SwobyJ
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 30, 2017 2:16:28 GMT
The whole game feels like at least a partial retcon.
But I do not notice any, or at least many contradictions.
Some of the most criticized or mocked stuff, like female salarian dockworker and asari males, actually can be easily explained, or when not explained a lot, they can be easily understood with even minimal imagination on top of the small explanations. Can also add stuff like female krogan being rather active again, AI being more tolerated than ever, medigel not being as much of a thing, and N7 being stuck on a non-N7's body. In those sorts of cases, we'll have to see where Bioware takes this. Is this just a way to handwave the trilogy concepts? Is it a way for us to reach an eventual sort of 'parity' with the Milky Way if we see it again? Or is it just its own story that sets up its own society before coming into contact again with the 'old ways'?
There's a reason given for almost everything. Its just up to you whether you buy that reasoning and are perhaps okay with this continuing, or whether you don't buy the reasoning and are perhaps desiring to refocus onto how things were before (I can say for myself that I'd rather see dalatrass politicking and crazy GOT-style scenes than I ever wanted to see a female salarian being of more normal status).
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 30, 2017 2:17:51 GMT
You mean the 10% female thing where they only ever seem to be leaders and politicians? That's a cultural thing, not biological. Maybe not all the salarian families/clans follow the ideal that females of their species are revered. Hell, the females themselves might be sick of it. I'm a cynical old man. I look at it as a way in the MET to justify not having female Salarians and Krogan. "we can't have female salariasn and Krogan because they are super rare and important. yeah, thats it!" In story I have no problem with hand waving it on the basis that Andromeda is a 'fresh start' for the species. the geth telescope really bugged me. And yes, they attempted to explain it in game. However the explanation was dumb. The explanation seems dumb and we can probably have a valid opinion that its dumb until/unless Bioware releases content that delves much deeper into it and how it was done and what other things it has to do with. In itself, its like, 'wow that happened...... moving on'.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 30, 2017 2:33:10 GMT
Nothing about the asari beforehand supported the notion that they would even have any concept of males in their own culture, and Andromeda mentioning that there are now, for lack of a better term, transgender asari, just comes off as progressive pandering for good boy points. I believe Liara even says as much in ME1 Don't bother I've tried but the anti LGBT crowd will constantly gripe no point in trying to make sense.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 30, 2017 2:35:06 GMT
Wait... the male asari thing wasn't just forum satire? (I've been going through the game really slowly, to explore before my first playthrough ends.) Dude, I thought it was satire, too.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 30, 2017 2:36:41 GMT
If Alec Ryder was dishonorably discharged from the Alliance, how the hell is he still a f*cking N7? I don't care how far flung in the future, bureaucracy will always exist. Sigh.
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 30, 2017 3:59:53 GMT
The AI thing is solved once you figure out who is behind the Initiative. As mentioned repeatedly, the Council has nothing to do with it and would be against most of what they're doing. It's all Space Elon Musk's doing.
Their supertech is due to Alec Ryder being behind the whole, "We need AI to do this" and them breaking many many laws to do it.
Alec Ryder is nicely retconned in as probably the guy behind the Moon VI (I.e. EDI) since he all but states the argument they gave for making it. Which nicely explains why they kicked him off the project and why EDI is so damned friendly.
A female Salarian Dock Worker is only weird if you assume that EVERY Salarian female decides to go the career path chosen for her.
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Post by shermos on Mar 30, 2017 5:35:41 GMT
It's like I said in an earlier post. Bioware doesn't care about their own lore anymore. Everyone who does has left the company. People will try to make excuses for it or give handwavy explanations from the game, but the downward spiral will probably only continue from here.
As far as Asari T-girls go, I don't like it when I agree with the anti "SJW" crowd, but they have a point unfortunately. Bioware is shoving its ideology down people's throats while not walking their own talk:
This video has been posted on these boards before, but it's relevant here. It wouldn't have been a problem if a new race was introduced to explore transgender issues so long as it was done with some degree of subtlety.
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Post by fizzypop on Mar 30, 2017 5:49:05 GMT
I really don't think being inclusive is what's killing Mass effect some days I nearly agree with Bioware...that is damn sad.
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Post by admiralbonetopickmk2 on Mar 30, 2017 5:52:52 GMT
"RETCONS OR CONTRADICTIONS THAT YOU HAVE NOTICED"...
The entire game.
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Post by teawolf on Mar 30, 2017 6:00:45 GMT
Good point with the Patriarch conversation in ME2, but it's an interesting choice. Asari are a mono-sex species, but mono-gendered seems weird if you consider that Asari can take different roles in reproduction, which would have implied some would gravitated more towards one side of that or the other, which in turn would have probably given rise to different societal - and gender - roles, yeah? They could have had it like "Oh, the 'female' gender has become the default to non-Asari, based on the roles an alien and Asari would take in reproduction, with the Asari always being the mother by default and most Asari we've encountered have luckily ID'd as 'female', or just used to the mis-gendering due to cultural differences and rolled with it". A bit like how they tried to cough and pretend female Turians had always been in the games, just 'over there'. But that dialogue does sort of cement a one-gendered society so they missed that boat and this is indeed a retcon. They should explore the gender dynamics of the Asari though: A one-gender race is an interesting idea.
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Post by mordrek on Mar 30, 2017 6:23:13 GMT
If Alec Ryder was dishonorably discharged from the Alliance, how the hell is he still a f*cking N7? N7 is like Navy Seal. Once you are one, they can't take it away from you. That being said, how he keeps his N7 Military Armor? Good Question.
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 30, 2017 6:25:25 GMT
If Alec Ryder was dishonorably discharged from the Alliance, how the hell is he still a f*cking N7? N7 is like Navy Seal. Once you are one, they can't take it away from you. That being said, how he keeps his N7 Military Armor? Good Question. Alec Ryder is literally a man who violated one of the most important laws in the universe regarding AI research. The equivalent to constructing a nuclear weapon in his backyard. You're calling him to task for not returning his old armor?
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Post by parnashwind on Mar 30, 2017 6:28:25 GMT
Good point with the Patriarch conversation in ME2, but it's an interesting choice. Asari are a mono-sex species, but mono-gendered seems weird if you consider that Asari can take different roles in reproduction, which would have implied some would gravitated more towards one side of that or the other, which in turn would have probably given rise to different societal - and gender - roles, yeah? They could have had it like "Oh, the 'female' gender has become the default to non-Asari, based on the roles an alien and Asari would take in reproduction, with the Asari always being the mother by default and most Asari we've encountered have luckily ID'd as 'female', or just used to the mis-gendering due to cultural differences and rolled with it". A bit like how they tried to cough and pretend female Turians had always been in the games, just 'over there'. But that dialogue does sort of cement a one-gendered society so they missed that boat and this is indeed a retcon. They should explore the gender dynamics of the Asari though: A one-gender race is an interesting idea. Remember Javik. Remember the Protheans? They made sure that the Asari are aware of genders. Servant of their "Goddess" like Lucen is clearly referenced by Liara as "He". So, it is normal that Asari would think that while there is only one gender for them, there exists 2 genders and what their roles/definition are - "female" and "male" that to them an exclusively divine gender. I can hear Javik's evil laughter now... . o O (If only Liara knew. Hrm hrm hrmp) Anyways, if aliens ever come to earth and wanted to talk to us, I hope no SJW gets to meet them lest they start to preach "their morals" to these aliens pisses them off and get everyone killed.
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Post by mordrek on Mar 30, 2017 6:32:08 GMT
N7 is like Navy Seal. Once you are one, they can't take it away from you. That being said, how he keeps his N7 Military Armor? Good Question. Alec Ryder is literally a man who violated one of the most important laws in the universe regarding AI research. The equivalent to constructing a nuclear weapon in his backyard. You're calling him to task for not returning his old armor? Just pointing out, when you leave the Military, they don't let you keep your kit. But, I get you.
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 30, 2017 6:33:19 GMT
Asari don't have males but the animals on their world undoubtedly do.
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Mar 30, 2017 6:48:01 GMT
The Archon's ambush early in the game.
According to Mass Effect lore, any ship to ship engagement in space is effectively over once one opponent disengages and flees at FTL speed because it's impossible to track and follow them. This was one of the defenses of the Tempest lacking any guns, plus Kallo claimed in a trailer that it would be really hard to find.
Yet the Archon manages to place an entire fleet into the Tempest's path while it is engaged in FTL flight to another star system, something that strikes me as way harder to do than just following a ship that is moving around. How the hell did he do that? Space is a huge black void without any "highways" for ships to move along, so the Tempest could have been anywhere. At FTL speed. WTF?
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Post by commandercole5 on Mar 30, 2017 7:04:32 GMT
The Archon's ambush early in the game. According to Mass Effect lore, any ship to ship engagement in space is effectively over once one opponent disengages and flees at FTL speed because it's impossible to track and follow them. This was one of the defenses of the Tempest lacking any guns, plus Kallo claimed in a trailer that it would be really hard to find. Yet the Archon manages to place an entire fleet into the Tempest's path while it is engaged in FTL flight to another star system, something that strikes me as way harder to do than just following a ship that is moving around. How the hell did he do that? Space is a huge black void without any "highways" for ships to move along, so the Tempest could have been anywhere. At FTL speed. WTF? Kett are new, perhaps they have something that can see the shift that a FTL ship sees, or it coulda been terrible luck on the Temps part that they nearly slammed into the Kett at light speed...which come to think og it aside from losing their ship. woulda crippled Kett leadership
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Post by zipzap2000 on Mar 30, 2017 7:10:51 GMT
Add O'keer the genius trying to cure the genophage to my earlier project overlord comment.
I.....
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Post by ymirr on Mar 30, 2017 7:49:28 GMT
The Archon's ambush early in the game. According to Mass Effect lore, any ship to ship engagement in space is effectively over once one opponent disengages and flees at FTL speed because it's impossible to track and follow them. This was one of the defenses of the Tempest lacking any guns, plus Kallo claimed in a trailer that it would be really hard to find. Yet the Archon manages to place an entire fleet into the Tempest's path while it is engaged in FTL flight to another star system, something that strikes me as way harder to do than just following a ship that is moving around. How the hell did he do that? Space is a huge black void without any "highways" for ships to move along, so the Tempest could have been anywhere. At FTL speed. WTF? I figured that had to do with them knowing we meddled with Remnant tech, and that they were waiting for us to eventually head that way. We went in that direction because of the map showing us that something was "special" about that system. I figured the Kett knew that too. Either they were waiting for us, or looking for the same thing and we bumped into them.
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Post by shechinah on Mar 30, 2017 7:52:27 GMT
I have to agree with this whole Asari male thing being a bunch of horseshit. A clear attempt to shoehorn in some of that oh-so-sweet trans representation. I always took it as an attempt to continue a pointless tradition concerning the asari. See, the asari were conceptualized as the Green Alien Women trope of Mass Effect but in-universe, they were suppose to be a mono-gender race that didn't have a real concept of gender to apply to themselves. Likely because of what they were conceptualized as, this probably caused a presentation conflict that made the asari wound up being presented as completely female in everything down to every individual using female pronouns. Liara in the first game and Aethyta's conversations in the third both feature attempts to try and present the asari as more of a gender neutral race but as I said, because of how the asari have always presented, it comes off as pointless. In this game, it comes off as inconsistent. I'd rather they try to give up and create an actual gender neutral race instead.
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Post by lastpawn on Mar 30, 2017 8:28:37 GMT
There are conversations that you can have with Lexi T'perro, the Tempest's doctor, where the topic can drift to asari genders. There may be more NPCs in addition to Lexi, but she's the one that I know of. And apparently there's ambient dialogue on Nexus. This is so painfully shoehorned. Oh, wow. I didn't see that. That really is awful. These are sensitive topics, and to directly violate established lore of an alien species to shoehorn in a contemporary political argument is beyond tone-deaf.
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Post by Eterna on Mar 30, 2017 8:39:45 GMT
Not liking something does not make it a retcon people.
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Post by commandercryptarch on Mar 30, 2017 8:56:44 GMT
I can get behind the Asari Male thing. PeeBee is a tomboy and I like her for that. I like to think their interactions with humans and other species has slowly created new norms for them. I could get behind that as well ,ONLY if it can be explained like that. So many species living together,it is not unlikely some will have picked up some things they liked here and there from others. On the other hand,if they retcon this into Asari lore as something that was always there...I'm calling BS.
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Post by Ahriman on Mar 30, 2017 10:49:49 GMT
I'll just leave my nitpicks before this thread degrades into asari pronouns completely. Galaxy map inconsistencies/not-my-job/whatever: Planets and their descriptions - I've stopped counting how many times I've encountered planets like "...would be good for colonization, but there is no water" *70% ocean planet in the background*. "...atmosphere pressure 0.00" *clouds one the screen*. "Tempests is equipped with smaller version of ODSY drive" - route between two points has all systems in between. Why? What are we doing there? Visit drive-throughs? And what's the deal with He-3 rush? I've counted at least five gas giants marked for future extraction + pretty big quest on one planet dedicated to it. Just how many gas giants do you need to fill the needs of 100k people? Same on planets: Patches of solid rock on top of remnant structures, how did they get there exactly? Minerals lying on top of sand dunes? Sand, how does it work? Same planet, everyone is struggling from lack of water. That's some harsh planet we got here. Except the fact that nearby moon has breathable atmosphere and it rains there. Okay then. Same planet again. Modified Kett warbeasts are apparently part of local wildlife there. Got lost probably. On lore (spoilerish): In ME2 we were tasked to find best possible biotics and they were able to hold oversized mosquitoes for a few minutes with shield covering 3 people. MEA? To hell with it, just cover half of a dreadnought and destroy enemy ship with two biotics. Apparently Nexus has gene info for vat grow animals, but when it comes to humans it's only regular reproduction. Also, can someone explain me Nexus layout? Nexus is supposed to arrive with only one arm finished (judging by briefing), but Command Center is apparently in middle section. Did they have to build it on arrival or what? Also how did they manage to build most of the second arm without single functioning colony?
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Post by Lost Mercenary on Mar 30, 2017 10:54:15 GMT
The Termnius Systems.
In ME1 they are described as being a collection of non alligned races who would unite and start a war if any Council Ship set foot in there. And in ME2 it got retconed in gang territory and the wild west frontier of space. I found this really annoying but I can't really complain since it gave us Omega.
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