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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 5, 2017 2:16:37 GMT
You still don't get it... that's not what people have a problem with. Back when ME1 came out, they did break new ground in terms of storytelling in RPGs... at least in the west. Same in DAO, they took the classic Infinity Engine RPG formular and made it more cinematic. Every new game in both series tried something new... ME2 did the episodic approach of interconnected character stories, DA2 did the large time scale - limited location approach, DAI brought the open world into the mix... and MEA? Yea, that took a tiny part from most of the other games and went back to ME1... Episodic approach? Large time scale - limited location? Cinematic? What? You think this was new stuff when it was out? Or they hadn't done it before? Seriously, what in the fuck? What part of sticking to their formula didn't you understand? What part of THEY tried it did YOU not get? Of course it had been done before, and better, and of course the base formula of BW games was always the same, that's why they started to fail as they lost the talent that made it work in the past... it's not that the old games had been so much more creative then MEA, they just did make them better. Not Shakespeare better, but still better.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 5, 2017 2:17:26 GMT
I'll never quite understand why Saren is so revered as a villain. He's basically the original marauder shields.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Apr 5, 2017 2:18:42 GMT
Episodic approach? Large time scale - limited location? Cinematic? What? You think this was new stuff when it was out? Or they hadn't done it before? Seriously, what in the fuck? What part of sticking to their formula didn't you understand? What part of THEY tried it did YOU not get? Of course it had been done before, and better, and of course the base formula of BW games was always the same, that's why they started to fail as they lost the talent that made it work in the past... it's not that the old games had been so much more creative then MEA, they just did make them better. Not Shakespeare better, but still better. Did you actually bother reading my reply that wasn't even directed towards you? Goddammit. I'm not bothering with you for now, sleep is more productive in comparison. Leave a message, I will reply later.
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Uncle Cyan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 5, 2017 2:18:49 GMT
No apology? The game is broken at launch for me on the PS4, just like Inquisition for the PC two years ago. To the bargain bin you go Bioware. You might make games that appeal to pew-pew (Press "A" and something awesome will happen...) fans who like amateur-hour writing and no polishing on voice acting. I admit, I was stupid buying a Bioware game hoping the magic that they found in Origins and in the Normandy would pass onto an entirely new generation of writers and designers. Bioware... you're just a cheap and poorly-executed copy of what you were. Stop calling yourself Bioware. DICEware! Anyone wearing a Bioware badge is now just a pretender. Good luck in the real world because thanks to your managers, leads and EA-meddling, you're not special anymore. Well, I said it two years ago if the trend continues... the IPs will end up in someone else's hand and who knows? It might end up with someone who actually loves the franchise instead of treating it as a burden. Mediocrity is the new high, huh? The game is much better than Mass Effect 3 which was basically Gears Effect 3 that tried to be serious and epic and was instead an awkward, boring mess with hardly any replay value. MEA needs polish but the story and characters are an improvement and refreshing. The writing hits a few lows for all the highs, but nothing to warrant your protest. I recently tried replaying ME3 and the voice acting is so robotic. Basically "We'll Bang, Ok?" type bad. The story itself in MEA has pacing issues at times but the religious themes and Indiana Jones Nazi dominance/quest for the Holy Grail in space kicked ass (if you have a brain and can analyze the story and all its side content beyond face value). If you're still around registered on the forums as a so called "fan", and just now deciding to leave after a hissy fit now instead of during ME3, I question your thought process. Otherwise, I imagine you will be here posting again when the next dlc or game comes out and your thread has no purpose. You bet I will... just for you. However, let's make it clear: I want Bioware to succeed. They hold the two franchises I love. I want them to be better, smarter and successful than the rest. I guess that's too much to hope for. There is a point to this thread... mine. That's what these forums are all about.
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Post by joglee on Apr 5, 2017 2:18:50 GMT
This is classic Bioware, actually. I just find it weird. People talk about ME 1/ DA O with a lot of respect and awe...as if they are the ultimate pinnacle of gaming that can never really ever be surprassed unless you are talking the Witcher 3. And while ME 1 especially did have its special moments....both games were also clunky messes which made a lot of questionable story and character decisions. Liara's fawning over Shepard for instance? Need I say more...wait I forgot apparently most people like being slobbered over. PS3 users never got to experience ME1, they have no idea this is closer to ME1 than any other in the series. All playstation users got was a interactive comic for the first game.
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 5, 2017 2:22:40 GMT
What part of THEY tried it did YOU not get? Of course it had been done before, and better, and of course the base formula of BW games was always the same, that's why they started to fail as they lost the talent that made it work in the past... it's not that the old games had been so much more creative then MEA, they just did make them better. Not Shakespeare better, but still better. Did you actually bother reading my reply that wasn't even directed towards you? Goddammit. I'm not bothering with you for now, sleep is more productive in comparison. Leave a message, I will reply later. Aha, then learn how to use the quote function... seriously. G'night and don't bother...
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 5, 2017 2:28:30 GMT
...but at least they did work as games and the writing was consistent. Also: The games industry, the way story is told in games specifically, has changed EXTREMELY since the days of ME1 and DAO. Witcher 3 is larded like that because it does represent much of that change/evolution. To be honest I think ME1 and DA:O also kind of get away with a few things because they were the introduction to the setting. Origins has a painfully cliche main storyline, but you still get lost in the world building and characters they have. Mass Effect 1's story makes very little sense when you think about it but again, you're lost in the world building and characters. With Andromeda there was very little background world building other than some Angara lore and a little bit on the Kett and Remnant. The Milky Way species just got to Andromeda and thus have no backstory to explore that we don't already know, so the entire game's writing is now on the shoulders of the main plot which I don't think main plot has ever really been BioWare's strongest suit. I also feel like villains in particular are getting weaker. Saren or Loghain are just so much better than the Archon or Corypheus. The Archon in particular feels like he has virtually no personality. I never had a moment where I want "Okay, that mother fucker is going to be beaten to death with his own spine". It's not only villains... world building, characters,... that always have been BW's strong suits. Their stories and game systems never have been that great, but people didn't love their games for those things. That's why I said from the start: I don't care how good your combat system is now, I don't play BW games for that...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 2:29:02 GMT
I'll never quite understand why Saren is so revered as a villain. He's basically the original marauder shields. Because Saren was Shepard's equal in a sense. He was competent, charismatic and funny in his own way, even when taunting you: "Are we allowing dreams into evidence now? How can I defend my innocence against this kind of testimony?" "Captain Anderson, you always seem to be involved when humanity makes false charges against me. And this must be your protege..." "Shift the blame to cover your own failures, just like Captain Anderson, he's taught you well." - Can't deny that they were great deliveries by Fred Tatasciore, of course. He made the character great. Saren was also the Council's best spectre before you came along, and was not afraid to get his own hands dirty to get results. Not a cliche like what the Illusive Man became in ME3 (he was still good in ME2, though, even if trying too hard to be cool), but he spents ME3 hiding and smoking while still taunting you with the most horrible lines: "Shepard, you're out of your depth." "Shepard, your vision is pathetically limited." "Once again, you fail to recognize the truth. Cerberus is this and not that." Even though you keep ruining his plans through the entire game. And his organization has a history of incompetence to the point of hilarity. Even Hackett mentions this in one of his lines. Or the Archon now: "I won't explain what you can't understand." "Your defiance is naive and reckless. This day marks the beginning of your greatness." WTH? Those lines are so cliche and never make characters look good. Why does everyone hate Kai Leng? Because it's all he did, taunt: he calls you a coward and runs away in every single encounter. Why was Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2 so well received? He was, most of the time, the funniest character in the game and not a walking brick of bad cliche lines. He always thought he was the hero: "Damn Bandits! Stop screwing with my stuff!" "Sometimes I envy you bandits, you're so...unburdened with things like intelligence, culture, morality, honor, ambition, good looks... I could go on, but I won't... but I could..."
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 5, 2017 2:29:34 GMT
It's funny because people act like it is a bad game but it's not. I may like the trilogy more but I am still enjoying the hell out of MEA. MEA is still good the trilogy was just epic. It's always hard to follow up epic.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Apr 5, 2017 2:30:01 GMT
...but at least they did work as games and the writing was consistent. Also: The games industry, the way story is told in games specifically, has changed EXTREMELY since the days of ME1 and DAO. Witcher 3 is larded like that because it does represent much of that change/evolution. To be honest I think ME1 and DA:O also kind of get away with a few things because they were the introduction to the setting. Origins has a painfully cliche main storyline, but you still get lost in the world building and characters they have. Mass Effect 1's story makes very little sense when you think about it but again, you're lost in the world building and characters. With Andromeda there was very little background world building other than some Angara lore and a little bit on the Kett and Remnant. The Milky Way species just got to Andromeda and thus have no backstory to explore that we don't already know, so the entire game's writing is now on the shoulders of the main plot which I don't think main plot has ever really been BioWare's strongest suit. I also feel like villains in particular are getting weaker. Saren or Loghain are just so much better than the Archon or Corypheus. The Archon in particular feels like he has virtually no personality. I never had a moment where I want "Okay, that mother fucker is going to be beaten to death with his own spine". I was expecting for a space Arishok tbh...
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Post by suikoden on Apr 5, 2017 2:31:28 GMT
LoL - how old are you? This is classic Bioware: Baldur's Gate 1+2 Icewind Dale 1+2 KOTOR Mass Effect 1-3 Dragon Age Origins Jade Empire NWN This is new Bioware: DA2 ME:A DA:I Less of the turd you are, that I do know. And as usual, you fail to understand what anyone says. Gimme a break kiddo. My god... let's analyze what you just shat out from your fingers. "Less of the turd you are, that I do know" - What does this even mean? I'm less of a turd than you? Is this like, some sort of spin on the Happy Gilmore "I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast?" Because that's what I'm getting from it. Annnnnd what else do you offer? "And as usual, you fail to understand what anyone says. Gimme a break kiddo." - Actually, I think I get exactly what the creator of this thread is trying to get at, hence my post. At this point I can only question whether or not you've yet hit puberty.
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Post by alihou on Apr 5, 2017 2:31:41 GMT
No apology? The game is broken at launch for me on the PS4, just like Inquisition for the PC two years ago. To the bargain bin you go Bioware. You might make games that appeal to pew-pew (Press "A" and something awesome will happen...) fans who like amateur-hour writing and no polishing on voice acting. I admit, I was stupid buying a Bioware game hoping the magic that they found in Origins and in the Normandy would pass onto an entirely new generation of writers and designers. Bioware... you're just a cheap and poorly-executed copy of what you were. Stop calling yourself Bioware. DICEware! Anyone wearing a Bioware badge is now just a pretender. Good luck in the real world because thanks to your managers, leads and EA-meddling, you're not special anymore. Well, I said it two years ago if the trend continues... the IPs will end up in someone else's hand and who knows? It might end up with someone who actually loves the franchise instead of treating it as a burden. Mediocrity is the new high, huh? I'll tell you this, it's the last time i'm ever preordering a Bioware game. I am going to see what the public perception is before making my decision. Some people are actually thankful for patches like Bioware is doing them a favor. Too many people supporting mediocrity and bad business practices. This game is broken on launch for me, there's no way this passed QA. Minor bugs I can accept because QA might've missed something, but this release has been straight up bad and honestly their product suffered critically because of it.
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Post by Xerxes52 on Apr 5, 2017 2:34:59 GMT
Sun Li is still my favorite Bioware villain honestly. After him it would be the Arishok.
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 5, 2017 2:35:21 GMT
No apology? The game is broken at launch for me on the PS4, just like Inquisition for the PC two years ago. To the bargain bin you go Bioware. You might make games that appeal to pew-pew (Press "A" and something awesome will happen...) fans who like amateur-hour writing and no polishing on voice acting. I admit, I was stupid buying a Bioware game hoping the magic that they found in Origins and in the Normandy would pass onto an entirely new generation of writers and designers. Bioware... you're just a cheap and poorly-executed copy of what you were. Stop calling yourself Bioware. DICEware! Anyone wearing a Bioware badge is now just a pretender. Good luck in the real world because thanks to your managers, leads and EA-meddling, you're not special anymore. Well, I said it two years ago if the trend continues... the IPs will end up in someone else's hand and who knows? It might end up with someone who actually loves the franchise instead of treating it as a burden. Mediocrity is the new high, huh? I'll tell you this, it's the last time i'm ever preordering a Bioware game. I am going to see what the public perception is before making my decision. Some people are actually thankful for patches like Bioware is doing them a favor. Too many people supporting mediocrity and bad business practices. This game is broken on launch for me, there's no way this passed QA. Minor bugs I can accept because QA might've missed something, but this release has been straight up bad and honestly their product suffered critically because of it. Indeed, it sometimes seams like, for every Witcher 3 we get 100 MEA's these days... and this will get worse still if people keep buying into/defending that crap. There has to be a point where it has to end... and it's long overdue.
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Post by kingmandu on Apr 5, 2017 2:36:02 GMT
The internet is an amazing and wonderful too but then we get topics like what the op posted. Everyone's special nowadays and just has to let the world know their every thought. Disgusting.
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 5, 2017 2:53:12 GMT
The internet is an amazing and wonderful too but then we get topics like what the op posted. Everyone's special nowadays and just has to let the world know their every thought. Disgusting. So censor me. I don't jump on people's threads that praise the game for stuff I don't care about. I'm sorry your feelings are hurt. Let's find you a cupcake.
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Post by raikas on Apr 5, 2017 2:57:52 GMT
I know, it's hyperbole, but how far should fandom go? How lenient can one be with a company that disappoints their customers constantly? How lenient with what? There are certainly people who stopped buying their games at launch (or at full price, or at all) after ME3 or DA2 anything that wasn't Baldur's Gate, or whichever other past game disappointed them, and I'm sure people will continue to do so. Whether that ultimately hurts their bottom line will depend on what the long-term opinions end up being, which includes the opinions of people who may end up picking the game up once it's on sale, which will presumably be once the most egregious issues have been patched. "Fandom" is such a meaningless term - there are people here who play primarily for MP, people who play for the action elements, for the narrative elements, and for the whole package. Game-breaking bugs mess with everyone's game, but since some issues will only hit some people there's never going to be a unanimous feeling that the entirety of "the fandom" is going to agree on. If you hated this game and think the franchise is irredeemable, you probably shouldn't buy future products in the franchise. The idea of showing a developer leniency is silly - they're not your friend, they're producing a product. But at the same time if other people keep buying the stuff, maybe they just aren't hit by the same issues, so why assume that they're just being lenient?
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 5, 2017 3:04:50 GMT
The game is much better than Mass Effect 3 which was basically Gears Effect 3 that tried to be serious and epic and was instead an awkward, boring mess with hardly any replay value. MEA needs polish but the story and characters are an improvement and refreshing. The writing hits a few lows for all the highs, but nothing to warrant your protest. I recently tried replaying ME3 and the voice acting is so robotic. Basically "We'll Bang, Ok?" type bad. The story itself in MEA has pacing issues at times but the religious themes and Indiana Jones Nazi dominance/quest for the Holy Grail in space kicked ass (if you have a brain and can analyze the story and all its side content beyond face value). If you're still around registered on the forums as a so called "fan", and just now deciding to leave after a hissy fit now instead of during ME3, I question your thought process. Otherwise, I imagine you will be here posting again when the next dlc or game comes out and your thread has no purpose. You bet I will... just for you. However, let's make it clear: I want Bioware to succeed. They hold the two franchises I love. I want them to be better, smarter and successful than the rest. I guess that's too much to hope for. There is a point to this thread... mine. That's what these forums are all about. Good! And I'm really just giving ya hard time and fucking around. I appreciate any negativity as much as praise. I usually just write what comes to mind at the time and how I initially perceive a post. Sometimes I just come across as a dick
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Post by malgus on Apr 5, 2017 3:06:28 GMT
I just find it weird. People talk about ME 1/ DA O with a lot of respect and awe...as if they are the ultimate pinnacle of gaming that can never really ever be surprassed unless you are talking the Witcher 3. And while ME 1 especially did have its special moments....both games were also clunky messes which made a lot of questionable story and character decisions. Liara's fawning over Shepard for instance? Need I say more...wait I forgot apparently most people like being slobbered over. PS3 users never got to experience ME1, they have no idea this is closer to ME1 than any other in the series. All playstation users got was a interactive comic for the first game. The first mass effect is available on ps3 since 2012.
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 5, 2017 3:07:16 GMT
You bet I will... just for you. However, let's make it clear: I want Bioware to succeed. They hold the two franchises I love. I want them to be better, smarter and successful than the rest. I guess that's too much to hope for. There is a point to this thread... mine. That's what these forums are all about. Good! And I'm really just giving ya hard time and fucking around. I appreciate any negativity as much as praise. I usually just write what comes to mind at the time and how I initially perceive a post. Sometimes I just come across as a dick Thanks.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 5, 2017 3:20:01 GMT
This is classic Bioware, actually. LoL - how old are you? This is classic Bioware: Baldur's Gate 1+2 Icewind Dale 1+2 KOTOR Mass Effect 1-3 Dragon Age Origins Jade Empire NWN This is new Bioware: DA2 ME:A DA:I I'm not sure that list proves what you think it does. The NWN OC was awful, Jade Empire was a well-intentioned misfire, and Bio didn't even make the IWD games. You sure you want to put ME2 and ME3 in the old category? Not only do they mess up your old-new distinction because of the timing, but they used to be Exhibits A and B when we were discussing Bio's sad decline. But since NWN and Jade Empire were spoken of that way in earlier years, I guess it makes sense. In a few years, no doubt I'll be seeing lists like this with ME:A in the "old Bioware" category.
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 5, 2017 3:20:46 GMT
Good! And I'm really just giving ya hard time and fucking around. I appreciate any negativity as much as praise. I usually just write what comes to mind at the time and how I initially perceive a post. Sometimes I just come across as a dick Thanks. No worries! Besides the fact that you don't like the writing, the easily fixable bugs and facial animations, what do you not like about the mechanics? Are you wanting it to be streamlined and linear again or do you want them to perfect crafting a massive RPG with the freedom to explore space/planets? I enjoyed ME1 the most in the OT because of the sense of exploration which is why I enjoy MEA. I also really enjoy playing destiny so I really like how the combat basically feels like 3rd person destiny. I love the tempest design and the Nomad although I wish there was a small gun on the Nomad to shoot at drop ships or enemy land vehicles. Nothing too powerful but something to diversify the gameplay and give us the option to also fight enemy vehicles while on foot much like the mechs. I enjoy most of the writing and characters playing as default Scott because he reminds me of the Chris Pine's James Kirk in Star Trek and the story (which seems pretty generic and typical from the surface) actually has some deep themes and complexities to it. The game isn't the second coming of Christ but I would say it's not really mediocre either. I do wish it was more polished but it has not ruined the experience
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,515 Likes: 2,604
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Uncle Cyan
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Dang it.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 5, 2017 3:29:32 GMT
No worries! Besides the fact that you don't like the writing, the easily fixable bugs and facial animations, what do you not like about the mechanics? Are you wanting it to be streamlined and linear again or do you want them to perfect crafting a massive RPG with the freedom to explore space/planets? I enjoyed ME1 the most in the OT because of the sense of exploration which is why I enjoy MEA. I also really enjoy playing destiny so I really like how the combat basically feels like 3rd person destiny. I love the tempest design and the Nomad although I wish there was a small gun on the Nomad to shoot at drop ships or enemy land vehicles. Nothing too powerful but something to diversify the gameplay and give us the option to also fight enemy vehicles while on foot much like the mechs. I enjoy most of the writing and characters playing as default Scott because he reminds me of the Chris Pine's James Kirk in Star Trek and the story (which seems pretty generic and typical from the surface) actually has some deep themes and complexities to it. The game isn't the second coming of Christ but I would say it's not really mediocre either. I do wish it was more polished but it has ruined the experience I tried playing on the PS4, but I had two saves ruined because of the missing ground textures and then throw in all the other issues... The biggest issue is the lack of cohesion and horrible gameflow. I got bored with Inquisition. I marveled at the art, but I felt like it was less about being the Inquisitor and more like being a single player in a big MMO environment. Side quests are seemingly needless. Your choices don't really matter anyway in the end. It's no longer a pick-your-path adventure. It's more like Fallout 3, New Vegas and 4 without the modding community. Andromeda offered a fresh slate and they reused the same premise. Too many AAA titles are offering more of the same.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 5, 2017 3:35:53 GMT
I tried playing on the PS4, but I had two saves ruined because of the missing ground textures and then throw in all the other issues... The biggest issue is the lack of cohesion and horrible gameflow. I got bored with Inquisition. I marveled at the art, but I felt like it was less about being the Inquisitor and more like being a single player in a big MMO environment. Side quests are seemingly needless. Your choices don't really matter anyway in the end. It's no longer a pick-your-path adventure. It's more like Fallout 3, New Vegas and 4 without the modding community. Andromeda offered a fresh slate and they reused the same premise. Too many AAA titles are offering more of the same. Why doesn't New Vegas count as a pick-your-path adventure?
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Post by Lorn on Apr 5, 2017 3:41:22 GMT
Is anyoen gonna bring up the fact that this isnt bioware prime? Yea, just because it is a different studio doesn't mean we should consider this a BioWare game! Except it still has the BioWare name on It, and they still espouse the same goals as "BioWare Prime" so why should they be held to a lesser standard exactly?
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