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Post by hobocommand3r on Apr 3, 2017 2:29:54 GMT
The n7 grind in this game is absolute cancer compared to when me3 launched. In me3 there were like 7 ultra rares at launch so you had a good chance of getting the weapons you wanted within a decent timeframe.
Meanwhile this game has 12 or 13 weapons and 5 x10 character cards.....
I'm 8000 apex rating and still don't have a piranha or hurricane 1, they are the only ultra rares I actually want unlocks for other than the angara avenger. I've grinded A LOT. I have the other weapons but they are all garbage (ok bw isn't garbage but it's worse than vanq). I'm pretty sure if this was me3 I'd have most of my ultra rares around level 3-4 by now, and I'd probably t least have 1 or 2 levels for the guns I wanted.
If you're gonna make us grind this hard for n7 stuff at least make the items worth a damn. The ultra rares in this game need some serious buffing. If they keep it like this people are gonna stop playing because it's not fun to grind for 3-4 hours for an ultra rare and then it's an 80% chance that it's a garbage one you won't want to use. It takes the exitement out of opening packs and completing games when the odds of getting a good item are so abysmal.
Many ultra rares wouldn't be a problem if they were good but now they are mostly trash, the guns in particular but most of the classes are pretty uninspired as well. Hell, only the operator and the avenger actually has a unique skill, you'd think that ultra rare classes would be more distinguished from the normal ones in terms of abilities if it's gonna be this hard to max them out. Compare the current bunch of 'ultra rare'' classes to classes like the turian ghost, n7 destroyer, n7 shadow or fury for example, then they seem very ordinary.
Some of the items in the ultra rare pool just baffle me, the valkyrie, eagle, ushior and dhan for example. Valkyrie has like a 3rd of the dps it had in 3 and it wasn't considered very good there. Eagle is way worse than equalizer in every way. Ushior basically does the damage a paladin did, but with 1 shot..... I'm pretty sure paladin originally got buffed because it was too weak, and it ended up being a 3 in the mag 424 damage at level 1 pistol in the end. But a 500 damage ushior with 1 in the mag is what we get in this game? What? Wraith got buffed a ton to where it eventually did 940 damage at level 1. Meanwhile in this game we get the dhan, and it's basically a wraith in terms of mag zise and firerate but has 580 damage or something.
Again, just why? Why give us all these nerfed trash guns when snipers still do the same damage? If weapons do lower damage across the board because enemy health values were different, cool, but snipers still do the same damage numbers or even higher so clearly thats not the case.
And then you have gun like the soned which is a piece of crap compared to typhoon and harrier, Naladen is bad compared to krysae, rozerad again just seems really bad, the crusader has been heavily nerfed since 3 even though that wasn't op either.
I sure hope they adress this soon, making the ultra rare grind this long in terms of time investment needed and then making the rewards so poor is just so unfun.
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Post by gethadept on Apr 3, 2017 2:35:04 GMT
Well... BW wants people to feel a little bit of desperation in order to push them to spend cash. That`s my understanding at least. I didn`t expect a lot from MEAMP because MP3MP took forever to get where it is now as well.
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Post by hieroglyph on Apr 3, 2017 2:41:17 GMT
I completely agree and anything short of weekly balance changes will not be enough to fix them all.
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Post by hobocommand3r on Apr 3, 2017 2:46:38 GMT
Well... BW wants people to feel a little bit of desperation in order to push them to spend cash. That`s my understanding at least. I didn`t expect a lot from MEAMP because MP3MP took forever to get where it is now as well. The more I play the less I'd want to pay for packs because the chance of actually getting a good unlock as it stands is so miniscule. It's like a 20-25% chance of getting an n7 card in the first place from premium packs but then it's about a 5-6/17 chance of actually getting something decent from said n7 card (depending on what ultra rare classes you find decent). If they had all these ultra rares and many of them were good, surely you'd get people that wanted them all and would be willing to pay for that. I guess the current logic they are going with at least for the weapons instead is to make most of them (very) bad, so some individuals end up desperately spending hundreds for a chance at getting the 2 that are actually good. Well I for one think the first option of making many good would still make the big spenders wanna pay to collect them all but it would also keep the more casual people playing the game longer, and that would also make spending smaller sums potentiall worthwhile. Currently it's basically no point unless you just wanna spend a small sum in the beginning for a shot at a decent gold weapon to get you started on the grind, beyond that you need to be willing to shell out hundreds or you might as well not bother if you're hoping to get a good ultra rare item.
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Post by xaijin on Apr 3, 2017 2:55:10 GMT
and that would be the point.
You'll recall two trust fund kiddies bought 60 grand worth of stuff in me3mp the first month of release, and several people here have already spent into the thousands.
Selling way lower than me3 because of magical whimsical trainwreck SP ain't going to pay for itself, is it.
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Post by hobocommand3r on Apr 3, 2017 3:24:14 GMT
Well they'd still have to shell out thounsands to rank up all the ultra rares, they'd have to spend way more than in me3 since the ultra rare pool is so much bigger. But they'd at least get a bit more value for their money if 80% of the items weren't trash.
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Post by sinfulfox on Apr 3, 2017 4:01:05 GMT
Bought 12000 andromeda points earlier today, In total i got 7 ultra rares, and about 10 uncommon which seem to be bugged and are rolled as ultra rare instead of uncommon.
As is the premium package is straight up robbery, credits or andromeda points either way...
The odds atm are unacceptable
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Post by reyzaburrel on Apr 3, 2017 4:34:25 GMT
The n7 grind in this game is absolute cancer compared to when me3 launched. In me3 there were like 7 ultra rares at launch so you had a good chance of getting the weapons you wanted within a decent timeframe. Meanwhile this game has 12 or 13 weapons and 5 x10 character cards..... I'm 8000 apex rating and still don't have a piranha or hurricane 1, they are the only ultra rares I actually want unlocks for other than the angara avenger. I've grinded A LOT. I have the other weapons but they are all garbage (ok bw isn't garbage but it's worse than vanq). I'm pretty sure if this was me3 I'd have most of my ultra rares around level 3-4 by now, and I'd probably t least have 1 or 2 levels for the guns I wanted. If you're gonna make us grind this hard for n7 stuff at least make the items worth a damn. The ultra rares in this game need some serious buffing. If they keep it like this people are gonna stop playing because it's not fun to grind for 3-4 hours for an ultra rare and then it's an 80% chance that it's a garbage one you won't want to use. It takes the exitement out of opening packs and completing games when the odds of getting a good item are so abysmal. Many ultra rares wouldn't be a problem if they were good but now they are mostly trash, the guns in particular but most of the classes are pretty uninspired as well. Hell, only the operator and the avenger actually has a unique skill, you'd think that ultra rare classes would be more distinguished from the normal ones in terms of abilities if it's gonna be this hard to max them out. Compare the current bunch of 'ultra rare'' classes to classes like the turian ghost, n7 destroyer, n7 shadow or fury for example, then they seem very ordinary. Some of the items in the ultra rare pool just baffle me, the valkyrie, eagle, ushior and dhan for example. Valkyrie has like a 3rd of the dps it had in 3 and it wasn't considered very good there. Eagle is way worse than equalizer in every way. Ushior basically does the damage a paladin did, but with 1 shot..... I'm pretty sure paladin originally got buffed because it was too weak, and it ended up being a 3 in the mag 424 damage at level 1 pistol in the end. But a 500 damage ushior with 1 in the mag is what we get in this game? What? Wraith got buffed a ton to where it eventually did 940 damage at level 1. Meanwhile in this game we get the dhan, and it's basically a wraith in terms of mag zise and firerate but has 580 damage or something. Again, just why? Why give us all these nerfed trash guns when snipers still do the same damage? If weapons do lower damage across the board because enemy health values were different, cool, but snipers still do the same damage numbers or even higher so clearly thats not the case. And then you have gun like the soned which is a piece of crap compared to typhoon and harrier, Naladen is bad compared to krysae, rozerad again just seems really bad, the crusader has been heavily nerfed since 3 even though that wasn't op either. I sure hope they adress this soon, making the ultra rare grind this long in terms of time investment needed and then making the rewards so poor is just so unfun. I'm glad im not the only one who noticed the lack of unique abilities in the ultra rare class. Human Kineticist is a major offender.
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Post by Malaclypse on Apr 3, 2017 4:52:22 GMT
Personally, I consider issues with the RNG to be about #93 on my list of things that need fixing in the MP.
Grind is grind, but would seem much less grindy if biotic combos, for instance, did satisfying things to the bastards trying to kill me. I really never understood all the moaning about the ME3 store from folks who never realized that the vanilla human adept (and a dozen other kits) was platinum ready with an Avenger. What is wrong with MEAMP is that the only kits we can say that about are melee builds -- but this game is not and shouldn't be Street Fighter/Mortal Combat (nor Call of Duty).
I will totally freaking implode if what gets "fixed" about this game is the freaking store. I worry that complaining about the RNG will be something that *does* catch the ear of the Bioware Messiah(tm) and should something so unbelievably trivial become a priority for Her - to the exclusion of this game's Real Ultimate Problems - that would be a crying shame.
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Post by missileglitcher on Apr 3, 2017 4:58:54 GMT
The thing that really worries me is the new skill point system and the ultra rare characters. I don't care at all about the ultra rare weapons except for two. But those characters...I won't be playing them properly until they reach rank 10 in a few years time, if I'm still alive by then.
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Post by zorinho20 on Apr 3, 2017 5:18:19 GMT
I bought bunch of Premium packs, got only two URs - Valkyrie and Rozerad. Meanwhile,on my "F2P" account got 2 URs from welcome packs.
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Post by mgc1971 on Apr 3, 2017 5:54:14 GMT
Let's be honest, the RNG system on our beloved MAss Effect 3 was also a pain in the ass.I never paid for BW point and had a maxed manifest the same day that the last DLC was released because I played so many hours that I had millions of credits saved
MEA has taken this RNG bullshit to a whole new level, because it is now 10x worse.
Speak with your wallets, and dont buy BW points.That's the only way to show EA that we are not fools
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Post by missileglitcher on Apr 3, 2017 6:35:14 GMT
Let's be honest, the RNG system on our beloved MAss Effect 3 was also a pain in the ass.I never paid for BW point and had a maxed manifest the same day that the last DLC was released because I played so many hours that I had millions of credits saved MEA has taken this RNG bullshit to a whole new level, because it is now 10x worse. Speak with your wallets, and dont buy BW points.That's the only way to show EA that we are not fools But back then, we still had things like the claymore and reegar carbine, and reload cancelling, and we didn't have 25 skill points locked behind 10 ultra rare cards...for 5 characters.
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Post by akots on Apr 3, 2017 7:01:46 GMT
Let's be honest, the RNG system on our beloved MAss Effect 3 was also a pain in the ass. ... The main difference is that there were never ever any characters locked as UR. Those which are nominally UR dropped from spectre packs, they were actually assigned in a rare spot. Looks like BW/EA just does not want to let the people play the UR chars in Meda. OK, never mind, there is always human soldier, you can have fun with that. He's very good actually and quite enjoyable. But there are so many of these UR characters which probably most people (literally like 80% of all who ever played) will never get. IDK of course but I fail to see the point. Also, locking skill points behind character cards serves no real purpose that anybody can understand. Considering how much effort and time it takes to level a kit to 20, this is just plain silly. the only purpose is that you can play lvl 1 kit on gold right from the start. IMHO, instead of tempting players to buy random packs, the pools are so diluted with trash and filler guns that it might do the opposite and repel people from actually playing. Also, keep in mind, that in ME3, some N7 guns were given away as commendation packs after weekly challenges for a few months. IIRC, it was sometimes something really silly like get 50K points with avenger and I got hurricane I in this commendation pack. Next week I got Crusader, etc etc.
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Post by mrfuddyduddy on Apr 3, 2017 7:22:59 GMT
Don't forget OP that we also got Ultra Rare Boosters at launch this time around as well... (ME3MP didn't seen lvl IV Boosters until like 3 content drops in, when Platinum was introduced)
I'm only about APEX 3500 and I have 1 Ultra Rare out of 7 I've received that wasn't a booster, grind is super real. What's sad is that playing Human Vanguard I've found to be incredibly easy, full extraction on Gold like 95% of the time and I use so little ammo I could not touch a resupply the entire match and be fine.
Game is so poorly balanced you either need a Infiltrator with a Vanquisher or a Vanguard and nothing but your fist.
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Post by P51Mus7ang on Apr 3, 2017 8:09:07 GMT
There are many things the dev need to address in this game but I do hope they look at the drops. I personally do not care for the point system and having t play endless hours to get N7 cards, N7 weapons atthis point I don't care about so much, the ones I have and the feeedback here, well I have the wapons I need t get me through the various levels. When it comes to kits however I believe we should be able to have a way by winning matches to get the full skill points max'd out
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Post by oniangel on Apr 3, 2017 8:11:16 GMT
I keep getting characters for rares I already have. Fuck I even get level 4 consumables. This is getting depressing not getting any rare weapon. Best I got is the falcon and that is not cutting it.
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Post by ddrguy300 on Apr 3, 2017 8:12:23 GMT
Personally, I consider issues with the RNG to be about #93 on my list of things that need fixing in the MP. Grind is grind, but would seem much less grindy if biotic combos, for instance, did satisfying things to the bastards trying to kill me. I really never understood all the moaning about the ME3 store from folks who never realized that the vanilla human adept (and a dozen other kits) was platinum ready with an Avenger. What is wrong with MEAMP is that the only kits we can say that about are melee builds -- but this game is not and shouldn't be Street Fighter/Mortal Combat (nor Call of Duty). I will totally freaking implode if what gets "fixed" about this game is the freaking store. I worry that complaining about the RNG will be something that *does* catch the ear of the Bioware Messiah(tm) and should something so unbelievably trivial become a priority for Her - to the exclusion of this game's Real Ultimate Problems - that would be a crying shame. This. There are many things this game needs to have corrected, but the ultra rare drop rate, while highly important, takes a back seat to many of the more pressing matters and game breaking bugs. Gun balance, combo damage, unacceptable game crashes, sound drop outs, device glitches, credits/xp not being given, faction balance/kett nerf are just a few that come to mind.
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Post by Sailears on Apr 3, 2017 8:51:01 GMT
Good, good OP, feel the hate flow through you. I cannot agree more which is why I am not touching MP any further and sticking to Singleplayer until they sort out this rng store bullshit and provide direct ways of unlocking UR characters at the very least. IMHO, instead of tempting players to buy random packs, the pools are so diluted with trash and filler guns that it might do the opposite and repel people from actually playing. In a nutshell, this. I refuse to play MP any further or buy any more packs until I can have a better and more direct chance of unlocking the Human Kineticist. I refuse to stress myself with the frustration of spending so much time playing for so little chance of getting what you want. I am put off buying packs with real money due to the miniscule chance of getting what I want. I already feel robbed with the £36 I spent on premium packs at launch and got nothing I wanted. I feel robbed by EA with their stupid rng microtransactions and will not continue to let myself be taken in with the nonsense. It's sad despite MEAMP having fun combat it has the most bullshit character unlock system deincentivising me from playing. In contrast I spend £48 on kegs in the Gwent closed beta and because I can mill cards there to partially work towards what I do want from card scrap I feel it was worth spending. I don't feel the same level of helplessness relying on pure luck as I do with this stupid store.
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Post by Sailears on Apr 3, 2017 8:58:04 GMT
To add to this - comparisons with ME3's rng store are beside the point because ME3's store was equally as stupid and frustrating again for relying on the same bullshit of pure luck. I hated that almost as much as I hate this, though it's worse here due to I-X UR character unlocks.
I will happily pay EA more money if they decide to scrap the idea of a random store system from their games entirely, replacing it with another carrot for their microtransactions (ie extensive cosmetic customisation and quality of life upgrades) and instead allow all gameplay and character build features to be available for purchase directly.
I don't enjoy gambling time away.
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Post by akots on Apr 3, 2017 9:11:27 GMT
... In contrast I spend £48 on kegs in the Gwent closed beta and because I can mill cards there to partially work towards what I do want from card scrap I feel it was worth spending. I don't feel the same level of helplessness ... I have also a beta-gwent account there and played maybe 5 or 6 hours in January, no real money invested though, I am not a gambler-type person. There were so few people there that I never came back. Maybe, it's time to revisit.
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Post by Sailears on Apr 3, 2017 9:29:15 GMT
... In contrast I spend £48 on kegs in the Gwent closed beta and because I can mill cards there to partially work towards what I do want from card scrap I feel it was worth spending. I don't feel the same level of helplessness ... I have also a beta-gwent account there and played maybe 5 or 6 hours in January, no real money invested though, I am not a gambler-type person. There were so few people there that I never came back. Maybe, it's time to revisit. It's great fun though I've only put it on hold while I'm playing MEA single player. Favourite faction has to be Skellige. Balance is constantly changing as the devs experiment with new things which keeps it fresh. Also any kegs purchased will be refunded on the wipe when Open Beta comes around. And you will get free kegs for each level above a certain level reached (can't remember if it was above 5 or 15) as well as free kegs for ranks reached in competitive play. So I feel secure knowing my money was well spent, especially because the game is free to play otherwise anyway!
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Post by Ajax on Apr 3, 2017 9:55:28 GMT
They had years upon years of experience with balancing ME3MP and they gave us something that's basically ME3MP at launch - equally unbalanced, full of annoyances and frustrating greediness (yes, mix character cards into the card pool, people will love you for that). Not to mention it's almost exactly the same mechanics-wise. Most of the enemies feel like reskins of ME3MP.
I'd give my left nut to know who is making these decisions. Bioware themselves? Or EA? Are they really so short-term oriented they don't care about the long-term staying (and selling) power of the multiplayer? They just want to cash out what they can within the first month and then bye-bye?
I spent 100 bucks on ME3MP. Here I played 10 games and stopped completely. Not out of rage or boycott or anything like that - I'm just not having fun. The guns are weak, the card pool is full of character cards so the chance I get one of the 3 or 4 useful guns is even worse, there's absolutely no innovation, the enemies are the same.....Plus the SP was written by interns and the characters feel like placeholders. There has never been a game I was looking forward to as much as MEA. And it broke my heart.
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Post by hobocommand3r on Apr 3, 2017 13:01:43 GMT
Personally, I consider issues with the RNG to be about #93 on my list of things that need fixing in the MP. Grind is grind, but would seem much less grindy if biotic combos, for instance, did satisfying things to the bastards trying to kill me. I really never understood all the moaning about the ME3 store from folks who never realized that the vanilla human adept (and a dozen other kits) was platinum ready with an Avenger. What is wrong with MEAMP is that the only kits we can say that about are melee builds -- but this game is not and shouldn't be Street Fighter/Mortal Combat (nor Call of Duty). I will totally freaking implode if what gets "fixed" about this game is the freaking store. I worry that complaining about the RNG will be something that *does* catch the ear of the Bioware Messiah(tm) and should something so unbelievably trivial become a priority for Her - to the exclusion of this game's Real Ultimate Problems - that would be a crying shame. Grind is indeed grind and I agree about the combo point (for example, if there was more variety to the characters playstyle it would seem like less of a grind. At tthe moment I play about 5 characters regularly and none of them rely on combos at all, I don't really touch the pure tech or biotic classes other than insurgent and asari (melee) adept because trying to combo things is really just a waste of time at the moment. However the grind would also feel like less of a grind if 10/13 ultra rare weapons weren't bad. If they were all useable that would mean you could bring a larger ariety of guns into games,and t would bring a greater sense of reward since unlocking n7 cards would then feel rewarding and not dissapointning more often than not. Currently you need to grind for at least 2-3 hours to get a chance at an ultra rare (on average) and then when you do get an n7 card its usually something you don't really want. Would also be 100% better if the level I-X ultra rare character system went away. That is going to be so bad if they release ultra rare dlc character. Imagine tryint to get the new dlc character and you have a 1/18 chance for your n7 cards to turn into one. That will be fun. And that will be the scenario for most people, because maxing out the current bunch of ultra rares before dlc comes out (you could do this in me3 without spending money or grinding all day)will be close to impossible wietohut major spending I think. Unless you play 10 hours a day.
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hobocommand3r
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Post by hobocommand3r on Apr 3, 2017 13:09:02 GMT
Personally, I consider issues with the RNG to be about #93 on my list of things that need fixing in the MP. Grind is grind, but would seem much less grindy if biotic combos, for instance, did satisfying things to the bastards trying to kill me. I really never understood all the moaning about the ME3 store from folks who never realized that the vanilla human adept (and a dozen other kits) was platinum ready with an Avenger. What is wrong with MEAMP is that the only kits we can say that about are melee builds -- but this game is not and shouldn't be Street Fighter/Mortal Combat (nor Call of Duty). I will totally freaking implode if what gets "fixed" about this game is the freaking store. I worry that complaining about the RNG will be something that *does* catch the ear of the Bioware Messiah(tm) and should something so unbelievably trivial become a priority for Her - to the exclusion of this game's Real Ultimate Problems - that would be a crying shame. This. There are many things this game needs to have corrected, but the ultra rare drop rate, while highly important, takes a back seat to many of the more pressing matters and game breaking bugs. Gun balance, combo damage, unacceptable game crashes, sound drop outs, device glitches, credits/xp not being given, faction balance/kett nerf are just a few that come to mind. I'm not complaining about the drop rate really. I'm complaining about the ultra rare loot pool being dilluted with mostly bad/unuseable guns and character cards. If you could only get the character cards once and all the guns were viable I wouldn't have made this topic, the drop rate isn't high but not worse than in me3 and I didn't complain there. I'm complaining that we have 180 ultra rare cards to unlock at launch and then about 130 of them are pointless or shouldn't be there (9 levels of character cards x 5 and all the bad guns like ushior, valkyrie, eagle etc). The fact that the ultra rare pool is now so big will become a real issue when dlc drops and they make more ultra rare items. Unlocking them will be extremely hard compared to getting the first sets of me3 dlc ultra rares.
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