crimsonfenryr
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Post by crimsonfenryr on Apr 3, 2017 5:32:05 GMT
So to start off, I'm planning this to be the first of a couple of posts going over my thoughts on what the Pathfinders could have been, theories on why they didn't play a bigger role in Andromeda, and tossing out ideas for how they could have been better/ ideas on how the characters could be saved in future content. This first post will be looking at the Pathfinders as a whole. There will be follow up posts for each individual Pathfinder (except Raeka as I choose not to save her and I am waiting for the upcoming patch before I do my second playthrough) that goes more into detail about my thoughts on what was done right, what needed improvement, and what should have been improved upon before launch.
THE FOLLOWING IS MY OWN THOUGHTS ON THE TOPIC BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE STUDYING GAME DESIGN AND BY NO MEANS REFLECT ANY PROBLEMS OR DECISIONS MADE BY THE MASS EFFECT: ANDROMEDA DEVELOPMENT TEAM.
Pathfinders
As a whole I feel that the Pathfinders were an enormous missed opportunity within Mass Effect: Andromeda. The characters themselves see to be contradictory as Ryder goes on some rather well designed missions, both lore wise and design wise, in order to find the Pathfinders only to have them turn into minor talking points only to turn up again when Ryder is in need (akin to Deus Ex Machina). While most of these Pathfinders show some detailed character design, it is very hard to understand why these character that seem like they should be important allies that assist Ryder are simply pushed to the side and almost forgotten once their quests have been finished. At the core, it almost feels as if the Pathfinders were left unfinished and thrown into the story haphazardly because the developers suddenly remembered that the other Pathfinders existed and were supposed to be important. This feeling of incompleteness is the major issue I have with the Pathfinders.
A Note on Incompleteness
It is important to mention that many, many things do not always turn out as the developers had hoped or wanted due to time constraints from both deadlines and publishers. It is not uncommon for things to either be cut or changed in a game (or other media such as film for example) in order for the product to be ready for launch.
Unfinished Business
There is a lot of evidence present that makes me believe that the Pathfinders were left in an unfinished state (Avitus more obvious than the Asari and Salarian Pathfinders). First, is the lack of interaction the Pathfinders have in the main story. They appear hardly at all and only when the plot needs them too. Some examples are:
- To allow Ryder to make it to Khi Tasira (Deus Ex Machina, they ONLY show up AFTER the Initiative staff has denied Ryder the resources to make it to Khi AND have a special program that will allow their ships to appear as the Tempest so Ryder can slip by, a little too convenient)
- Salarian Pathfinder appears as part of the main quest and appears to be a major character as well as a major moral decision but becomes unimportant after the SINGLE quest
- As assistance for the final battle of Meridian (and to save Dunn if you can gather all three)
In addition, each Pathfinder has almost no change in his/her dialogue options (Avitus especially but more on that in his post). Only a couple options change dialogue throughout the game like Hayjer when you ask him about his Pathfinder training (asking right after Paarchero is saved he mentions how hard it is without his SAM while some time after that event when his SAM is back up, he talks about how much easier it is now he has SAM). This lack of change to reflect Ryder's decisions and progress in the story feels out of place and strange for characters of the Mass Effect series. So much so that they actually feel less important than the Initiative staff as they will always comment on your quests as long as they can relate to it, and their options change or have additions when you complete certain quests.
What They Could Be
Honestly with character as important as the Pathfinders, there could have been so much for them to offer. For starters, the Pathfinders could each have offered quests that related to the situations you found them in (Raeka/Hayjer could offer you quests that further understanding of the Kett, Sarissa/Vederia could have you assault Kett facilities or supply lines, and Avitus could have you help find Turian survivors). In addition to offering Tasks, the Pathfinders could each have had a sort of loyalty quest where they accompany you in addition to your squadmates on a big mission that helps or deepens their understanding of what it means to be a Pathfinder. My hope for future content and for the next game is that the developers make time to further expand on each of the Pathfinders and make them the important allies they were meant to be.
Links to Pathfinder Analysis
(Coming soon!)
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CTPhipps
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Post by CTPhipps on Apr 3, 2017 5:36:05 GMT
Because you're the Pathfinder with his own Pathfinder team and they're all solo.
None of them are important since you've done all of their job.
I do agree, though, it'd probably be a better idea they were all dead.
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SwobyJ
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 3, 2017 10:48:36 GMT
Look this whole game's story was an opportunity for Bioware to break their mould (while honoring it), but it ended up being often just as interesting/boring as ever, if not more boring, save for areas where they took some notes from recent content (Cit DLC, DAI).
Yeah sure it would have been cool to experience the other Pathfinders be super important and remind you how you're not the One. But of course things that remind the player of that are probably some of the first on the cutting room floor.
Spectres had tons of potential too but most we got out of it was a major (Saren) and minor (Vasir) antagonist and the reason for Shepard to go to places (mostly in ME1's case) and be allowed to throw his weight around.
BW seems to have their general way of doing things and that general way means we don't really see many of the organization/status the protagonist is in, doing things of that organization/status on anywhere near equal level to the protagonist.
Can't outshine the shiny thing.
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Post by CTPhipps on Apr 3, 2017 10:57:50 GMT
Also, you don't want to take away from the fact the PC is the star.
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mrtijger
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Post by mrtijger on Apr 3, 2017 11:17:08 GMT
Look this whole game's story was an opportunity for Bioware to break their mould (while honoring it), but it ended up being often just as interesting/boring as ever, if not more boring, save for areas where they took some notes from recent content (Cit DLC, DAI). Yeah sure it would have been cool to experience the other Pathfinders be super important and remind you how you're not the One. But of course things that remind the player of that are probably some of the first on the cutting room floor. Spectres had tons of potential too but most we got out of it was a major (Saren) and minor (Vasir) antagonist and the reason for Shepard to go to places (mostly in ME1's case) and be allowed to throw his weight around. BW seems to have their general way of doing things and that general way means we don't really see many of the organization/status the protagonist is in, doing things of that organization/status on anywhere near equal level to the protagonist. Can't outshine the shiny thing. Of course you cannot, else what point is there to the player character? |
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Post by vyndral on Apr 3, 2017 11:38:20 GMT
Look this whole game's story was an opportunity for Bioware to break their mould (while honoring it), but it ended up being often just as interesting/boring as ever, if not more boring, save for areas where they took some notes from recent content (Cit DLC, DAI). Yeah sure it would have been cool to experience the other Pathfinders be super important and remind you how you're not the One. But of course things that remind the player of that are probably some of the first on the cutting room floor. Spectres had tons of potential too but most we got out of it was a major (Saren) and minor (Vasir) antagonist and the reason for Shepard to go to places (mostly in ME1's case) and be allowed to throw his weight around. BW seems to have their general way of doing things and that general way means we don't really see many of the organization/status the protagonist is in, doing things of that organization/status on anywhere near equal level to the protagonist. Can't outshine the shiny thing. Of course you cannot, else what point is there to the player character? This. Also you start wasting resources. Say for example there was a point as Pathfinder you say, ' ok im going to go clear out Voeld. PathfinderB you go take care of Kadara.' Ok great now PathfinderB is important. They settled a planet. But all the stuff put in the game about Kadara is now mostly pointless, because everything there happens off screen. You also have the I want to make choices crowd demanding to get to make the choice of going to Voeld or Kadara and PathfinderB doing the one I dont want. Now you have made a situation where half the players wont see one planet. And finally, I am the One. |
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roseofquartz
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Post by roseofquartz on Apr 3, 2017 12:38:55 GMT
Can't outshine the shiny thing. Basically. I get why, because you don't want the player to feel outdone or over done, but I still feel they don't take advantage of things enough. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 3, 2017 14:28:22 GMT
They should've called them something else. Pathfinder sounds so dumb and nerdy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 15:41:57 GMT
They should've called them something else. Pathfinder sounds so dumb and nerdy. Ranger? Tracker? Space Hobo? I am just tired of titles in RPG's. |
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crimsonfenryr
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Post by crimsonfenryr on Apr 3, 2017 21:28:19 GMT
A lot of what I'm seeing right now is that if the PAthfinders had a more important role, they would "outshine" the player and/or take away content from the game because it is the job of the Pathfinder to find and settle new planets. This is NOT what I was thinking about from a design perspective so it appears I failed to accurately explain my ideas. What Makes the Player Special/Different from Every Other Character in Andromeda?
- You can control the Remnant
- Because you can control the Remnant you can access the vaults and heal the dying planets
- Your SAM is different from all the rest and interfaces with you on a much deeper level giving you special abilities the other Pathfinders don't have
- You are able to succeed where others have failed
What Defines a Pathfinder?- Someone who finds a path no one else can see
- Someone who inspires HOPE when others have fallen to despair
- Someone who shows the skills and talents of a strong leader
- Someone who is willing to put the needs of his/her people before his/her own (subject to debate as this can conflict with player decisions)
What I expected from the Pathfinders was to take up a role in the story very similar to Reyes. Reyes is a character who has similar depth to your squadmates but is not part of your crew and still plays an important part in the story (or side story if you prefer). The Pathfinders should share a similar role where they feel like important allies by providing the player with additional quests or story based events that are designed to make the characters three dimensional WITHOUT making the player feel like the spotlight has been forcibly taken off them. The player should NOT be able to command the Pathfinders to explore/settle playable planets. The quests should be defined as the Pathfinders NEED YOU not the other way around. |
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crimsonfenryr
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Post by crimsonfenryr on Apr 4, 2017 20:45:49 GMT
I'm working on some ideas for "loyalty" missions (the idea is something similar to a loyalty mission but not exactly. Just not sure of a better way to say it) for the Pathfinders that relate to what each of them are engaged in after their rescue.
Hayjer/Raeka - Studying the Kett and Exaltation
Sarissa/Vederia - Studying Kett routes through the Scourge
Avitus - Finding survivors from the Natanus
Hoping to post the first in-depth analysis of Hayjer tomorrow.
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FeralEwok
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 5, 2017 0:04:34 GMT
They should've called them something else. Pathfinder sounds so dumb and nerdy. I'm guessing the Pathfinders that dropped into Normandy hours before the invasion were thinking the same thing. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 5, 2017 0:15:03 GMT
They should've called them something else. Pathfinder sounds so dumb and nerdy. I'm guessing the Pathfinders that dropped into Normandy hours before the invasion were thinking the same thing. But this is space sci fi. it's supposed to be cool! |
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crimsonfenryr
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Post by crimsonfenryr on Apr 5, 2017 2:57:22 GMT
They should've called them something else. Pathfinder sounds so dumb and nerdy. Ranger? Tracker? Space Hobo? I am just tired of titles in RPG's. Well if Pathfinder doesn't pan out, my vote is for Starchaser  I think constantly being called Ryder would get pretty boring after a while though Maybe Tann could have a quest where you get to rename the Pathfinders? He'd probably shoot down anything you come up with though... |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 5, 2017 4:13:23 GMT
I'm working on some ideas for "loyalty" missions (the idea is something similar to a loyalty mission but not exactly. Just not sure of a better way to say it) for the Pathfinders that relate to what each of them are engaged in after their rescue. Hayjer/Raeka - Studying the Kett and Exaltation Sarissa/[Other Asari] - Studying Kett routes through the Scourge Avitus - Finding survivors from the Natanus Hoping to post the first in-depth analysis of Hayjer tomorrow. The other asari is named Vederia. |
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crimsonfenryr
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Post by crimsonfenryr on Apr 5, 2017 4:46:40 GMT
I'm working on some ideas for "loyalty" missions (the idea is something similar to a loyalty mission but not exactly. Just not sure of a better way to say it) for the Pathfinders that relate to what each of them are engaged in after their rescue. Hayjer/Raeka - Studying the Kett and Exaltation Sarissa/[Other Asari] - Studying Kett routes through the Scourge Avitus - Finding survivors from the Natanus Hoping to post the first in-depth analysis of Hayjer tomorrow. The other asari is named Vederia. Thank you! I clearly did not choose her on my first playthrough X3 All posts updated with her name now |
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