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Post by o Ventus on Mar 30, 2017 11:10:19 GMT
The whole project - the design of the AI, where they get the money from and why it was so important to get ARKS full of people out of the milky way is "sort of" explained through unlocking Alec's memories. I say "sort of" because there is a lot they said and a lot that they didn't say. Without spoilers - there is more to the whole thing and it was more than just "go out to explore a new place". I'm going to assume there is someone that is as good at hiding AI stuff as much as TIM was. As for the Asari, doesn't really bother me. It's not completely out of the question that there would be some that identify as male / transgender... just like humans. What 99% of them say they are like may be different for that 1% The problem with "trans" asari is that the male identity should not even be part of their society, as shown by just about everything the asari have as far as language and cultural suggestions can show. Life stages are all feminine in name, and there are literally no native asari words for male figureheads.
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The Rainbow Destined to Burn
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Post by jennica on Mar 30, 2017 11:15:46 GMT
Patches of solid rock on top of remnant structures, how did they get there exactly? Ryder (or maybe it was some of the companions, i don't remember who) actually comments on that, so i believe it would be explained.
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Post by o Ventus on Mar 30, 2017 11:19:29 GMT
Good point with the Patriarch conversation in ME2, but it's an interesting choice. Asari are a mono-sex species, but mono-gendered seems weird if you consider that Asari can take different roles in reproduction, which would have implied some would gravitated more towards one side of that or the other, which in turn would have probably given rise to different societal - and gender - roles, yeah? They could have had it like "Oh, the 'female' gender has become the default to non-Asari, based on the roles an alien and Asari would take in reproduction, with the Asari always being the mother by default and most Asari we've encountered have luckily ID'd as 'female', or just used to the mis-gendering due to cultural differences and rolled with it". A bit like how they tried to cough and pretend female Turians had always been in the games, just 'over there'. But that dialogue does sort of cement a one-gendered society so they missed that boat and this is indeed a retcon. They should explore the gender dynamics of the Asari though: A one-gender race is an interesting idea. Strictly speaking, "male" and "female" only describe sexual characteristics, and the asari don't reproduce via sex, so ascribing the male label to a non-birthing asari parent is simply incorrect usage of the word (in a similar way that a woman in a real-world lesbian couple wouldn't be a father just because her wife or girlfriend is giving birth and she isn't). Assuming that asari have sex organs (they talk about babies which implies live birth which requires a womb and a birth canal connected to some kind of opening, aka a vagina, so they most likely do), they'd have female organs, because in any couple featuring an asari partner, the asari (or at least AN asari when both partners are asari) will always be the one giving birth. By all given evidence, this is a universal trait. Everything shown about asari biology and physiology does not suggest that they should not be capable of having males.
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Post by jennica on Mar 30, 2017 11:21:05 GMT
The whole project - the design of the AI, where they get the money from and why it was so important to get ARKS full of people out of the milky way is "sort of" explained through unlocking Alec's memories. I say "sort of" because there is a lot they said and a lot that they didn't say. Without spoilers - there is more to the whole thing and it was more than just "go out to explore a new place". I'm going to assume there is someone that is as good at hiding AI stuff as much as TIM was. As for the Asari, doesn't really bother me. It's not completely out of the question that there would be some that identify as male / transgender... just like humans. What 99% of them say they are like may be different for that 1% Life stages are all feminine in name, and there are literally no native asari words for male figureheads. Yeah, that's why Aethita calls herself Liara's father, even though there shouldn't be any equivalent of this word in asari language. Bioware were never consistent with how asari view themselves.
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Post by o Ventus on Mar 30, 2017 11:26:00 GMT
There are conversations that you can have with Lexi T'perro, the Tempest's doctor, where the topic can drift to asari genders. There may be more NPCs in addition to Lexi, but she's the one that I know of. I never got that conversation with Lexi. How'd you get it? I heard about the asari thing at the cultural centre. Back in 2009 (mass effect 1), the whole gender identity and that wasn't as well explored as it is now. Also let's face it. All female species that looks just like humans and are promiscuous? Male fan service much? Bioware is trying to retcon that to reflect with changing times. Just not as well as they'd like. TBH I never liked the asari much. Especially since modern day asari seem to rely on an alien partner now to reproduce because of throwbacks and social stigma, changing gender identities makes sense to me. Mistake on my end, it's not a talk with Lexi, it's an ambient conversation that you can overhear. Fortunately a transcript is available: [[transcript since holo-Jien insisted on talking over them: asari: Yes, the gender binary of other races is irrelevant to us. angara: I’ve been using feminine pronouns this entire time. Should I- asari: In my case it’s fine to continue. Thank you for asking, I appreciate it. Some asari prefer male pronouns, while others gravitate toward gender-neutral where language allows. angara: My people have several pronouns to identify themselves with. Perhaps I should prepare a document. asari: Please do.]]
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Post by o Ventus on Mar 30, 2017 11:28:19 GMT
Life stages are all feminine in name, and there are literally no native asari words for male figureheads. Yeah, that's why Aethita calls herself Liara's father, even though there shouldn't be any equivalent of this word in asari language. Bioware were never consistent with how asari view themselves. Aethyta is holding an informal conversation with a human through a universal translator. Her use of "father" could just as easily be the closest analogue that the translator knows, or Aethyta is actually using some word for "father" but it's for the sake of simplicity since no other Milky Way race reproduces like the asari.
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Post by Ahriman on Mar 30, 2017 11:30:24 GMT
Life stages are all feminine in name, and there are literally no native asari words for male figureheads. Yeah, that's why Aethita calls herself Liara's father, even though there shouldn't be any equivalent of this word in asari language. Bioware were never consistent with how asari view themselves. Why is that? There is always a "donor" in the process, "father" simply sounds better in human language.
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Post by o Ventus on Mar 30, 2017 11:34:09 GMT
The Archon's ambush early in the game. According to Mass Effect lore, any ship to ship engagement in space is effectively over once one opponent disengages and flees at FTL speed because it's impossible to track and follow them. This was one of the defenses of the Tempest lacking any guns, plus Kallo claimed in a trailer that it would be really hard to find. Yet the Archon manages to place an entire fleet into the Tempest's path while it is engaged in FTL flight to another star system, something that strikes me as way harder to do than just following a ship that is moving around. How the hell did he do that? Space is a huge black void without any "highways" for ships to move along, so the Tempest could have been anywhere. At FTL speed. WTF? Hmm... Well, the Andromeda races haven't had Reapers to cull their advancement, so maybe some areas of technology are simply better than what the Milky Way races have? This is a paper-thin explanation though, nothing else really suggests that the Andromeda races are much more advanced than the Milky Way races in many ways. It's more plausible that it's just cheap drama at the expense of sense.
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The Rainbow Destined to Burn
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Post by jennica on Mar 30, 2017 11:54:16 GMT
Yeah, that's why Aethita calls herself Liara's father, even though there shouldn't be any equivalent of this word in asari language. Bioware were never consistent with how asari view themselves. Aethyta is holding an informal conversation with a human through a universal translator. Her use of "father" could just as easily be the closest analogue that the translator knows, or Aethyta is actually using some word for "father" but it's for the sake of simplicity since no other Milky Way race reproduces like the asari. By your logic "maiden", "matron" etc. could also be simply the closest analogue to asari words. It doesn't necessarily mean that they consider themselves women. And Liara's "male" and "female" don't have any real meaning to us" reads more like asari being gender neutral species and not all-female species wich contradicts me1 codex. So again, i don't see any consistency in here.
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Post by Fogg on Mar 30, 2017 11:56:00 GMT
A lot of characters from the Dragon Age universe seem to live in Andromeda. Yes, I've read all the thank you-mails after the main story.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 30, 2017 12:04:02 GMT
A lot of characters from the Dragon Age universe seem to live in Andromeda. Yes, I've read all the thank you-mails after the main story. I would do anything for a crossover at this point. Both DAVerse and Mass Effect has been stretched to a point where they no longer feel as they did back in last-gen in terms of visual identity and I'd like to see Mordin and Solas geek out, one scientifically and the other being the know-it-all on spirits.
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Post by Trynstark on Mar 30, 2017 12:39:05 GMT
Something that bothered me and was a contradiction in Andromeda itself is the Milky way, in a conversation of Jaal with Drack (I think was Drack) they talk about the Milky Way and why It is called like that and Drack say: Humans call it with that name but each specie have a different name for our galaxy (Or something like that) but when you enter The Kett ship and listen the Audiologs of the interrogations to the Salarian they say they come from the Milky Way, There is no human involved in such thing, so I don't think a Salarian would say their galaxy is the Milky way. And the other one is the Asari Ark, I recall reading a email talking about "Kett" but there is no way they would know they are called Kett because It seems that name was put by the people of the Nexus (And even Angaran said that they called the Kett by other name)
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 30, 2017 12:41:32 GMT
The whole project - the design of the AI, where they get the money from and why it was so important to get ARKS full of people out of the milky way is "sort of" explained through unlocking Alec's memories. I say "sort of" because there is a lot they said and a lot that they didn't say. Without spoilers - there is more to the whole thing and it was more than just "go out to explore a new place". I'm going to assume there is someone that is as good at hiding AI stuff as much as TIM was. As for the Asari, doesn't really bother me. It's not completely out of the question that there would be some that identify as male / transgender... just like humans. What 99% of them say they are like may be different for that 1% The problem with "trans" asari is that the male identity should not even be part of their society, as shown by just about everything the asari have as far as language and cultural suggestions can show. Life stages are all feminine in name, and there are literally no native asari words for male figureheads. Just throwing this out there but: * The Asari have been breeding with the males (and females) of other races for thousands of years now. * Asari would know about male gender from animals on their homeworld * Asari society is a gigantic con on them by the Protheans who shaped it as a weapon against the Reapers. In short, male ideals and gender being a part of society isn't at all a problem
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Post by armass81 on Mar 30, 2017 12:42:44 GMT
Salarian eyes now blink differently.
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Post by tenny on Mar 30, 2017 13:00:17 GMT
Something that bothered me and was a contradiction in Andromeda itself is the Milky way, in a conversation of Jaal with Drack (I think was Drack) they talk about the Milky Way and why It is called like that and Drack say: Humans call it with that name but each specie have a different name for our galaxy (Or something like that) but when you enter The Kett ship and listen the Audiologs of the interrogations to the Salarian they say they come from the Milky Way, There is no human involved in such thing, so I don't think a Salarian would say their galaxy is the Milky way. And the other one is the Asari Ark, I recall reading a email talking about "Kett" but there is no way they would know they are called Kett because It seems that name was put by the people of the Nexus (And even Angaran said that they called the Kett by other name) That's not inconsistency though, that's SAM translating the languages. That Salarian wasn't speaking in English, but presumably in Salarian language and used whatever word Salarians use to call Milky way - and SAM translated it to "Milky Way", because that's the term in English. The thing with Asari could be a mistake/oversight, but again it can be explained by SAM unifying all the terms automatically for Ryder's benefit. Remnat is also a word that's invented by PeeBee so logically nobody else should use it... But SAM is translating the languages using that word because thats the word you are familiar with.
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Post by lexxxich on Mar 30, 2017 13:15:03 GMT
Salarian eyes are now different entirely. Previously they had huge black pupils and visible sclera around them. Now it's all black with a vertical black pupil. Another thing. On Kadara you might find a shack of refugees who ask you to help them call their kin on Nexus. it's done by "fixing" the antenna and the moment you return to the shack you can hear them talk. Which is bullshit. Nexus is half a cluster away, the signal would have had a delay of months if not years. Kett Exaltation. Angaran "soul reincarnation". It's even more bullshit than Protheans reading auras.
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Post by lexxbomb on Mar 30, 2017 13:37:53 GMT
It's like I said in an earlier post. Bioware doesn't care about their own lore anymore. Everyone who does has left the company. People will try to make excuses for it or give handwavy explanations from the game, but the downward spiral will probably only continue from here. As far as Asari T-girls go, I don't like it when I agree with the anti "SJW" crowd, but they have a point unfortunately. Bioware is shoving its ideology down people's throats while not walking their own talk: This video has been posted on these boards before, but it's relevant here. It wouldn't have been a problem if a new race was introduced to explore transgender issues so long as it was done with some degree of subtlety. You do know Liana is not anti Social Justice?
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Post by mrtijger on Mar 30, 2017 13:47:24 GMT
Salarian eyes are now different entirely. Previously they had huge black pupils and visible sclera around them. Now it's all black with a vertical black pupil. Another thing. On Kadara you might find a shack of refugees who ask you to help them call their kin on Nexus. it's done by "fixing" the antenna and the moment you return to the shack you can hear them talk. Which is bullshit. Nexus is half a cluster away, the signal would have had a delay of months if not years. Kett Exaltation. Angaran "soul reincarnation". It's even more bullshit than Protheans reading auras. Quantum entanglement works fine for SAM, why not for Angarans? As for religions, well, yeah, thats how religions work, thats neither here nor there and hardly bullshit in that sense.
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Post by Ahriman on Mar 30, 2017 13:51:08 GMT
Another thing. On Kadara you might find a shack of refugees who ask you to help them call their kin on Nexus. it's done by "fixing" the antenna and the moment you return to the shack you can hear them talk. Which is bullshit. Nexus is half a cluster away, the signal would have had a delay of months if not years. Totally forgot about it. This entire quest just felt wrong. Some harmless colonists, surviving in middle of self-established prison, which were simply exiled by somebody's whim. The hell? Who would bother doing that to no-name colonists? Why can't I ask SAM about them?
It's somewhat explained later.
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 30, 2017 13:59:25 GMT
I confess, it's kind of funny the first person who says the reincarnation theory is complete bullshit is an Angaran. You can tell how irritated the Doctor back at camp was when you said you turned back on the Monolith with the power of Buddha. "We'll find the truth behind our superstitions with further research." Way to show gratitude to the gods, lady.
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Post by SentinelBorg on Mar 30, 2017 14:14:33 GMT
Life stages are all feminine in name, and there are literally no native asari words for male figureheads. Yeah, that's why Aethita calls herself Liara's father, even though there shouldn't be any equivalent of this word in asari language. Bioware were never consistent with how asari view themselves. They certainly have words for the birthgiving parent and the other one in a relationship. Aethita simply translates that to the human concepts of mother and father, which would be logical unless you have some word-redefining people shouting out that there are also birthgiving fathers (maybe a total of 100 til 2180?). ^^
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 30, 2017 14:20:23 GMT
Yeah, that's why Aethita calls herself Liara's father, even though there shouldn't be any equivalent of this word in asari language. Bioware were never consistent with how asari view themselves. They certainly have words for the birthgiving parent and the other one in a relationship. Aethita simply translates that to the human concepts of mother and father, which would be logical unless you have some word-redefining people shouting out that there are also birthgiving fathers (maybe a total of 100 til 2180?). ^^ At the risk of pointing out the obvious, couldn't the Asari language have also changed? You know...as languages do. Every generation?
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The Rainbow Destined to Burn
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Post by jennica on Mar 30, 2017 14:23:26 GMT
Yeah, that's why Aethita calls herself Liara's father, even though there shouldn't be any equivalent of this word in asari language. Bioware were never consistent with how asari view themselves. They certainly have words for the birthgiving parent and the other one in a relationship. Aethita simply translates that to the human concepts of mother and father, which would be logical unless you have some word-redefining people shouting out that there are also birthgiving fathers (maybe a total of 100 til 2180?). ^^ OK, i admit that it might be the case but my other points still stand.
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Post by o Ventus on Mar 30, 2017 14:29:31 GMT
The problem with "trans" asari is that the male identity should not even be part of their society, as shown by just about everything the asari have as far as language and cultural suggestions can show. Life stages are all feminine in name, and there are literally no native asari words for male figureheads. Just throwing this out there but: * The Asari have been breeding with the males (and females) of other races for thousands of years now. * Asari would know about male gender from animals on their homeworld * Asari society is a gigantic con on them by the Protheans who shaped it as a weapon against the Reapers. In short, male ideals and gender being a part of society isn't at all a problem They'd know about maleness as it pertains to organic life, just not for their own species, which was my point. Like, they might know the word "boy" because they regularly interact with other species that do have boys, but there's no word to refer to male asari. Again, I point to Aria for evidence of this. She names Patriarch "Patriarch" as a mockery, specifically BECAUSE no such equivalent word exists in the asari language (the joke being that Patriarch is a made-up concept, he's so irrelevant he may as well not exist). They can identify other sexes, it's just irrelevant to them in the context of their own culture because as far as the asari are concerned, there are no other sexes.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Mar 30, 2017 14:48:41 GMT
I can get behind the Asari Male thing. PeeBee is a tomboy and I like her for that. I like to think their interactions with humans and other species has slowly created new norms for them. I could get behind that as well ,ONLY if it can be explained like that. So many species living together,it is not unlikely some will have picked up some things they liked here and there from others. On the other hand,if they retcon this into Asari lore as something that was always there...I'm calling BS. They've definitely retconned it as 'something that was always there' because these asari are from the time period of the trilogy given that the centuries in between were in stasis. I don't even especially like asari, but I respected how they were written as a very distinctive culture (with its own problems) rather than just blue humans which is what this seems to be doing. The whole project - the design of the AI, where they get the money from and why it was so important to get ARKS full of people out of the milky way is "sort of" explained through unlocking Alec's memories. I say "sort of" because there is a lot they said and a lot that they didn't say. Without spoilers - there is more to the whole thing and it was more than just "go out to explore a new place". I'm going to assume there is someone that is as good at hiding AI stuff as much as TIM was. As for the Asari, doesn't really bother me. It's not completely out of the question that there would be some that identify as male / transgender... just like humans. What 99% of them say they are like may be different for that 1% The problem with "trans" asari is that the male identity should not even be part of their society, as shown by just about everything the asari have as far as language and cultural suggestions can show. Life stages are all feminine in name, and there are literally no native asari words for male figureheads. Exactly. Asari who identify as 'male' effectively are identifying as non-asari. Next we're going to have asari who call themselves human.
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