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Post by Arkhne on Aug 29, 2016 21:52:56 GMT
Claymore has a hell of a lot more OSK potential than the Talon. I have the Talon at X, and in almost every single situation, I'd prefer the Claymoar. With reload cancelling, Widow and Black Widow are almost identical fire rates (Widow being ever so slightly behind, with slightly more damage per shot), so no, it is not "miles" ahead. As to Raider/Reegar, your only arguement is bug exploitation? Are you serious? Talon Gi can solo Platinum in 17 minutes. No Claymore kit can do that. And while I love the Claymore, it's damage is overkill on most mook type enemies. Black Widow is MILES and MILES ahead of regular Widow. And it's simply not true that RC Widow can shoot as fast as BW. BW will empty it's 3 shot clip before you manage to fire 2 shots. With a BW and Phasic rounds I can kill 3 Centurions with body shots on Gold while you shoot 1, then reload, then scope in for another shot. BW is a contender for best sniper in the game vs the Javelin. I don't like the Reegar. I actually hate the Reegar and I almost never use it. I do like the Raider. Both can be total powerhouses. But Reegar has insane damage and strips shields like it's nothing. And it's super easy to use. No wonder n00bs love it and can't hit jack with a Raider. With these 2 it depends on the map and the kit. On some maps Raider will outdo the Reegar, on something like Glacier - Reegar may win. Maybe things are different on whatever platform you play on, or maybe the last two levels of Black Widow are exceptionally powerful, but even with Phasics III on the Drell Infiltrator, Black Widow VIII wont OSK with Body Shots on Gold(for me), let alone Platinum. Widow body shots kill basically everything on Gold with an Infiltrator. I keep trying the Black Widow every level, hoping its gotten better, but every time, I wish I'd taken the Widow. I also said that the Claymore has a higher OSK potential than the Talon, which it does. I did not, however, claim that it can Solo Platinum on the GI at the same speed as the Talon. The Claymore can OSK things the Talon takes an entire clip to drop. VS Cerberus Gold/Platinum, sure Talon is probably more effective overall, but I'd still prefer to use the Claymore.
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Aug 29, 2016 22:07:33 GMT
Are you serious? Talon Gi can solo Platinum in 17 minutes. No Claymore kit can do that. And while I love the Claymore, it's damage is overkill on most mook type enemies. Black Widow is MILES and MILES ahead of regular Widow. And it's simply not true that RC Widow can shoot as fast as BW. BW will empty it's 3 shot clip before you manage to fire 2 shots. With a BW and Phasic rounds I can kill 3 Centurions with body shots on Gold while you shoot 1, then reload, then scope in for another shot. BW is a contender for best sniper in the game vs the Javelin. I don't like the Reegar. I actually hate the Reegar and I almost never use it. I do like the Raider. Both can be total powerhouses. But Reegar has insane damage and strips shields like it's nothing. And it's super easy to use. No wonder n00bs love it and can't hit jack with a Raider. With these 2 it depends on the map and the kit. On some maps Raider will outdo the Reegar, on something like Glacier - Reegar may win. Maybe things are different on whatever platform you play on, or maybe the last two levels of Black Widow are exceptionally powerful, but even with Phasics III on the Drell Infiltrator, Black Widow VIII wont OSK with Body Shots on Gold(for me), let alone Platinum. Widow body shots kill basically everything on Gold with an Infiltrator. I keep trying the Black Widow every level, hoping its gotten better, but every time, I wish I'd taken the Widow. I also said that the Claymore has a higher OSK potential than the Talon, which it does. I did not, however, claim that it can Solo Platinum on the GI at the same speed as the Talon. The Claymore can OSK things the Talon takes an entire clip to drop. VS Cerberus Gold/Platinum, sure Talon is probably more effective overall, but I'd still prefer to use the Claymore. I dunno, but mine will kill a Centurion trough a wall on a Human Infiltrator and I don't even use the 25% extra damage barrel on my BW, because it makes it look ugly. BW also synchronizes with Cloak perfectly. You can get off 3 shots in Cloak's damage window, reload and be ready to Cloak and fire again, while with Widow - Cloak, fire one shot, reload and maybe get one off still in damage boost, but only if you quickscope. BW is also much more useful in CQC in smaller maps like Glacier or if when you're getting overwhelmed. You can force 3 enemies to dodge or back off or to simply kill them, before you gave to reload. Also you can pop a thermal pack and have 3 shots ready again instead of 1. It's also not as costly to miss with BW when your screen shakes, the enemy get's staggered or whatever may happen. You simply adjust your aim and have 2 shots to finish something off, instead of having a big empty stick in your hands. As for Claymore - it's certainly more powerful. But Talon is a better mook killer (especially Phantom killer) Talon will 1 shot most things with a headshot and again - it's not as costly to miss 1 or 2 shots in clip (and you will miss, like it or not - because husks, Nemesis, Phantoms, Goons are crazy and don't know what they are doing, they moon walk, change directions, flip around and so on.
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Post by Arkhne on Aug 29, 2016 22:17:05 GMT
I wont tell you what works for you - I'm not you, I simply don't know what is best for you.
All I know is what works for me. And in most situations, I will consistently do better with the extra stopping power of the single shot weapons, which also feels extremely satisfying. That feel when you OSK -> Reload Cancel -> OSK -> etc and keep the rythmn going is one of the best feelings in this game, and it has me addicted to the single shot weapons (Something that I thought would never happen).
This is why I have generally said that I "prefer" these weapons. The difference in performance (both on and off paper) is not large enough that I could feel comfortable saying that either is objectively better in all situations. Comparing say, the Lancer and the Shuriken, I could pretty comfortably say that the Lancer wins, and is objectively better, even at low levels. Otherwise, game knowledge plays the biggest part in weapon performance, and will quite easily close the gap between less effective weapons and the OP ones.
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Post by SalMasRac on Aug 29, 2016 22:44:04 GMT
you both need to L2Headshot
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Aug 29, 2016 23:03:30 GMT
I wont tell you what works for you - I'm not you, I simply don't know what is best for you. All I know is what works for me. And in most situations, I will consistently do better with the extra stopping power of the single shot weapons, which also feels extremely satisfying. That feel when you OSK -> Reload Cancel -> OSK -> etc and keep the rythmn going is one of the best feelings in this game, and it has me addicted to the single shot weapons (Something that I thought would never happen). This is why I have generally said that I "prefer" these weapons. The difference in performance (both on and off paper) is not large enough that I could feel comfortable saying that either is objectively better in all situations. Comparing say, the Lancer and the Shuriken, I could pretty comfortably say that the Lancer wins, and is objectively better, even at low levels. Otherwise, game knowledge plays the biggest part in weapon performance, and will quite easily close the gap between less effective weapons and the OP ones. All i'm stating is pros and cons of each weapon
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Post by SalMasRac on Aug 29, 2016 23:15:51 GMT
I prefer weapons that have several shots in the mag for a few reasons. Particularly, as was mentioned previously, that it's not as costly when you miss. And weird moving husks/aboms/etc can be difficult to hit.
With a multi-shot weapon, you could spray some fire at husk-types, which stops them for a second, and even prime them for a Fire Explosion in the meantime, as you roll backwards then hit your Detonator Power. Or you could spray a few rounds at Dragoons/Marauders to halt their advance, trigger their roll, then line up easy headshots as they stand up. And again with the Fire Explosion, toss your Proxy Mine or whatever have you at them as they are rolling, then headshot as they stand.
With a single-shot weapon, you can be stuck reloading (especially problematic if you get hit by something that either staggers you, or makes you just stand still and unresponsive to commands for a second), use a power (if you have one worth using and it isn't on cooldown), switch weapons (takes time you might not have), or use an Ops Pack and go down anyway, followed by a MediGel and Rage Rocket. That's hardly efficient.
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Aug 29, 2016 23:31:25 GMT
^ That. All that. All good points.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 0:05:36 GMT
The Valkyrie isn't the best gun, but you can make it work. As has already been said multiple times here, Turians make this gun work. I like to put it on the Turian Sentinel from time to time, works really well on Gold. I regularly alternate between the Hurricane, Phaeston and this gun on that kit. The continuous clicking becomes tiring very soon, though.
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Post by docsteely on Aug 30, 2016 0:46:02 GMT
Use Turians here's a super ancient and crappy quality video that sorta illustrates my point In conclusion, use Turians A 20 Headshots Wave 1? Nuff said.
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Post by Evil on Aug 30, 2016 2:32:55 GMT
Good gun once you've fixed its recoil and accuracy issues, but horrid off the shelf with every second bullet missing it's mark.
Note: fixing the issues doesn't actually require a turian, it's just the easiest method. The scope+stabilisation mod option works just as well at getting it to shooting straight, although I wouldn't recommend soloing with a scope.
Also, drill rounds are probably the best ammo choice, getting multihits on bosses outweighs the minor difference in armour damage reduction IIRC.
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Post by docsteely on Aug 30, 2016 3:08:18 GMT
I prefer weapons that have several shots in the mag for a few reasons. Particularly, as was mentioned previously, that it's not as costly when you miss. And weird moving husks/aboms/etc can be difficult to hit. With a multi-shot weapon, you could spray some fire at husk-types, which stops them for a second, and even prime them for a Fire Explosion in the meantime, as you roll backwards then hit your Detonator Power. Or you could spray a few rounds at Dragoons/Marauders to halt their advance, trigger their roll, then line up easy headshots as they stand up. And again with the Fire Explosion, toss your Proxy Mine or whatever have you at them as they are rolling, then headshot as they stand. With a single-shot weapon, you can be stuck reloading (especially problematic if you get hit by something that either staggers you, or makes you just stand still and unresponsive to commands for a second), use a power (if you have one worth using and it isn't on cooldown), switch weapons (takes time you might not have), or use an Ops Pack and go down anyway, followed by a MediGel and Rage Rocket. That's hardly efficient. Is that your opinion as player on both PC and XBOX? Because most of the disagreements before were between a PS3 player and a PC player. And I think you will agree that on PC it is much easier to get headshots than on consoles.
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Post by SalMasRac on Aug 30, 2016 3:11:34 GMT
I prefer weapons that have several shots in the mag for a few reasons. Particularly, as was mentioned previously, that it's not as costly when you miss. And weird moving husks/aboms/etc can be difficult to hit. With a multi-shot weapon, you could spray some fire at husk-types, which stops them for a second, and even prime them for a Fire Explosion in the meantime, as you roll backwards then hit your Detonator Power. Or you could spray a few rounds at Dragoons/Marauders to halt their advance, trigger their roll, then line up easy headshots as they stand up. And again with the Fire Explosion, toss your Proxy Mine or whatever have you at them as they are rolling, then headshot as they stand. With a single-shot weapon, you can be stuck reloading (especially problematic if you get hit by something that either staggers you, or makes you just stand still and unresponsive to commands for a second), use a power (if you have one worth using and it isn't on cooldown), switch weapons (takes time you might not have), or use an Ops Pack and go down anyway, followed by a MediGel and Rage Rocket. That's hardly efficient. Is that your opinion as player on both PC and XBOX? Because most of the disagreements before were between a PS3 player and a PC player. And I think you will agree that on PC it is much easier to get headshots than on consoles. Yes, as spraying fire at advancing melee enemies to prime them with fire ammo and proc a roll animation to detonate as they are recovering requires no headshot skill whatsoever. The headshot at the end isn't even necessary, a bodyshot at that point will do just as well.
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Post by docsteely on Aug 30, 2016 3:16:53 GMT
Is that your opinion as player on both PC and XBOX? Because most of the disagreements before were between a PS3 player and a PC player. And I think you will agree that on PC it is much easier to get headshots than on consoles. Yes, as spraying fire at advancing melee enemies to prime them with fire ammo and proc a roll animation to detonate as they are recovering requires no headshot skill whatsoever. The headshot at the end isn't even necessary, a bodyshot at that point will do just as well. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the answer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 15:40:43 GMT
1) Put it on the Quarian Marksman 2) Get headshots 3) ?????? 4) Profit
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Aug 30, 2016 15:47:17 GMT
1) Put it on the Quarian Marksman 2) Get headshots 3) ?????? 4) Profit 1. Put it on a Turian Soldier who has extra stability and damage 2. Get even more headshots 3. ?????? 4. Let's get LAID!.....I mean PAID!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 15:54:30 GMT
1) Put it on the Quarian Marksman 2) Get headshots 3) ?????? 4) Profit 1. Put it on a Turian Soldier who has automatic recoil control for baddies and a shittier debuff 2. Miss all your shots despite stability because you're still bad at the game anyway 3. Get penetrated by a chubby chasing fantum because you're a dodgeless fat scrub. 4. Watch glorious Quarksman carry the wave FTFY
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Aug 30, 2016 15:57:47 GMT
1. Put it on a Turian Soldier who has automatic recoil control for baddies and a shittier debuff 2. Miss all your shots despite stability because you're still bad at the game anyway 3. Get penetrated by a chubby chasing fantum because you're a dodgeless fat scrub. 4. Watch glorious Quarksman carry the wave FTFY I admit, that was pretty funny, but TSol has Concussive Shot to drive those Fantums away and his debuff is not shittier, because it goes through walls, does actual damage and can debuff multiple enemies in 1 hit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 16:57:11 GMT
I admit, that was pretty funny, but TSol has Concussive Shot to drive those Fantums away and his debuff is not shittier, because it goes through walls, does actual damage and can debuff multiple enemies in 1 hit. And I didn't even mention how fat lolturian stability is always broken anyway, so have fun not even getting any advantage from your morbid obesity except maybe handicapped skycar parking. CS is lol. I'd literally rather have Sabotage, as at least I might use it once or twice a game vs a turret or prime that's in the way (as opposed to never because I'm not playing some garbage cryo soldier or whatever). Tacticool Scan goes through walls as well (it even sees through them), and it also does damage (enough to kill swarmers, which is all you need). With Valkyrie, using Tsol's PM on multiple enemies is pretty much pointless because you'll have 4 seconds of no MM (thus 50% less deeps, even less because un MMed Valkyrie has horrible bloom and misses everywhere, and then even less for no headshot bonus) and then only 4 more seconds of debuff. Actually, it's pretty useless on bosses with this weapon for the same reason, in that any 20% gain you make in the last 4 seconds it's active is cancelled out (and then some) by firing 50% slower for the first 4. Tacticool scan by contrast will decrease boss TTK as with most weapons, exceptions being something retard heavy like the shitfire that tanks the cooldown far past the animation. PM's really only useable as an individual debuff with very lightweight weapons. Great power if you wanna help debuff and serve your rightful role as a support class for a superior character like Quarksman, tho in that case I'd suggest you play the much better Volus Engineer.
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Aug 30, 2016 17:04:12 GMT
I admit, that was pretty funny, but TSol has Concussive Shot to drive those Fantums away and his debuff is not shittier, because it goes through walls, does actual damage and can debuff multiple enemies in 1 hit. And I didn't even mention how fat lolturian stability is always broken anyway, so have fun not even getting any advantage from your morbid obesity except maybe handicapped skycar parking. CS is lol. I'd literally rather have Sabotage, as at least I might use it once or twice a game vs a turret or prime that's in the way (as opposed to never because I'm not playing some garbage cryo soldier or whatever). Tacticool Scan goes through walls as well (it even sees through them), and it also does damage (enough to kill swarmers, which is all you need). With Valkyrie, using Tsol's PM on multiple enemies is pretty much pointless because you'll have 4 seconds of no MM (thus 50% less deeps, even less because un MMed Valkyrie has horrible bloom and misses everywhere, and then even less for no headshot bonus) and then only 4 more seconds of debuff. Actually, it's pretty useless on bosses with this weapon for the same reason, in that any 20% gain you make in the last 4 seconds it's active is cancelled out (and then some) by firing 50% slower for the first 4. Tacticool scan by contrast will decrease boss TTK as with most weapons, exceptions being something retard heavy like the shitfire that tanks the cooldown far past the animation. PM's really only useable as an individual debuff with very lightweight weapons. Great power if you wanna help debuff and serve your rightful role as a support class for a superior character like Quarksman, tho in that case I'd suggest you play the much better Volus Engineer. QMR is that you? Tactical Scan can only debuff one enemy at a time and there's no point in using it on mooks. While PM is useful for anything and can kill pesky husks and it even detonates your own and teammate ammo powers. It can also proc Phantom bubbles or force people to dodge for easy headshots. Ksssshhk I agree on Volus Engineer though. Kssshhk a true master race if I say so myself. Much better than Turians OR Quarians
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Post by GruntKitterhand on Aug 31, 2016 11:50:40 GMT
Guess what my last two UR upgrades have been? I swear to God that store hates me.
As for the lively Quarian v Turian debate, I can vouch for Xen's capabilities, but for the less skilled among us the TSol would still be the preferred option. Quarksman, especially with the Valkyrie is for people (and Admirals) who no longer need to Git Gud, imho.
A tangential word or two in defence of Concussive Shot though - I've played a TSol with an Executioner Pistol and had an absolutely great time managing to use all three of his powers to good effect. You can mow through mooks reload-cancelling with CS in a way I find much more useful than Marksman, on occasions anyway. I know you can reload cancel with MM as well, obviously, but I sometimes find myself exposed after the second shot has gone and I have no other powers at my disposal and I'm too Fat to dodge.
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Post by Arkhne on Aug 31, 2016 13:09:12 GMT
Guess what my last two UR upgrades have been? I swear to God that store hates me. Don't hate me, but my last two was Hurricane, which was sorely needed. In the last 3 days or so, I have gone from Hurricane 3, to Hurricane 6. It was really irking me that my wife, with a fraction of my hours, had Hurricane and Spitfire at higher levels than I. Her Spitfire is still about 5 levels higher, fml. Well, I pretty much have most of my disliked URs maxed already, so I guess I only have good stuff left? I maxed the Valkyrie some time ago, which means it doesn't troll me as hard anymore, but I know how you feel, I wanted my pack refunded, and consumables to replace all my Valkyrie upgrades.
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