Raga
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Post by Raga on Mar 28, 2017 14:56:46 GMT
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Mar 28, 2017 15:53:26 GMT
I interpret it as Mac Walters really, REALLY wanting Synthesis to be canon.
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sdzald
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Post by sdzald on Mar 28, 2017 22:34:07 GMT
I interpret it as Mac Walters really, REALLY wanting Synthesis to be canon. DING DING DING we have a winner!!!!! Yep they easily could of written the story with SAM as a VI with a fancy I/F. Instead Mr Walters still miffed about the HUGE outcry to his ending in ME3 said "I will show you clowns I will force it down your throats and not give you a choice." Awful writing. I am actually somewhat enjoying this game, but man the story line and character interaction are really bad bad. Thank you Mr Walters and as long as you are led on ME I will NOT be buying another ME game.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 22:45:58 GMT
We are seeing the birth of the Cybran nation.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 28, 2017 23:37:58 GMT
Personally, if I could get a computer to manage my inefficient biology. I'm all for it. Lengthen my telomeres and such.
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TormDK
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Post by TormDK on Mar 29, 2017 0:02:39 GMT
The singularity will happen way way before 2886 though.
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Post by jastall on Mar 29, 2017 0:47:47 GMT
SAM sounds more like what the Geth did to help the Quarians adapt to Rannoch quickly, using the benefits of an AI to help an organic achieve something they can't do themselves. Alec clearly wanted to give humanity as it was an advantage by using artificial intelligence in a new way, not to create some new being.
Synthesis was an attempt to shatter the lines between organics and synthetics (somehow). SAM doesn't even try to do this at all, Ryder is still clearly human, is clearly still in control, and doesn't wish to make out with their toaster.
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Post by ravenous on Mar 29, 2017 0:54:18 GMT
I do not have a problem with this and don't see it as preachy at all and all I see is that bioware is just making the Synthesis ending of ME3 canon
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 29, 2017 1:01:19 GMT
I interpret it as Mac Walters really, REALLY wanting Synthesis to be canon. I doubt it since Ryder wouldn't be Special then.
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Post by sdzald on Mar 29, 2017 1:10:19 GMT
SAM sounds more like what the Geth did to help the Quarians adapt to Rannoch quickly, using the benefits of an AI to help an organic achieve something they can't do themselves. Alec clearly wanted to give humanity as it was an advantage by using artificial intelligence in a new way, not to create some new being. Synthesis was an attempt to shatter the lines between organics and synthetics (somehow). SAM doesn't even try to do this at all, Ryder is still clearly human, is clearly still in control, and doesn't wish to make out with their toaster. Is he really? What if Ryder does something SAM really hates? What if Ryder is just thinking certain things because SAM is putting those thoughts into his head? I don't care how helpful it would be, having a handy I/F would be fine but having direct control over all my brain functions is something entirely different. I am not so sure how anyone in the ME world, could look at AI's, Geth, Sovereign, the Reapers, desire to off ALL biological life forms, and not be very concerned about having one IN my brain. As far as I am concerned Alec was dead wrong and is no better than the Illusive Man who considered the ends justifying the means.
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 29, 2017 1:14:45 GMT
I think SAM is, for all intents and purposes, becoming Ryder.
He's, after all, experiencing organic life as Ryder Senior and Junior.
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Post by ravenous on Mar 29, 2017 1:20:50 GMT
SAM sounds more like what the Geth did to help the Quarians adapt to Rannoch quickly, using the benefits of an AI to help an organic achieve something they can't do themselves. Alec clearly wanted to give humanity as it was an advantage by using artificial intelligence in a new way, not to create some new being. Synthesis was an attempt to shatter the lines between organics and synthetics (somehow). SAM doesn't even try to do this at all, Ryder is still clearly human, is clearly still in control, and doesn't wish to make out with their toaster. Is he really? What if Ryder does something SAM really hates? What if Ryder is just thinking certain things because SAM is putting those thoughts into his head? I don't care how helpful it would be, having a handy I/F would be fine but having direct control over all my brain functions is something entirely different. I am not so sure how anyone in the ME world, could look at AI's, Geth, Sovereign, the Reapers, desire to off ALL biological life forms, and not be very concerned about having one IN my brain. As far as I am concerned Alec was dead wrong and is no better than the Illusive Man who considered the ends justifying the means. the way I understood it is that SAM is so completely merged with Ryder that it is permenant and that if you were to try to remove SAM from ryder it would kill Ryder because SAM and Ryder are one being now a new being - a Synthesis is how I see Ryder now, which would make the Synthesis ending in ME3 canon now - well in my opinion of course
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Post by jastall on Mar 29, 2017 1:51:49 GMT
SAM sounds more like what the Geth did to help the Quarians adapt to Rannoch quickly, using the benefits of an AI to help an organic achieve something they can't do themselves. Alec clearly wanted to give humanity as it was an advantage by using artificial intelligence in a new way, not to create some new being. Synthesis was an attempt to shatter the lines between organics and synthetics (somehow). SAM doesn't even try to do this at all, Ryder is still clearly human, is clearly still in control, and doesn't wish to make out with their toaster. Is he really? What if Ryder does something SAM really hates? What if Ryder is just thinking certain things because SAM is putting those thoughts into his head? I don't care how helpful it would be, having a handy I/F would be fine but having direct control over all my brain functions is something entirely different. I am not so sure how anyone in the ME world, could look at AI's, Geth, Sovereign, the Reapers, desire to off ALL biological life forms, and not be very concerned about having one IN my brain. As far as I am concerned Alec was dead wrong and is no better than the Illusive Man who considered the ends justifying the means. There's literally no change in Ryder's personality over the course of the game (unless of course you enforce it as the player, which would make cool headcanon I suppose). Far as we know, SAM doesn't have access to these parts of Ryder and cannot control their motor functions as well. There's also a doctor and apparently qualified psychologist on board, which would probably be adept at noticing the erratic behavior that would ensue if Ryder was influenced by an AI whose understanding of the human mind seems far more rudimentary than EDI's. SAM's integrity is also tied to Ryder's, as Alec explains. So there's little incentive on him attempting to destroy his creator/host. I think daddy Ryder thought his plan relatively through. I mean, you say that about SAM, yet we see more instances of organics influencing/taking over other organics in Andromeda (the Kett, those ex-Cerberus scientists on Kadara) than we see of SAM even attempting to do so.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 29, 2017 1:51:59 GMT
I interpret it as Mac Walters really, REALLY wanting Synthesis to be canon. I doubt it since Ryder wouldn't be Special then. Why not? Synthetics are already part of you. Can you imagine your life without them?
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 29, 2017 4:10:01 GMT
Wait, so a game five years in the making is based on something Elon Musk just now announced? Are the people are BioWare prophets? Time travelers? Seriously, I'm not sure how this makes sense. OTOH, I'm reading the middle of a trilogy of books the covers AI being a threat to organic life. The first book in the series came out in 2009. Maybe it was inspired by ME1 (though I'm not sure the anti-AI stuff was quite as hammered home at that point). Then there's Battlestar Galactica from 2004. Covers some related themes. The reality is that science is moving in this direction and science fiction is going to mirror it.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 29, 2017 4:12:15 GMT
I interpret it as Mac Walters really, REALLY wanting Synthesis to be canon. DING DING DING we have a winner!!!!! Yep they easily could of written the story with SAM as a VI with a fancy I/F. Instead Mr Walters still miffed about the HUGE outcry to his ending in ME3 said "I will show you clowns I will force it down your throats and not give you a choice." Awful writing. I am actually somewhat enjoying this game, but man the story line and character interaction are really bad bad. Thank you Mr Walters and as long as you are led on ME I will NOT be buying another ME game. Or maybe Mac Walters is just taking a look at science news reports and extrapolating from it. The connection between Ryder and SAM is not the same as Synthesis. I say this as someone who is a Destroy guy all the way.
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Raga
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Post by Raga on Mar 29, 2017 11:26:54 GMT
Wait, so a game five years in the making is based on something Elon Musk just now announced? Are the people are BioWare prophets? Time travelers? Seriously, I'm not sure how this makes sense. OTOH, I'm reading the middle of a trilogy of books the covers AI being a threat to organic life. The first book in the series came out in 2009. Maybe it was inspired by ME1 (though I'm not sure the anti-AI stuff was quite as hammered home at that point). Then there's Battlestar Galactica from 2004. Covers some related themes. The reality is that science is moving in this direction and science fiction is going to mirror it. Elon Musk is just an example of what I'm talking about. My point is more that I'm tired of esoteric techno oracles in general. These guys are like the tech equivalent of Nostradamus. It's really fun to have a story playing with the prophecies of Nostradamus, but when it seems like the writers start taking it seriously....it's just .
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Post by Raga on Mar 29, 2017 11:27:35 GMT
The singularity will happen way way before 2886 though. The singularity is a thought experiment. There is exactly 0 way to know if this is going to happen. We have absolutely no idea what an AI would do, because we have 0 AI to base predictions off of.
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TormDK
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Post by TormDK on Mar 29, 2017 11:29:27 GMT
The singularity will happen way way before 2886 though. The singularity is a thought experiment. There is exactly 0 way to know if this is going to happen. Sure, just like any tech in the future is.
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Raga
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Post by Raga on Mar 29, 2017 11:36:45 GMT
The singularity is a thought experiment. There is exactly 0 way to know if this is going to happen. Sure, just like any tech in the future is. That's my point. It's the point when the game starts feeling like "no, really, this is REALLY going to happen" that it starts getting what I termed preachy and irritating.
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Post by TormDK on Mar 29, 2017 11:55:35 GMT
Sure, just like any tech in the future is. That's my point. It's the point when the game starts feeling like "no, really, this is REALLY going to happen" that it starts getting what I termed preachy and irritating. Thats the whole point of sci-fi though right? And besides, it will happen - the question is not if, but when - and what we will do about it regulation wise. Just like self-driving cars to take a modern day example. The tech is about ready to go large scale, but our leaders are not doing the changes needed to accommodate what will be a revolution in the transportation industry in the coming years.
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Post by Raga on Mar 29, 2017 12:03:50 GMT
That's my point. It's the point when the game starts feeling like "no, really, this is REALLY going to happen" that it starts getting what I termed preachy and irritating. Thats the whole point of sci-fi though right? And besides, it will happen - the question is not if, but when - and what we will do about it regulation wise. Just like self-driving cars to take a modern day example. The tech is about ready to go large scale, but our leaders are not doing the changes needed to accommodate what will be a revolution in the transportation industry in the coming years. "It will happen" - based on what? Siri? Self driving cars is a whole other thing because we already have actual self-driving cars. Science-fiction is for speculation. I have no issue with speculation and thought experiments. They are fun, which is why I read sci-fi books and play sci-fi games. It's the treating thought experiments as given because it sounds cool that I roll my eyes at. Anyway, don't really want to go in circles on this particular line. More just interested in seeing if I was the only one this irritated.
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TormDK
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Post by TormDK on Mar 29, 2017 12:12:45 GMT
Thats the whole point of sci-fi though right? And besides, it will happen - the question is not if, but when - and what we will do about it regulation wise. Just like self-driving cars to take a modern day example. The tech is about ready to go large scale, but our leaders are not doing the changes needed to accommodate what will be a revolution in the transportation industry in the coming years. "It will happen" - based on what? Siri? Self driving cars is a whole other thing because we already have actual self-driving cars. Science-fiction is for speculation. I have no issue with speculation and thought experiments. They are fun, which is why I read sci-fi books and play sci-fi games. It's the treating thought experiments as given because it sounds cool that I roll my eyes at. We have the beginings of AI available today, so I fail to see why this is a large stretch. There is alot of money and brainpower going into the whole idea of implants in humans as it is, so I would be extremely careful with saying what can, and cannot be done. Think of how much has changed from the early 2000's till now from a technology perspective, then take that same amount of years, and project it into the future. We're in for an exciting ride. Imagine if you could go back to the early 1900's and tell them that in a hundred years, all the worlds information would be at their fingertips in devices they could fit in their coat pocket, but that we would use it to view funny pictures of animals. Lots will change, human-machine interfacing will be just one of them.
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Post by Raga on Mar 29, 2017 12:15:45 GMT
I'm not arguing that more complex machines won't happen. I'm arguing that we have 0 way of knowing that "the singularity will happen and the only way to avoid it is to merge an AI into your brain/body," which is the particular prophecy that's being sold here.
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Post by Ahriman on Mar 29, 2017 12:36:20 GMT
SAM sounds more like what the Geth did to help the Quarians adapt to Rannoch quickly, using the benefits of an AI to help an organic achieve something they can't do themselves. Alec clearly wanted to give humanity as it was an advantage by using artificial intelligence in a new way, not to create some new being. Synthesis was an attempt to shatter the lines between organics and synthetics (somehow). SAM doesn't even try to do this at all, Ryder is still clearly human, is clearly still in control, and doesn't wish to make out with their toaster. SAM's premise is far enough from synthesis, one needs to have psychological trauma from endings of same magnitude as Walters himself to see otherwise. However in hacker quest I do sense these unapologetic vibes when SAM starts to mumble some nonsense on why it would never betray Ryder.
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