are the engines fault.
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Post by kino on Mar 28, 2017 0:35:14 GMT
Frostbite is fine, I think. Developer learning curve, utilization and optimization of said engine is something else.
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Post by Wintermist on Mar 28, 2017 0:57:07 GMT
It's a really powerful engine and it shows in this game too. What has not been done is let the game become more polished, that is evident in the quality of some animations and some other issues. Given time, and effort, they'll sort it out.
What I feel they need to work on most is: Tweak hair to look more natural. Minor graphical adjustments to eyes. Eye animations. Work on the character creator more, so one can actually make more normal looking characters.
Tweaks, really.
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neightrix
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by neightrix on Mar 28, 2017 1:38:27 GMT
Faces in Battlefield Hardline and Battlefield 1 look incredible. It's not the engine itself.
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helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
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Post by helios969 on Mar 28, 2017 2:55:58 GMT
I think it looks and runs great. Running at 2.5k with graphics maxed out. Zero lag. Combat is superb...though the animals are bullet sponges. Insanity is fun...and more challenging than ME3. Some minor loading texture issues on Voeld while racing around in the Nomad, but otherwise not really noticeable. The only real issue I have seen is Peebee's freaky eyes...way too big. Not sure who approved that or what they were thinking. I hope they fix those. I like the K+M...works well for me. I think they have a good foundation to build on. Fix peoples bugs, flesh out with more story content and introduce more enemy variants. Eventually add more locations. And for the love of God Bioware implement a planet-to-planet fast travel system.
I've got 100 hours in, you don't do that if the game sucks or is a technical nightmare.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 28, 2017 4:45:38 GMT
If it isn't the engine then it is the talent of the staff. No way past games should superior to this game in terms of character models and animation. EA/Bioware should have let the team that worked on the past games work on Andromeda and i would go a step further and say they should have used the UR engine since they was already familiar with it.
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Post by bakgrind on Mar 28, 2017 5:15:00 GMT
I am being half-serious and half-Miyazaki. *EDIT* Unnatural plastic looking ugly people. Glitchiest and weirdest animations. Over-animated. Emotionless. The one thing that Bioware has been bad at over the years is their character customization or should I say the lack of it . It is really hard to make a acceptable custom character better than or equal to the default one not only in this game but in DAI as well . I'll include SWTOR even though it does not use the Frostbite 3 engine. Their hair styles, color and tint options are pretty sad as well. They really need to go in a different direction with their art design . Another game that uses the same engine is Battle Field 1 and while the game play has a good look and feel the characters seem to look a lot better even though they lack a lot of facial expressions. And interestingly enough you could make really acceptable characters in DAO and DA II. So ya, I think it's in their art direction I am not really picking on MEA since I think it is really a fine game. I just think they need to do more work in their art.
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Post by anacronian on Mar 28, 2017 5:21:36 GMT
Frostbite engine is used for Battlefield 1 and Star Wars battlefront and while I think these are both shit games I will admit that they both look absolutely beautiful, The problem is definitely not the engine.
As to why MEA is on Frostbite, the answer is simple, Frostbite is an engine wholly owned by EA and EA is committed to putting as many games as possible on their own engine, Which is no problem since it is a fine engine.
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
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Post by House Targaryen on Mar 28, 2017 16:36:05 GMT
I like the engine for the most part with one major exception is its not mod friendly. I'm a big fan of mods, because it gives the game replayability. Mods is one of those things that have kept Bioware games like Baldur's Gate and NWN from fading into obscurity.
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Post by XCPTNL on Mar 28, 2017 16:53:03 GMT
The engine is not the problem, it's the people using it. Blaming the engine is like blaming the ball if you suck at <insert ball-game of your choice here> or blaming the weather or anything basically. Fact is: plenty of games have been built on this engine and they work just fine. Another fact is: every Mass Effect game had quite some technical problems and those were built on other engines. Just from a technical point of view (so not even including other aspects like a decent SP, proper balancing and all that) the game should have been tested and fixed for at least another 3-6 months.
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Post by fizzypop on Mar 28, 2017 20:55:22 GMT
The engine doesn't work for rpgs. It wasn't made for them in mind. No one is going to convince me otherwise on that. Bioware isn't great at developing the best facial animations, graphics, or cc and that's true. It just isn't their strong suit, but even if they were frostbite would still be the wrong engine to pick for a largely rpg game.
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Post by fizzypop on Mar 28, 2017 20:58:50 GMT
I hate this engine. Geared for FPS thus not flexible, runs poorly on some systems, not moddable (DICE proud of it), I don't remember a single game that didn't come out bugged as hell. EA forces this engine down the throat of every developer under them. What engine I've wanted ME:A to run under? UE4. Better looking (just look at the complete new Unreal Tournament maps or the new Tekken game, not to mention the Paris Flat (?) tech demo), runs better, and you can do ANYTHING on it. What makes you think it's geared towards fps games? Just cuz most use it? There are plenty of non god out there that use it and do launch much less big heavy. I also don't understand why EA is to blame for "forcing" it onto people when bioware openly admitted (and I absolutely can link if you need to see it, just know it was someone in bioware who used a blog to talk about it and they mentioned taking a look at third party engines, upgrading their own, or taking a look at frostbite)to choosing it due to being able to open up more possibilities in their games. The issue isn't the engine but the people using it. Frostbite is one of if not the best engine to use right now. Considering Andromedas issues can literally occur regardless of the engine, it seems pointless to blame frostbite 3. Um this is actually pretty self-evident all you have to do is actually look at a list of games that use it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Frostbite_games Do you notice a trend there? It is an engine built for FPS and yes some other games use it, but they aren't rpgs. In fact, the only rpgs listed are the ones bioware has made DAI, MEA, and Shadow Realms (which was cancelled). This isn't an opinion, this is just fact. It is an engine that does well with racing, sports, and FPS games. It isn't used by largely rpg games and very few action.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 28, 2017 21:04:50 GMT
What makes you think it's geared towards fps games? Just cuz most use it? There are plenty of non god out there that use it and do launch much less big heavy. I also don't understand why EA is to blame for "forcing" it onto people when bioware openly admitted (and I absolutely can link if you need to see it, just know it was someone in bioware who used a blog to talk about it and they mentioned taking a look at third party engines, upgrading their own, or taking a look at frostbite)to choosing it due to being able to open up more possibilities in their games. The issue isn't the engine but the people using it. Frostbite is one of if not the best engine to use right now. Considering Andromedas issues can literally occur regardless of the engine, it seems pointless to blame frostbite 3. Um this is actually pretty self-evident all you have to do is actually look at a list of games that use it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Frostbite_games Do you notice a trend there? It is an engine built for FPS and yes some other games use it, but they aren't rpgs. In fact, the only rpgs listed are the ones bioware has made DAI, MEA, and Shadow Realms (which was cancelled). This isn't an opinion, this is just fact. It is an engine that does well with racing, sports, and FPS games. It isn't used by largely rpg games and very few action. Oh I've already looked at what games use them, I also know why bioware chose to use it which is the only reason needed. Considering their games using the frostbite haven't necessarily been viewed as awful games I don't see how you could blame frostbite. I didn't see people bring it up with inquisition, why are we starting now? In fact I heard plenty having high expectations on seeing what mass effect would look like with it. Engines don't restrict games by genres, they're merely a style in a sense on what you're wanting to do with a game. If you view the frostbite not fit for RPGs care to give actual reasons besides just noting how there aren't other RPGs? That isn't a technical excuse.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Mar 28, 2017 21:09:41 GMT
How about the engine used in Borderlands 2, so everything can be cartoony eliminating peoples issue with facial animation.(Btw, saying this as a person who isn't bothered by it.)
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Mar 28, 2017 21:24:48 GMT
Well, BFBC2 had a few glitches, BF3 was a glitchfest at launch, BF4 was the Woodstock of Glitches (yes, more than MEA), BF1 have a lot of glitches (with ragdolls and the planes), All of them using the same or older versions of the Frostbite engine. Btw, Here is a more powerful engine Hu3
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Ajax
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Post by Ajax on Mar 28, 2017 21:49:44 GMT
The engine is amazing. Runs well, everything looks really nice... except Human and Asari faces, lol. Landscapes and armor/weapon textures are dope AF. Exactly. Now people dump on the engine too? The only thing that's absolutely flawless about this game? Basically I keep playing the single player just for the drop dead gorgeous landscapes. Ugly characters are not to be blamed on the engine. Don't hate the crayons for bad picture, hate the dude that created them.
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DoctorFox
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by DoctorFox on Mar 28, 2017 21:55:40 GMT
Unreal 4 engine would have been a better choice imo. Bioware clearly doesn't have a good enough grasp of how the tools in the Frostbite engine are to be used. If they went with Unreal 4 engine it'd be relatively the same as Unreal 3 engine with several improvements. They'd have been more familiar with it. It'd be like going from Windows 7 to Windows 10. Instead of going from Windows 7 to Mac OS.
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Hoge
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
XBL Gamertag: ehoge
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Post by Hoge on Mar 28, 2017 21:57:38 GMT
I'm thinking/hoping that now that they have experience working with Frostbite that the next game will be MUCH more improved. I mean, I think the game is beautiful. The character models and faces are just terrible. And hopefully no more freaking Asari clones! But I'll be optimistic for the next game. A part of me feels like they can still step in the right direction from here.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 28, 2017 21:58:43 GMT
Genuine question - would anyone be complaining about the engine if the facial animations were fine?
Because that seems to be the main issue graphically with the game right now.
The worlds / vaults / structures / draw distances / etc all look absolutely outstanding.
I hated Voeld, but still found myself on a few occasions, especially after the critical mission completion, just staring out once or twice at just how great it looked.
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Post by Wintermist on Mar 28, 2017 21:59:14 GMT
How little people understand about the technology yet how strong their beliefs are...
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Post by psychomunkay on Mar 28, 2017 21:59:34 GMT
I mean, what does a company that has made some of the most successful titles in gaming know that the forums don't? Nothing, that's what. Now get back in the code-kitchen and bake us a better game you talentless hacks.
/sarcasm
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