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Post by Zerfidius on Apr 4, 2017 13:45:26 GMT
Sorry my mistake! The Wraith is actually quite good compared to an early ME3-Eagle and perfectly Silver-viable, The Wraith is a Platinum-worthy weapon for ME3. Easily one of the best shotguns for Vanguards. Sorry for offtopic. I need to get back to work. The wraith was a good weapon because... Wraith Shotgun - Damage increased from [83.1-103.9] to [117.6-147.0] - Spare Ammo increased from [10-20] to [18-28] - Encumbrance decreased from [1.5-0.9] to [1.2-0.9] Wraith at release was unworthy. In its final form it was one of the best vanguard weapons. Light enough to bring the SGOB, use a melee during the long refire delay, hide the reload inside you're next charge animation. We can hope bw takes a similar approach to the ushior et al.
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Post by wiz on Apr 4, 2017 13:47:00 GMT
Ultra Rare does not mean good. It never has.
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Post by vanguard4 on Apr 4, 2017 13:48:26 GMT
Fair Enough. I didn´t know some people even saved the patch notes to their hard drives to quote in discussion about the successor. Well played, Sir.
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Post by parthianshot on Apr 4, 2017 13:49:50 GMT
This pistol, this ULTRA RARE PISTOL, is the most garbage weapon I have ever used! And there are alot of garbage weapons in this game. How is it even an Ultra rare? There are common weapons that are better than this weapon. Hell! My melee is stronger than this weapon. smfh Bioware This needs a "BIOWER PLZ"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 13:52:05 GMT
You're off topic. Where did I say the Talon is a sidearm? I was speaking of the Ushior, which isn't meant to be used like a Widow (long range), an Equalizer (takes time to finish off enemies), a Talon (short range), a Falcon (unreliable), the Scorpion (deals more damage but I don't trust the delay and it can't be moded with a Receiver)... etc. The Ushior has its "niche". It simply doesn't make sense as a main weapon (well, I guess it could be the main weapon of an Angara Avenger though). And I agree on the fact that most shotguns are irrelevant right now. As for the "fact" that uncommon pistols are better than URs pistols: I've yet to see the point of the Rozerad (I guess it's meant for big/slow targets but it's not very efficient when you can use the Hurricane), but I'd certainly take the Hurricane and the Eagle over the Carnifex and the Phalanx. First, apologies on my side, if I sounded aggressive. I just wanted to express that i clearly disagree with your sidearm theory, for all the following reasons. The Talon can kill mooks on a soldier with Supercharge or what-the-name-of-the-power-that-makes-guns-go-pewpew across half the map, making it a perfectly viable main weapon. Since Ushior and Talon are, for whatever dumb reason, both pistols, the Classification of pistols as sidearms doesn´t work. So, basically, within the category of pistols you have good weapons ( the talon ) and sidearms ( the Ushior ) - how does that make sense? Every weapon in this game is balanced by weight, ammo capacity, damage, fire rate, etc. - the Ushior is just inferior in every regard, but there is no distinction between Main weapon pistols and sidearm pistols. People expect, from a weapon that is Ultrarare and behaves like a Widow, that it does similiar damage to a Widow. This expectation is not wrong - and if the design intention had been otherwise, it is clearly very badly communicated to players. Most people agree, from what is my limited understanding, that there is currently no balance between all the weapons and your point about bringing a sidearm is the new design intention: Power based classes are clearly not going to do that and kits that don´t care about cooldown, will bring two heavy weapons anyway. No worries; this is not a "theory" though, only my thoughts on the weapon (what I would do with the Ushior) and the gameplay (now that reload cancel is gone). Seeing it having only 1 shot, a lot of players expected the gun to be like Executioner (which is actually described as a sidearm in ME3MP, repurposed as a main damage dealer). I'm trying to understand the Ushior as what it is, not as what I want it to be. If I'm using a % weapon or a weapon that's slow to reload, I would use the Ushior as a sidearm to quickly finish off an enemy at all ranges. I can't do that with the Talon or the Hurricane (and all classes, not only classes with turbocharge). Of course as a "main" damage dealer, Ushior is garbage. Maybe that's not its job then. Maybe it's not made to one shot everything. Maybe MEAMP doesn't revolve around oneshoting things. Without reload cancel, using the Ushior as a main damage dealer would be dumb. As for the "sidearm" / "pistol" debate, I don't see the point. In ME3MP I was using the disciple as a "sidearm" because of its weight and the ability to give it a melee mod, while my main weapon dealt bullet damage. I sometimes used the Suppressor on mooks with an AR as my damage dealer. In MEAMP, I don't consider the Sidewinder to be an excellent pistol too, but as a sidearm pistol it does a good job; except it takes 3 shots to make what Ushior does in 1. If you want it as your main weapon on some kits, it does need an enormous buff indeed. "the Ushior is just inferior in every regard" In one shot it deals more damage than any AR X shot and pistol X shot (except Scorpion). Some snipers rifles and shotguns do better damage per shot, except 1) they usually weighs way more and 2) are respectively harder to use in close quarters or from afar, while the Ushior can be used in both circumstances. If you're looking for long-term DPS, Ushior is garbage indeed. In certain circumstances, if you want a good amount of damage, an immediate stoping power in a very short time at any range, then the Ushior is one of the best weapon to use. "People expect, from a weapon that is Ultrarare and behaves like a Widow, that it does similiar damage to a Widow." Then the issue isn't with the gun. If people want the Widow, the Widow is already in the game and is easier to get, except it weighs twice what the Ushior weighs and is clunky to use at short-to-medium range.
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Post by Transcended One on Apr 4, 2017 15:35:31 GMT
Sorry my mistake! The Wraith is actually quite good compared to an early ME3-Eagle and perfectly Silver-viable, The Wraith is a Platinum-worthy weapon for ME3. Easily one of the best shotguns for Vanguards. Sorry for offtopic. I need to get back to work. It did receive a few buffs before Platinum got released. EDIT: The Wraith is a Platinum-worthy weapon for ME3. Easily one of the best shotguns for Vanguards. Sorry for offtopic. I need to get back to work. The wraith was a good weapon because... Wraith Shotgun - Damage increased from [83.1-103.9] to [117.6-147.0] - Spare Ammo increased from [10-20] to [18-28] - Encumbrance decreased from [1.5-0.9] to [1.2-0.9] Wraith at release was unworthy. In its final form it was one of the best vanguard weapons. Light enough to bring the SGOB, use a melee during the long refire delay, hide the reload inside you're next charge animation. We can hope bw takes a similar approach to the ushior et al. Thanks! But yeah back on topic! Ushior isn't great. Is it the new 'N7 Eagle'?
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 4, 2017 15:55:37 GMT
Ultra Rare does not mean good. It never has. "There's a reason why there aren't that many of them" Like in real life, there're quite a few "rare" weapons, but that doesn't mean they're any good. Just look at the UTAS UTS-15 shotgun (anyone remembers it from BF4?) it's very rare, and yet a plastic piece of trash.
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Post by crashsuit on Apr 4, 2017 16:38:19 GMT
even the Executioner was trash in ME3, we called it the Almost Executioner, because it wouldn't one shot anything
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Post by Zerfidius on Apr 4, 2017 19:00:59 GMT
Fair Enough. I didn´t know some people even saved the patch notes to their hard drives to quote in discussion about the successor. Well played, Sir. It's actually just a few posts down in the pinned Balance thread. But I will still accept your obeisance.
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 4, 2017 21:53:50 GMT
even the Executioner was trash in ME3, we called it the Almost Executioner, because it wouldn't one shot anything I know, I know. Some of you may get trigger when I say that However, the gun on its own wasn't good. The damage wasn't enough kill anything beyond basic shit like husks or maybe cannibals (and the latter only if you headshot them), and then you got stucked into an awful long reload time that couldn't be cancelled. It was good on specific kits or if you buff the crap out of it with passives + mod + amp. You could have fun with the 2 shot build in the hands of the N7 Destroyer, and with infiltrators due to TC. I in fact used the gun as a "poor sniper's choice" playing with the quafiltrator. Shock nades for debuff, and then TC and shoot. It usually killed most things that way. But then again, that's using the gun with a specific kit.
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xrayspex73
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Post by xrayspex73 on Apr 4, 2017 23:43:39 GMT
All of the Ultra Rares I have received suck. Every.single.one.
I do not even get excited anymore when I see the N7 cards.
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Post by Geitenneuker on Apr 5, 2017 0:05:24 GMT
The eagle is fairly bad.
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Post by hobocommand3r on Apr 5, 2017 0:44:50 GMT
The dps on it is lower than the equalizer and the equalizer has about a 150% larger base magazine so why would anyone ever use the eagle except to troll themselves?
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Post by Sailears on Apr 5, 2017 23:32:50 GMT
I wouldn't mind seeing this more like the Paladin in me3 and increase the clip size to 3 instead of being a single shot pistol.
While they're at it it would be nice if the reload animation was faster.
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 5, 2017 23:50:40 GMT
I wouldn't mind seeing this more like the Paladin in me3 and increase the clip size to 3 instead of being a single shot pistol. While they're at it it would be nice if the reload animation was faster. I was thinking about that too. If you're gonna give me a single shot gun, it better be goddamn good (this is specially true for snipers). But honestly I don't get it about single shot pistols, put a few more rounds in the mag and the gun might be saved.
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Post by Liaras Stuffed Bra on Apr 6, 2017 0:12:49 GMT
Ultra Rare does not mean good. It never has. The most accurate, yet ignored comment you will ever read about this topic. In terms of weapon performance to rarity, we will never be pleased. Even though there are some weapons that need changes, personally, I like it this way (viable and unviable weapons at every rarity level) because it's the lesser of two evils. You don't need to play for thousands of hours or spend your savings to be effective. The alternative evil is to make common weapon performance generally poor and increase performance as you go up in rarity to UR. Then everyone will be complaining that they'll never ever have a decent weapon and that it's pay2win. Or every weapon could be amazing and viable. Then we'll only need one weapon in each category. That would be fun...
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 6, 2017 0:24:02 GMT
Or every weapon could be amazing and viable. Then we'll only need one weapon in each category. That would be fun... That doesn't make any sense. Even if all weapons were equally great, they'd still be different weapons with different characteristics and their own pros and cons, suitable for different characters and styles of play. I don't see how that'd somehow be less fun than the current situation where most weapons are thrash and only a handful are considered "viable".
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Post by Liaras Stuffed Bra on Apr 6, 2017 0:47:55 GMT
Or every weapon could be amazing and viable. Then we'll only need one weapon in each category. That would be fun... That doesn't make any sense. Even if all weapons were equally great, they'd still be different weapons with different characteristics and their own pros and cons, suitable for different characters and styles of play. I don't see how that'd somehow be less fun than the current situation where most weapons are thrash and only a handful are considered "viable". I meant that part to be a bit of a joke. The main complaint I've seen everywhere is that weapon A has low damage or weapon B has low dps. So if all weapons in each category have the same, or similar, damage then every weapon would perform the same and only be differentiable by its skin. What you said about different weapons having different characteristics for different play styles is interesting. It's pretty much what we have now. But as I said, the complaints seem to always revolve around damage and/or dps and rarely take into consideration styles of play or balance in power between rarity levels.
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 6, 2017 1:00:57 GMT
That doesn't make any sense. Even if all weapons were equally great, they'd still be different weapons with different characteristics and their own pros and cons, suitable for different characters and styles of play. I don't see how that'd somehow be less fun than the current situation where most weapons are thrash and only a handful are considered "viable". I meant that part to be a bit of a joke. The main complaint I've seen everywhere is that weapon A has low damage or weapon B has low dps. So if all weapons in each category have the same, or similar, damage then every weapon would perform the same and only be differentiable by its skin. What you said about different weapons having different characteristics for different play styles is interesting. It's pretty much what we have now. But as I said, the complaints seem to always revolve around damage and/or dps and rarely take into consideration styles of play or balance in power between rarity levels. Sorry if I missed the joke. The problem is that too many people genuinely think exactly like that. Poe's Law, and all that. What we have now is not what I'm suggesting. A key component is missing: balance. Yes, weapon balance is certainly subjective, and it can be hard to tell where the sweet spot between two very different weapons truly is, but we're not there yet. Not even close.
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Post by Liaras Stuffed Bra on Apr 6, 2017 1:11:37 GMT
I meant that part to be a bit of a joke. The main complaint I've seen everywhere is that weapon A has low damage or weapon B has low dps. So if all weapons in each category have the same, or similar, damage then every weapon would perform the same and only be differentiable by its skin. What you said about different weapons having different characteristics for different play styles is interesting. It's pretty much what we have now. But as I said, the complaints seem to always revolve around damage and/or dps and rarely take into consideration styles of play or balance in power between rarity levels. Sorry if I missed the joke. The problem is that too many people genuinely think exactly like that. Poe's Law, and all that. What we have now is not what I'm suggesting. A key component is missing: balance. Yes, weapon balance is certainly subjective, and it can be hard to tell where the sweet spot between two very different weapons truly is, but we're not there yet. Not even close. Yep, something needs to be done and hopefully will be done tomorrow to bring us a step closer. Can't wait to see the reaction.
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Post by zorinho20 on Apr 6, 2017 5:32:55 GMT
URs should have something special, mechanic that apart them from more common weapons. Javelin was great example- high single shot damage,wallhack and great penetration (ah those jokes). Also Reegar, but it should have been UR,not rare.
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Post by nastrodamus on Apr 6, 2017 6:12:13 GMT
I think BW and Talon are pretty dope UR's, but I didn't get a Vanquisher so I can't compare. Talon blows all other shotguns out of the water tough. Perfectly fine as main weapon, just as it was in ME3. I mean it's better than most (all? I don't have any URs) shotguns at lvl I. Besides that, the Kett UR shotgun is broken strong in SP compared to other ones, like claymore level damage with 2 shots in the clip, that one could also be worth noting. I'm at the other end, have the vanquisher but no bw. That right there is a big example of the weird balancing in mp. The kett "shotguns" are really hard to quantify as shotguns. the Dhan almost feels like a one shot venom/krysae hybrid. The ME:A equivalents just don't feel like the guns they are ment to replace. The Ushior and vanquisher have balancing in sp that should be in mp and true of every other weapon.
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Post by squidney2k1 on Apr 6, 2017 6:19:18 GMT
It's basically this game's version of the Executioner.
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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Apr 6, 2017 6:50:43 GMT
I think BW and Talon are pretty dope UR's, but I didn't get a Vanquisher so I can't compare. Talon blows all other shotguns out of the water tough. Perfectly fine as main weapon, just as it was in ME3. I mean it's better than most (all? I don't have any URs) shotguns at lvl I. Besides that, the Kett UR shotgun is broken strong in SP compared to other ones, like claymore level damage with 2 shots in the clip, that one could also be worth noting. I'm at the other end, have the vanquisher but no bw. That right there is a big example of the weird balancing in mp. The kett "shotguns" are really hard to quantify as shotguns. the Dhan almost feels like a one shot venom/krysae hybrid. The ME:A equivalents just don't feel like the guns they are ment to replace. The Ushior and vanquisher have balancing in sp that should be in mp and true of every other weapon. Also it seems to me that BW is stronger in SP, at least much stronger than Vanquisher (I tried it and it's pointless, it can't one shot mooks, it's just a better Viper) I didn't go comparing numbers but that's just my impressions?
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Post by hobocommand3r on Apr 6, 2017 7:35:39 GMT
I think BW and Talon are pretty dope UR's, but I didn't get a Vanquisher so I can't compare. Talon blows all other shotguns out of the water tough. Perfectly fine as main weapon, just as it was in ME3. I mean it's better than most (all? I don't have any URs) shotguns at lvl I. Besides that, the Kett UR shotgun is broken strong in SP compared to other ones, like claymore level damage with 2 shots in the clip, that one could also be worth noting. I'm at the other end, have the vanquisher but no bw. That right there is a big example of the weird balancing in mp. The kett "shotguns" are really hard to quantify as shotguns. the Dhan almost feels like a one shot venom/krysae hybrid. The ME:A equivalents just don't feel like the guns they are ment to replace. The Ushior and vanquisher have balancing in sp that should be in mp and true of every other weapon. I have a dhan 2 and I think it's only useable on classes with cloak or turbocharge. Sucks on anything else, the damage is poor. it has 2 in the mag but less damage per shot than the 4 shot vanquisher or 3 shot BW, and then on top of that it has travel time. Just no. The gun ir really weird especially if you're not on host. Wraith was som much better. Gun needs a damage boost and a much faster reload.
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