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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 29, 2017 19:21:47 GMT
That is kind of what happens when you have like 2 percent of the people left over from the original trilogy writing and creating this game. That's why you fill in good writers who left with good writers to replace them. People leaving shouldn't be an excuse when there's plenty of other people in the market that could do just as good if not better. It's a matter of bioware actively trying to act on it. for the record lead designer openings have opened up for Montreal (the guys that made the game). Haven't seen anything on lead narrative however.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 29, 2017 19:40:55 GMT
The asari thing, while I do agree that it was a nice and unique feature of the species to always call them "she" doesn't really bother me that much though. They are mono-gendered and while they may look female to us, that concept wouldn't quite exist for them in the same way. However, they would have picked it up eventually (either from studying a Thessia native species that has genders or at the very least when making first contact with the salarians. Now, that they have to describe themselves to other people in terms that relates to their biology, why would every single Asari identify as female? It actually makes sense to me that some of them would rather see them themselves as closer to males if they had to choose within that framework. The main problem I see there is more of a narrative issue where - like mordrek said - they are anthropomorphising the alien races too much, thus taking away from their uniqueness in the universe, that's a shame and was unnecessary. By the way, here is another good one: So the Geth cobbled together 3 Mass Relays and created an FTL telescope that can observe Andromeda? a) Even within the fictional Mass effect lore, that makes no sense whatsoever. The light would still need to reach the relays in the milky way before hitting that FTL telescope and it's magic thingy. Or can they generate a mass free super FTL corridor all the way to Andromeda with those relays now without a receiver relay (then why not send the ships through) suddenly having an FTL sensor, even if it's just that one single telescope would have been another amazing advantage for anyone who controls it! But still, the greates news Shepard heard on the Citadel in 2185 was that someone built a radiotelescope when this happened at the same time?!? Also, given the turian's strategies against the reapers during the war, an FTL telescope could have been a deciding factor of many battles, if not the war. But nooo, all we need to do is to say some BS about three relays or other words the fans have heard before and everything will be fine. Oh and I always have to chuckle when I have to spend a super expensive augmentation in order to downgrade my weapon to "vintage" tech, so that my weapon can be massively more powerful then it was when using the new state-of-the-art thermal clips. Great progress dear Citadel races. I am sure you really wanted to depend on finite ammunition for your weapons when going to a new galaxy without backup or supply lines. Guess you got lucky that we just find ammo crates on completely alien worlds, right? But here is an actually serious question: While on the Nexus, there is a news broadcast that goes something like this: "A worker died while working on the outside of the Nexus. The name is withheld until next of kin in the Milky Way are notified." I am honestly not sure, is that a joke? What's going on there? Do we actually have communications with the MW? If so, why haven't I heard? If not, why not? What happened to QECs? I mean sure, maybe QECs cannot last for 600 years (though apparently the one that connects SAM to Alec Ryder did, I guess)? Maybe they need to be re-calibrated or something (where is Garrus when you need him). Whatever but that news soundbite is weird for sure.
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Post by anacronian on Mar 29, 2017 19:59:35 GMT
Female Salarian dockworker flies against everything we know about the Salarians.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 29, 2017 20:04:32 GMT
Female Salarian dockworker flies against everything we know about the Salarians. Is it confirmed she is female? I only saw her once so far and I figured they just used a female VA, either because of an oversight or because they wanted to give "him" a very high register voice. If this is really supposed to be a female salarian though, then that writer had no idea about the species whatsoever.
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Post by Transcendent on Mar 29, 2017 20:13:51 GMT
That is kind of what happens when you have like 2 percent of the people left over from the original trilogy writing and creating this game. That's why you fill in good writers who left with good writers to replace them. People leaving shouldn't be an excuse when there's plenty of other people in the market that could do just as good if not better. It's a matter of bioware actively trying to act on it. for the record lead designer openings have opened up for Montreal (the guys that made the game). Haven't seen anything on lead narrative however. No doubt about that, but it's also about people who have passion for the series. Just handing it off to guys who have no history writing the story is kind of suicidal in a way. Basically no attachment. Is it any coincidence that the characters in ME2 are a lot better written than ME1? No. The guys who started the series had passion and wrote it better as they improved.
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Post by jennica on Mar 29, 2017 23:01:15 GMT
They take Krogan to Andromeda and try to cure the genophage (by trying to run gene therapy during cryosleep, which is complete BS on its own but ok). I mean, I am sure the salarians and turians on the initiative were thrilled about that idea, right? This, at least, could be explained. Salarians and turians may not be thrilled with the idea but a) they are not the only species in the Initiative and krogans developed a genetic mutation that naturally resisted the genophage so it's not like the gene therapy is the only thing that's helping them.
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Post by argentus on Mar 29, 2017 23:24:28 GMT
whole SAM idea bugs me because its essentially the same thing as what the Geth do after unifying them and the quarians (AI integrating with a host organic to improve functions).
and entire trilogy settling centuries of conflicting culminated in that unified synergy.
whereas it turned out Alec Ryder just happened to also design that same thing long before Shepard even met Tali or the Geth.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 29, 2017 23:36:29 GMT
In asari-asari relationship one of them would assume a male role, but would still not think of themselves as male.
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Post by nickles on Mar 29, 2017 23:39:29 GMT
Nothing about the asari beforehand supported the notion that they would even have any concept of males in their own culture, and Andromeda mentioning that there are now, for lack of a better term, transgender asari, just comes off as progressive pandering for good boy points. I believe Liara even says as much in ME1 Not to mention Aria talking about how Patriarch was a big joke because she kept him around under a name that didn't even exist within her people's dialect.
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Post by laudable11 on Mar 29, 2017 23:58:00 GMT
If Alec Ryder was dishonorably discharged from the Alliance, how the hell is he still a f*cking N7?
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Post by Iakus on Mar 30, 2017 0:14:32 GMT
If Alec Ryder was dishonorably discharged from the Alliance, how the hell is he still a f*cking N7? N7 is a level of training, not a rank. Like Shepard was an N7, but had a rank of "COmmander" THough some writers seem to forget that.
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Post by mrtijger on Mar 30, 2017 0:24:58 GMT
whole SAM idea bugs me because its essentially the same thing as what the Geth do after unifying them and the quarians (AI integrating with a host organic to improve functions). and entire trilogy settling centuries of conflicting culminated in that unified synergy. whereas it turned out Alec Ryder just happened to also design that same thing long before Shepard even met Tali or the Geth. Ryder gets the cold shoulder for even suggesting taking it further and sidelined and maybe you recall that Normandy 2 had an AI as well, the Quarians, before the ME3 situation at Rannoch wouldnt even consider such an approach, only when faced with annihilation do they relent, Ryder could have told them about his AI idea and they would have likely killed him on the spot. So, the idea of SAM isnt that far fetched or outrageous, AI's are not new or unheard of, they're banned and no one except Ryder and the Illusive Man are willing to use the idea, funny enough both with great succes. EDI and SAM. Ryders reasoning about the mistake the Quarians made with the Geth makes sense.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 30, 2017 0:33:57 GMT
I can get behind the Asari Male thing. PeeBee is a tomboy and I like her for that. I like to think their interactions with humans and other species has slowly created new norms for them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 0:45:58 GMT
If Alec Ryder was dishonorably discharged from the Alliance, how the hell is he still a f*cking N7? N7 is a level of training, not a rank. Like Shepard was an N7, but had a rank of "COmmander" THough some writers seem to forget that. Agreed. Though it's funny that some people say they don't want to wear N7 armor based on "respect for the lore". Alec clearly doesn't care, considering the guys that gave him that denomination dishonorably discharged him.
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Post by lierah on Mar 30, 2017 0:49:35 GMT
The whole project - the design of the AI, where they get the money from and why it was so important to get ARKS full of people out of the milky way is "sort of" explained through unlocking Alec's memories. I say "sort of" because there is a lot they said and a lot that they didn't say.
Without spoilers - there is more to the whole thing and it was more than just "go out to explore a new place". I'm going to assume there is someone that is as good at hiding AI stuff as much as TIM was.
As for the Asari, doesn't really bother me. It's not completely out of the question that there would be some that identify as male / transgender... just like humans. What 99% of them say they are like may be different for that 1%
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Post by TormDK on Mar 30, 2017 0:51:29 GMT
Oh man, where do I start?!? I mean, I kinda like the game on it's own but they should have made this a new IP or a reboot or a parallel universe or something because it just doesn't fit into the ME universe as we knew it at all (and I say this despite the fact that I usually despise reboots and parallel universes and that sort of thing). Let's start with the premise: Why go to Andromeda? In 2185 1% of the Milky Way is explored. You don't need to be 600 years in cryo and take the most stupid-ass risk in history to get a fresh start or satisfy your inner urge to explore at that point. I am not through the game yet and maybe there is some secret reason (I am just saying: reapers) that would make this more believable but even if there is, the whole "fresh start/pioneer spirit" thing seems to be motivation for most low level people you can ask and that already makes no sense. This by the way is also a problem while playing because to me, all those people in the AI aren't brave, they are simply stupid. For example, when we arrive at the Nexus and are supposed to be like "Oh noooo, this can't be happening!!!", I was outright laughing at them thinking "You idiots!!! This was so completely unnecessary and stupid, you deserve what you got." (and if I think my own protagonist is stupid, it doesn't help with identification wither(. Then, there is the technology they used: An ODSY drive would have made a HUGE difference for the original trilogy plot. Not only could the Milky Way people have outmaneuvered the reapers to some extent, who clearly don't have that technology. The bigger problem is that even the faint possibility to cross dark space and travel to other galaxies makes the reapers' cycle of extinction scheme a complete and utter joke. "Yea, we'll keep the Milky Way in check with the cycles and if synthetics develop in other galaxies, where they are a couple of billion years ahead of us in development because we just hibernate and do the same shit all over again every 50.000 years without progress, I am sure it'll be fine" It's even more BS now than it used to be. And Shepard doesn't even mention this (well, it wasn't retconned yet at the time, right?). Tech Nr. 2: SAM. SAM is a complete and utter violation of council rules on A.I. but all four council races built one without the council stepping in? Did they keep it secret? Oh, I am sure the council didn't mind them building "SAM nodes" into their dreadnought sized ARK ships without supervision or control. Governments usually don't care, right? Oh and what about a bunch of private investors building a space station almost as big as the Citadel itself just like that within 10 years that is also capable of flying to another galaxy? I am sure that was easy. Timelines: When the Andromeda Initiative was founded, humans had interstellar space flight for just over 20 years. and first contact happened 15 years before. Yet, a private human businesswoman has the cloud to start the most ambitious undertaking in the history of at the very least this reaper cycle (if not all cycles) as a multilateral cooperative endeavor evolving almost all MW species. She did this despite the fact that the other species and their galactic economies are millenia older and more advanced? I mean, the ME timeline was always shoddy at best but this brings it to a whole other level. They take Krogan to Andromeda and try to cure the genophage (by trying to run gene therapy during cryosleep, which is complete BS on its own but ok). I mean, I am sure the salarians and turians on the initiative were thrilled about that idea, right? I could go one for ages like this, those are just some points from the top of my head. While I do agree that the Asari male thing is just stupid and takes away from the species' interest factor, at least they just decided to call themselves something different, I can worl with that even if I think it was unnecessary and stupid. I do not buy some of the fundamental premises of this setup though and while I do really like the game itself, I'll never be able to play it without some measure of contempt because of those issues. I am not entirely through the story yet but if they don't come up with something absolutely amazing at some point, calling this Mass Effect is a bit of a farce. Play the game, there's story reasons for pretty much all your complaints you have listed here.
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Post by shepherdcommander on Mar 30, 2017 0:54:40 GMT
insofar as i am concerned asari are monogenedered and (most) humans will always recognize them as female for obvious reasons. It's really that simple.
as far as SAM and AI aboard the arks is concerned... looking back to ME1 on Noveria there is mention that Synthetic Insights is one of Four Companies sanctioned by the Council to develop Artificial Intelligence. Synthetic Insights dealt with a ton of protesters and I imagine so did the other three companies, AI are scrutinized throughout MET but this line clearly shows the Council has made exception.
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Post by kittsune on Mar 30, 2017 1:17:50 GMT
Didn't Liara's "father" sell drinks in a bar in ME2 on the citadel? And didn't she refer t9o herself as a "father" even if only in our terms? I seem to remember something like this.
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Post by roseofquartz on Mar 30, 2017 1:26:23 GMT
Wait... the male asari thing wasn't just forum satire? (I've been going through the game really slowly, to explore before my first playthrough ends.) There are conversations that you can have with Lexi T'perro, the Tempest's doctor, where the topic can drift to asari genders. There may be more NPCs in addition to Lexi, but she's the one that I know of. I never got that conversation with Lexi. How'd you get it? I heard about the asari thing at the cultural centre. Back in 2009 (mass effect 1), the whole gender identity and that wasn't as well explored as it is now. Also let's face it. All female species that looks just like humans and are promiscuous? Male fan service much? Bioware is trying to retcon that to reflect with changing times. Just not as well as they'd like. TBH I never liked the asari much. Especially since modern day asari seem to rely on an alien partner now to reproduce because of throwbacks and social stigma, changing gender identities makes sense to me.
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Post by roseofquartz on Mar 30, 2017 1:31:03 GMT
Female Salarian dockworker flies against everything we know about the Salarians. You mean the 10% female thing where they only ever seem to be leaders and politicians? That's a cultural thing, not biological. Maybe not all the salarian families/clans follow the ideal that females of their species are revered. Hell, the females themselves might be sick of it.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 30, 2017 1:45:53 GMT
Female Salarian dockworker flies against everything we know about the Salarians. You mean the 10% female thing where they only ever seem to be leaders and politicians? That's a cultural thing, not biological. Maybe not all the salarian families/clans follow the ideal that females of their species are revered. Hell, the females themselves might be sick of it. I'm a cynical old man. I look at it as a way in the MET to justify not having female Salarians and Krogan. "we can't have female salariasn and Krogan because they are super rare and important. yeah, thats it!" In story I have no problem with hand waving it on the basis that Andromeda is a 'fresh start' for the species. the geth telescope really bugged me. And yes, they attempted to explain it in game. However the explanation was dumb.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 1:50:09 GMT
Didn't Liara's "father" sell drinks in a bar in ME2 on the citadel? And didn't she refer t9o herself as a "father" even if only in our terms? I seem to remember something like this. ME2 - Illium, ME3 - Citadel, and yes. (Her name is Aethyta)
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Post by zipzap2000 on Mar 30, 2017 1:52:07 GMT
Two words: Project Overlord.
*Skolls Ryncol*
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Post by roseofquartz on Mar 30, 2017 1:52:29 GMT
You mean the 10% female thing where they only ever seem to be leaders and politicians? That's a cultural thing, not biological. Maybe not all the salarian families/clans follow the ideal that females of their species are revered. Hell, the females themselves might be sick of it. I'm a cynical old man. I look at it as a way in the MET to justify not having female Salarians and Krogan. "we can't have female salariasn and Krogan because they are super rare and important. yeah, thats it!" In story I have no problem with hand waving it on the basis that Andromeda is a 'fresh start' for the species. the geth telescope really bugged me. And yes, they attempted to explain it in game. However the explanation was dumb. meta wise that was totally the reason. Story wise I'm going with my explaination. The geth telescope was pointed at dark space to watch for the reapers, wasn't it? And the quarians stole it to look at andromeda?
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Post by zan on Mar 30, 2017 2:01:54 GMT
One thing worth noting is the types of people who would embark on such a mission. Think of the major (non forced) colonization movements in human history. They were led by either imperialist ambition or by outcasts migrating from societal conditions they do not find acceptable and wanting to start from scratch (or the combination of the two factors). So while forced migrations tended to represent the entirety of the people that had to migrate (for obvious reasons), the colonization and willing migrations tend to only attract certain types of individuals.
Based on the fact that the galaxy at large did not accept Reaper story by the time of departure, the population of colonization ships probably does not represent the population of MW races very well. There are more adventurous types, more outcasts who felt they did not fit in their society and people running from their past. This should in part explain why we are not seeing the same societal structures we saw in MW galaxy. Heck Turian Ark was supposedly constructed without knowledge of Turian Hierarchy, so it is not exactly fair to expect the established class structures surviving on the Arks.
The imperialist ambition is also present in the Ai, and based on the hints dropped about the Benefactors who likely had ulterior motives for this initiative (be it Cerberus or whatever other evil shadow organization BW came up with).
Note, the above does not mean that I do not find the contradictions with established lore jarring. I do. But above helps me rationalize them...somewhat.
Not so much for the physics issues. Those I just have to tune out, as I won't be able to enjoy the game. So every time I read something that is obviously not working the way it would, I just do a little "It's space magic. SPACE. MAGIC." chant and move on.
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