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Post by Durza on Mar 30, 2017 8:13:03 GMT
The idea behind the whole weight system was to give the players a choice, a tradeoff. Sure, your Adepts, Engineers, and Sentinels can now use any gun they wish! But we can't have the classes that are supposed to use their powers to damage also have excellent weapons, making the poor classes that rely on their weapons in the dust. So it was decided that if they wanted to have the really powerful sniper rifle, the assault rifle that tears through mobs of enemies easily at short and mid range, or a shotgun with massive stopping power they would have to take longer cooldowns to compensate.
This isn't happening. I can take a Vanquisher X on any given class with no cooldown penalty. Slap some ULM on that bad boy and I can also take a light secondary weapon as well. There also doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between one class's carrying capacity and anothers. At this point that matters little anyway. Classes with greater carrying capacity only benefit by being able to carry an extra weapon. Its nice, but how much does that really increase how much damage you can put out?
The weight system I think is a pretty critical part of balancing this game, it needs to matter. Right now, it doesn't matter much at all. There needs to be a much bigger difference in class's carrying capacity, I'm mostly thinking reduce the carrying capacity of more castey classes such as the Human Engineer and the Asari Adept There needs to be a bigger difference in the weight of the weapons, especially the assault rifles. Rifles that benefit greatly from Turbocharge should be heavier and deal more damage than they currently do (Cyclone, for instance)
With that in mind, the base cooldowns of most of the powers in this game need to be *slashed*, hard. The Asari Adept, for instance, should only cast powers as slowly as she does currently when she is carrying a Revenant, a Venom, or a Vanquisher. If she's carrying a Mattock, a Disciple, or a Viper she should be able to cast faster than that. That way an Asari Adept with a Vanquisher is still... okay, but with a lighter weapons she becomes almost as good as the N7 Fury was (just gotta give the BE's the ability to give her shields back instead of melee doing it)
When you can put almost any weapon on a cast heavy class, if either the weapons or the powers are good you're going to give either the caster classes or the weapons classes a sharp edge over the other.
If the powers are bad and the weapons are bad, you have this game at the moment. The most obvious exception to "The guns are bad" is the Vanquisher, and its pretty optimal at this point to put a vanquisher on any class you have.
When casters aren't able to use the exact same weapons as Soldiers and Infiltrators without penalty then you are free to make powers actually good or weapons actually good without either trivializing the game or making one subset of classes significantly better than the other.
Anyway, that's the gist of how I see this game. Everything is just uniformly bleh as far as player options go.
EDIT: I typed this late at night, and my ADHD meds wore off hours ago. I'll edit this in the morning and make it a little less like a mind-wandering rant
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Post by Durza on Mar 30, 2017 8:16:57 GMT
Really though, making Adepts and Engineers able to carry the same weapons as Soldiers and Infiltrators without any penalty is a bad move... its like this game is only paying lip service to the concept of weapon weight
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Post by zorinho20 on Mar 30, 2017 9:33:49 GMT
Everyone is special,no one is special.
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Post by cryosferon on Mar 30, 2017 9:41:16 GMT
OP is right.
and nobody who knows how to quickscope needs a second weapon to the vanquisher.
me3 had so much more variety. powers and debuffers mattered. so many weapons were viable, felt different and weight was a criteria, too
Andromeda has the vanquisher.
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Post by wizeman305 on Mar 30, 2017 9:48:00 GMT
Everyone is special,no one is special. Or if everyone is garbage.... everyone is garbage.
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Post by TormDK on Mar 30, 2017 9:49:01 GMT
OP is right. and nobody who knows how to quickscope needs a second weapon to the vanquisher. me3 had so much more variety. powers and debuffers mattered. so many weapons were viable, felt different and weight was a criteria, too Andromeda has the vanquisher. Once the headshot modificer is fixed, it'll just be yet another poor performaning sniper rifle. I fail to see what the fuss is about to be honest. It's a broken weapon, everyone knows it's broken and thus uses it, and so the outcry will be massive when it's fixed. The Asari Adept is already a power house to the point of being OP, and lowering cooldowns would alter alot of things - not just with her, but there are plenty of otherwise fairly broken characters available as it is.
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Post by Durza on Mar 30, 2017 9:50:13 GMT
and nobody who knows how to quickscope needs a second weapon to the vanquisher. Indeed. A gun like that should come with a decently hefty recharge penalty for casters. Infiltrators should be able to take it without a penalty. Maybe Soldiers should be able to carry one and an AR or Shotgun with a minimal recharge penalty. An example of the balance changes this game needs include reducing the carrying capacity of casters, making the Vanquisher heavier, and slashing caster power CD's across the board (doubling the damage behind biotic explosions would be nice as well, but that's a little offtopic)
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Post by Durza on Mar 30, 2017 9:55:16 GMT
OP is right. and nobody who knows how to quickscope needs a second weapon to the vanquisher. me3 had so much more variety. powers and debuffers mattered. so many weapons were viable, felt different and weight was a criteria, too Andromeda has the vanquisher. Once the headshot modificer is fixed, it'll just be yet another poor performaning sniper rifle. I fail to see what the fuss is about to be honest. It's a broken weapon, everyone knows it's broken and thus uses it, and so the outcry will be massive when it's fixed. The Asari Adept is already a power house to the point of being OP, and lowering cooldowns would alter alot of things - not just with her, but there are plenty of otherwise fairly broken characters available as it is. Vanquisher broken? What? Vanquisher is where I think most guns should be, aside from it being light as a feather. Asari Adept is just a poor-man's Fury. Which characters are broken? Even better, which classes/setups do you think are "balanced", what is your standard for "balance"?
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Post by themightypanda on Mar 30, 2017 9:56:46 GMT
And Melee is ridiculously strong on Vanguards, shotguns are weak.
Its incredibly sad when a Talon 1 performs better than a Katana X.
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Post by Durza on Mar 30, 2017 9:59:36 GMT
Shotgun spread is stupid in this game.
Sure in ME3 we had the problem of accuracy boosts affecting shotgun spread, but they fixed that by making spread its own stat.
Now they also gave shotguns ridiculous spread...
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Post by commandcodes on Mar 30, 2017 10:05:20 GMT
The whole point of the new balance is to mix gunplay and powers. Carrying a second weapon matters a lot for those not dedicated to sniping. There are subtle and important differences of carry capacity depending on the classes.
This is not to say that things could not be improved. Nerf Vanquisher and buff other guns to start with. There are already powers that are very fast recharging, but devs can look at cooldowns for some classes, sure. Fortunately I have two characters which are great fun
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Post by wizeman305 on Mar 30, 2017 10:05:25 GMT
Yeah the Vanquisher is a bit strong but I think its more a balancing issue of weapons on casters than the gun itself. Snipers should be able to one shot mooks on silver with a well place headshot, but they shouldn't be light enough for everyone to use no issues especially when it performs so well despite skill bonuses or lack of. Even then the fact the weight system is so lenient there is almost not reason to even take weight into account when you're being reasonable. In ME3 we were given a bonus for keeping it very light and most casters kept it there, now as long as we have it under a threshold there is no perk to only taking one gun into a fight.
Also another thing is there is no reason to run a slow firing weapon, especially now that it is so easy to set off combos, in 3 slow weapons applied ammo effects pretty well, now they barely proc and using anything slower than your typical AR will not see the ammo effect. I used to run the viper on the engineer because it procced with almost every shot, now I need to run with an SMG in order to proc the baddies.
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Post by mgc1971 on Mar 30, 2017 10:07:28 GMT
It's a little sad to read some people asking for nerfs on a game that desperately needs huge weapon/power buffs in order to stop being broken and boring
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Post by cryosferon on Mar 30, 2017 10:16:26 GMT
It's a little sad to read some people asking for nerfs on a game that desperately needs huge weapon/power buffs in order to stop being broken and boring please read my post again. I am not asking for the vanquisher to get nerfed. there is just no variety atm. for several reasons. and most UR weapons don't deserve that trait. and regarding weight: even in this department the vanquisher doesnt necessarily need to get nerfed. in me3 we could have 200% cooldowns instead of 100 which was very important for casters. the cooldowns in Andromeda are a bit slow anyway atm. and make combos count more, this would also contribute to take the focus away from the vanquisher...
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Post by manalishi on Mar 30, 2017 10:20:20 GMT
Asari Adept doesn't need reduced cooldowns IF you take 6b in Lance and 5b in Barrier. You can stand toe-to-toe with a Beserker, or any non sync enemy, spamming melee and lance with Annihilation active until it drops. Faster than a Fury with throw/annihilation. Only drawback is you need to be in the enemy's face to do this.
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Post by vanguard4 on Mar 30, 2017 10:27:34 GMT
The idea behind the whole weight system was to give the players a choice, a tradeoff. Sure, your Adepts, Engineers, and Sentinels can now use any gun they wish! But we can't have the classes that are supposed to use their powers to damage also have excellent weapons, making the poor classes that rely on their weapons in the dust. So it was decided that if they wanted to have the really powerful sniper rifle, the assault rifle that tears through mobs of enemies easily at short and mid range, or a shotgun with massive stopping power they would have to take longer cooldowns to compensate. This isn't happening. I agree. What also isn´t happening that you have permanently active powers like the Destroyer armor supporting weapon platforms. Basically any kit in Andromeda is a caster. The only always-active power I can think of is fortification and it´s not particularly shaped for offensive power. I know those kits have only been DLC kits in ME3, however, I still do not understand the argument "Don´t compare Andromeda to ME3 with all it´s DLCs" - They have had lots of experience and data from back then.
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Post by Urizen on Mar 30, 2017 10:28:50 GMT
Wait a few months before you start slashing cds across the board. Wait til you have promoted a couple times and then take a look at the cds.The first level cuts it down by 10% already and should there be more ( which iirc there were ), that problem might solve itself.
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Post by TormDK on Mar 30, 2017 10:35:12 GMT
Yeah the Vanquisher is a bit strong but I think its more a balancing issue of weapons on casters than the gun itself. Snipers should be able to one shot mooks on silver with a well place headshot, but they shouldn't be light enough for everyone to use no issues especially when it performs so well despite skill bonuses or lack of. They already do. I can do one kill headshots on non-shielded mooks with rank 1 of Black Widow, and Sniper rail 1 on Gold. The Vanquisher can do this as well, just without the sniper rail due to it's "feature" The whole point is that people whine about balance currently, but 99% of us do not have a near maxed manifest. Gold is already easy enough to be farm status, especially given how melee is working currently. So I'm very much against buffs at this time, it's too early in the games lifecycle to start buffing things. I would look to change the Kett Ascendant as the only thing (Prehaps by replacing him with the Exalted Kett Krogan they teased on social media yesterday) so that Kett could be viable on Gold as well, without being huge pains in the arse. Then I'd look to make Outlaws more difficult. The Agent and Anarcist in particular are pretty worthless. I'd give Agents shields and some sort of more accurate weapon so they actually start being worthwhile to shoot at over regular mooks, and I'd give Anarcists Incinerate instead of granades (Or prehaps give them both, so that they can nade first, and incinerate just after we leave cover). Remnant are in a good spot I think. People keep complaining about Observers, but I think they are fine if your team composition is balanced. Obviously people that play melee characters will not typically agree, since Observers are their bane, but for those of us who like the gun-play they are fine. Once this was done, I'd increase the XP and credit bonus for doing random enemy/random location as to entice people away from their now cemented habits.
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Post by Ares on Mar 30, 2017 10:42:46 GMT
In me3 guns actually did damage. I never gave a flying shit about cooldowns because stuff died regardless and cd's were never "too long" anyway. Powers and power combos were more powerful too which obviously helped (no need to spam powers 24/7). In mea I'm actually starting to look at cooldowns because guns are so bad in general. This makes me a sad batarian he-man
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 10:50:22 GMT
me3 had so much more variety. powers and debuffers mattered. so many weapons were viable, felt different and weight was a criteria, too Andromeda has the vanquisher. At the end of its DLCs and Balance fixes, absolutely. Then, however, remember a time when certain weapons or abilities in ME3MP were broken as hell (Falcon, Typhoon, Flamer while Reegar-cheesing). Looking at Andromeda's state from that time's perspective, you could also say: ME3 has the Krysae. Looking at the countless ME3MP matches I've played over the last few months - and there isn't much variety either. There are, of course, more viable weapons "theoretically" available. However, all I ever see in Pugs are: Reegar, Harrier, Black-Widow, Hurricane, maybe Acolyte and Typhoon. Even awesome weapons like CSMG, Wraith, Venom, Claymore, Piranha, Widow etc. are seldomly seen. Not to devalue any of your statements, of course. All weapons and most powers/combos seem to desperately need some sort of buff.
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Post by wizeman305 on Mar 30, 2017 10:51:06 GMT
Yeah the Vanquisher is a bit strong but I think its more a balancing issue of weapons on casters than the gun itself. Snipers should be able to one shot mooks on silver with a well place headshot, but they shouldn't be light enough for everyone to use no issues especially when it performs so well despite skill bonuses or lack of. They already do. I can do one kill headshots on non-shielded mooks with rank 1 of Black Widow, and Sniper rail 1 on Gold. The Vanquisher can do this as well, just without the sniper rail due to it's "feature" The whole point is that people whine about balance currently, but 99% of us do not have a near maxed manifest. Gold is already easy enough to be farm status, especially given how melee is working currently. So I'm very much against buffs at this time, it's too early in the games lifecycle to start buffing things. I would look to change the Kett Ascendant as the only thing (Prehaps by replacing him with the Exalted Kett Krogan they teased on social media yesterday) so that Kett could be viable on Gold as well, without being huge pains in the arse. Then I'd look to make Outlaws more difficult. The Agent and Anarcist in particular are pretty worthless. I'd give Agents shields and some sort of more accurate weapon so they actually start being worthwhile to shoot at over regular mooks, and I'd give Anarcists Incinerate instead of granades (Or prehaps give them both, so that they can nade first, and incinerate just after we leave cover). Remnant are in a good spot I think. People keep complaining about Observers, but I think they are fine if your team composition is balanced. Obviously people that play melee characters will not typically agree, since Observers are their bane, but for those of us who like the gun-play they are fine. Once this was done, I'd increase the XP and credit bonus for doing random enemy/random location as to entice people away from their now cemented habits. I understand where you are coming from that you enjoy the general idea is that gunplay and powers should be used in unison but right now it just seems so out of whack. I was a heavy power user in ME3 but I always had the fire power to back up and complement my playstyle. My favorite was double bubble justicar with a wraith and it was glorious, and while I am in love with the adept and the fact that more than one explosion can be set off from one singularity it still leaves much to desire when I need to soften up basic enemies to kill them with two explosions, damage from singularity and the final explosion then kill a straggler or two. All this work for basic enemies, but I do it cause its funner than camping in a corner with the vanquisher. I will give it to you though it is a bit early to be talking about buffs, but the common player is still struggling through bronze, and even too afraid to go into silver. Most of us on here are the exception so we need to consider that before buffing enemies and making the entry into gold that much harder. I do think the best thing right now is slight adjustments to weapons to bring them up to par, and honestly a boost to explosions. I read somewhere here that right now explosions are not scaling properly with the powers level, so if they manage to fix that it may be enough to satisfy my main complaint as a power user. Also the grenades the Anarchist throw are way different than the ones the Raiders throw, I figured it out today. The Anarchist throws out an inferno grenade that leave a DOT effect that hurts like a bitch.
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Post by junker1990 on Mar 30, 2017 10:52:07 GMT
Now you should cut your excellent analysis text into pieces of 140 symbols each and send them to the Bioware Twitter account.
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Post by TormDK on Mar 30, 2017 11:13:49 GMT
The point is, if that is their "special" gimmic (and I know about the inferno granades, which I which I suggested Incinerate to go with it, for the fire based theme. They are sentinels after all.) - then that is not enough to make them dangerous.
Meanwhile Berserkers are monsters with their flak cannon. If it only worked like that on our characters....
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Post by tatann on Mar 30, 2017 11:19:34 GMT
Engineer is already underpowered (usually my favorite kit) as a caster, if he cannot bring good weapons, he's useless Also, cooldowns are already too long at 100%, I don't play Mass Effect to use 3 powers per minute (unless I'm playing the Destroyer from ME3)
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Post by Urizen on Mar 30, 2017 21:04:15 GMT
Engineer is already underpowered (usually my favorite kit) as a caster, if he cannot bring good weapons, he's useless Also, cooldowns are already too long at 100%, I don't play Mass Effect to use 3 powers per minute (unless I'm playing the Destroyer from ME3) Please, take a look at your character selection screen again pls, there is this huge bar that requires like 2 million and sumthing xp to fill and reads sumthing like 10% cooldown reduction or 10% moar health. CDs as they are at the moment are arguably rather high, but wait a year and I get the feeling those cds are far more agreeable.
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