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Post by Adhin on Aug 30, 2016 16:32:16 GMT
I'd like to see them explain how humanity could get to Andromeda and the Reapers, which are millions of years more advanced, cannot. In a way that's not totally contrived. Two things, one Reapers are only concerned with the Milky Way. If they cared about other Galaxies they would deal with them. They can travel twice as fast as the best ships in ME and if the trip takes like 600-800 years for us it'll take half that for them which is a rather small drop in there 50k bucket. So the Reapers, frankly, don't give a flying fuck. Not about can't, it's not impossible for them, they simply don't care about other galaxies. Also why do people keep wording it like it's all humanity? This isn't Humanities little secret project. It's Council races, a joint operation/group/ship building. Hell at this point they've dropped multiple hints (and practically said it outright) that the ARK project is even public knowledge. Best I can reason out the 'reason' for the project is the Reapers, secretly. Kinda a backup plan. But Publicly it's because Science, because we can, because it's difficult and we as a collective species want to try that. They're ultimately recruited from the public (or at least publicly recruiting from military and other organizations. As an aside before anyone reads this and goes Ahh but but what about Shepard, he/she didn't constantly mention it! - who cares? Why the fuck would that ever have any meaning what so ever on the existence of the project? Theres plenty of downtime between games, plenty of moments where he could of learned about it and be like 'well thats one backup plan I guess' and whatever. So tired of the if shepard doesn't somehow have knowledge of it (or acknowledge it), it can't happen crazy thinking. Erm, anyway, definitely want explanations for stuff in game. More detail and all that. REALLY hope it's not entirely just left up to the books. That always creates a some what disjointed feeling in stories.
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Post by Vortex13 on Aug 30, 2016 16:37:02 GMT
Agree wholeheartedly with the bolded. Having our protagonist galavanting from one side of the Milky Way to the other, only made everything seem small; to the point that your average player was saying that we'd already seen everything there was to see in our home galaxy despite less than 1% of it actually being explored. I've said it on the old BSN, and I'll say it here: We need a setting that is scaled similar to the Traveller universe. travellermap.comTake a look at the map for that game. Zoom all the way in, and all the way out. That's how BioWare should approach the scale of things in Andromeda and any of it's sequels. What we need is an actual three-dimensional galaxy map. The scale of a galaxy cannot be appreciated in two dimensions. True. But I would much prefer the sense of scale to be better represented, before we move on to capturing the z axis.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 30, 2016 16:41:21 GMT
I'd like to see them explain how humanity could get to Andromeda and the Reapers, which are millions of years more advanced, cannot. In a way that's not totally contrived. Two things, one Reapers are only concerned with the Milky Way. If they cared about other Galaxies they would deal with them. They can travel twice as fast as the best ships in ME and if the trip takes like 600-800 years for us it'll take half that for them which is a rather small drop in there 50k bucket. So the Reapers, frankly, don't give a flying fuck. Not about can't, it's not impossible for them, they simply don't care about other galaxies. Also why do people keep wording it like it's all humanity? This isn't Humanities little secret project. It's Council races, a joint operation/group/ship building. Hell at this point they've dropped multiple hints (and practically said it outright) that the ARK project is even public knowledge. Best I can reason out the 'reason' for the project is the Reapers, secretly. Kinda a backup plan. But Publicly it's because Science, because we can, because it's difficult and we as a collective species want to try that. They're ultimately recruited from the public (or at least publicly recruiting from military and other organizations. As an aside before anyone reads this and goes Ahh but but what about Shepard, he/she didn't constantly mention it! - who cares? Why the fuck would that ever have any meaning what so ever on the existence of the project? Theres plenty of downtime between games, plenty of moments where he could of learned about it and be like 'well thats one backup plan I guess' and whatever. So tired of the if shepard doesn't somehow have knowledge of it (or acknowledge it), it can't happen crazy thinking. Erm, anyway, definitely want explanations for stuff in game. More detail and all that. REALLY hope it's not entirely just left up to the books. That always creates a some what disjointed feeling in stories. I used "humanity" because Ryder is going to be human. Not because this is a human supersecret project. So yes, it is multiple races pooling resources. But it's not like any of them are already intergalactic travelers yet. They are mostly on par with each other tech-wise. And nowhere does it ever say the Reapers are only concerned with the Milky Way. To the contrary, the Reapers are concerned with preserving life, with no qualifiers. If they're interested in sweeping up galactic civilizations in one galaxy to "preserve" them, why stop at one? Another thing: Static discharge of an eezo core should kill the crew and slag the ship after running for 2-3 days. How they gonna make one run constantly for several hundred years?
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Post by Vortex13 on Aug 30, 2016 16:45:44 GMT
In regards to the the method of traveling to Andromeda, I've personally always been a fan of the species of the galaxy uniting to create their own version of a Stellar Engine, using existing tech. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_engineWhile trying to move an entire main sequence star and its corresponding solar system would be out of the question, something smaller, like say a brown dwarf, or 'hot' Jupiter would fit the bill nicely. The benefit of using the stellar engine lies in the fact that it is self sustaining; the host star itself providing the thrust. Plus, as an added bonus the system of the star in question will be dragged along with it; which depending on the type of planetary bodies present will mean the Andromeda colonists will be carrying along their own living space and/or fuel source. Clearly, a system rich in ezzo would be the best candidate, like something with a (relatively) small asteroid belt orbiting the star. That will provide the fuel necessary for the maintaining of the mass effect fields, as well as being a perfect place to discharge any static build up and providing ample living space for the colonists. Now the obvious question would be in how the galaxy is going to move a brown dwarf; which despite it's small relative size is still a massive stellar body. The answer of course is the use of mass effect fields, large, mega-industrial sized ones. Now where is the galaxy going to field something that powerful? Easy, with the use of several generators not unlike the ones the Turians used to provide the entire moon of Merene (sp?) with a gravitational field strong enough to hold an earth-like gravity and atmosphere across it's entire surface. Get fifteen to twenty of these generators in position around a target brown dwarf and you would be able to substantially reduce the star's mass, but not it's solar output. All of this combined will mean that the system in question would be able to get 'up to speed' in a reliable time frame, and seeing as how the use of a stellar engine is more or less unlimited in terms of acceleration; due to a constant thrust being applied by the star's own radiation output; would mean that this 'vessel' could reach Andromeda in roughly the same amount of time as it would with BioWare's current method, but wouldn't be relying on the creation of hereto unknown technological advancement. Also, it would provide the colonists a ready built home system to operate out of once they reach their destination. Plus, how much cooler would it be to pull up to Andromeda driving a freaking STAR, than some measly little ark ship?
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Post by Adhin on Aug 30, 2016 17:20:27 GMT
I used "humanity" because Ryder is going to be human. Not because this is a human supersecret project. So yes, it is multiple races pooling resources. But it's not like any of them are already intergalactic travelers yet. They are mostly on par with each other tech-wise. And nowhere does it ever say the Reapers are only concerned with the Milky Way. To the contrary, the Reapers are concerned with preserving life, with no qualifiers. If they're interested in sweeping up galactic civilizations in one galaxy to "preserve" them, why stop at one? Another thing: Static discharge of an eezo core should kill the crew and slag the ship after running for 2-3 days. How they gonna make one run constantly for several hundred years? The Reapers are concerned with doing what the stupid Star Child AI tells it to do. They don't have any other 'desire' then being controller by that glowing weird plotdevice. It's entire purpose was to figure out what to do with problem in the Milky Way. It's what it's entire purpose is about. It exist to deal with that. As for why not worry about other Galaxies? There's countless other galaxies all absurdly fall from the Milky Way. Andromeda is pretty damn far and it's the closest. Decided to look up that exact distance. Apparently it's 2.5 million light years away lol. They definitely would of needed mass relays setup over time to even attempt that. But that's just one, how're they gonna keep up with all of them? Nah, AI is concerned with the purpose it was created for, and that ultimately just concerns the Milky Way. Reapers aside I wanna know, like your saying, how the fuck do we get to Andromeda? I mean looking up the distance is absurd. They've said like '600-800 years' aaand... wtf? Would take Reapers 170 thousand years to get there at there top x30 FLT speed. We have to use 'something' besides basic FTL travel, or its taking us 340+ thousand years to get to Andromeda, not 600-ish. As far as constant FLT in massive Citadel sized ships... yeah I dunno. I mean space stations have facilities designed to allow ships to discharge there charges and im assuming (though it's never said) there own due to using mass effect fields to deal with gravity and other things. Considering the size of the ships I could see a lot of that existing to dissipate and deal with there own static buildup. As far as why other ships don't do that? I dunno, to small? Larger ones to busy having a gun run the length of the ship it's self? Generally I'd say most ships just don't have the consideration/space for it. I dunno on that, but I really would like to know what reason they come up with for how we get to Andromeda.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 30, 2016 17:32:35 GMT
I used "humanity" because Ryder is going to be human. Not because this is a human supersecret project. So yes, it is multiple races pooling resources. But it's not like any of them are already intergalactic travelers yet. They are mostly on par with each other tech-wise. And nowhere does it ever say the Reapers are only concerned with the Milky Way. To the contrary, the Reapers are concerned with preserving life, with no qualifiers. If they're interested in sweeping up galactic civilizations in one galaxy to "preserve" them, why stop at one? Another thing: Static discharge of an eezo core should kill the crew and slag the ship after running for 2-3 days. How they gonna make one run constantly for several hundred years? The Reapers are concerned with doing what the stupid Star Child AI tells it to do. They don't have any other 'desire' then being controller by that glowing weird plotdevice. It's entire purpose was to figure out what to do with problem in the Milky Way. It's what it's entire purpose is about. It exist to deal with that. As for why not worry about other Galaxies? There's countless other galaxies all absurdly fall from the Milky Way. Andromeda is pretty damn far and it's the closest. Decided to look up that exact distance. Apparently it's 2.5 million light years away lol. They definitely would of needed mass relays setup over time to even attempt that. But that's just one, how're they gonna keep up with all of them? Nah, AI is concerned with the purpose it was created for, and that ultimately just concerns the Milky Way. The Catalyst is a broken machine, with access to Immortal Space Cthulhu. What is time to a creature like that? We've already seen what insane extremes it's willing to go to for its "solution". Starbrat already took its mandate far far beyond original intentions.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 30, 2016 17:32:50 GMT
Reapers aside I wanna know, like your saying, how the fuck do we get to Andromeda? I mean looking up the distance is absurd. They've said like '600-800 years' aaand... wtf? Would take Reapers 170 thousand years to get there at there top x30 FLT speed. We have to use 'something' besides basic FTL travel, or its taking us 340+ thousand years to get to Andromeda, not 600-ish. It would take the Reapers only around 232 years to reach Andromeda. They don't travel 30x the speed of light. They travel 30 light years a day. That means in a year they can travel about 10,958 light years. Since we go half that with out fastest ships, about 12-15 light years per day, in a year we would travel about 4,383-5,479 light years. That comes out to the trip taking us around 579-464 years to get to Andromeda assuming we solve the static discharge problem.
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Post by Adhin on Aug 30, 2016 18:53:31 GMT
@ Iakus: You missing the part where the cycle happens every 50k years? There on a time line here. It's not infinite time to jaunt around multiple galaxies. They would have to have a single Reaper, Citadel, and relays, in EVERY galaxy they intend to watch over as the giant asshole-dick guardians they think they are.
There very real time restraint with in the Milky Way sorta puts a giant dent in worrying about other galaxies. I think your seeing a problem where one doesn't exist in this case.
@ hanako Ikezawa: Damnit that's right, forgot it was number of light years per day not some multiplier of light speed. So if we did (which the Reapers obviously have as they have no need to stop) the whole 600-800 years is very reasonable. Hell, the slightly slower travel might be due to the static charge build up counter measure, and that there massive absurdly large ships.
Anyway there's an estimated 100 billion Galaxies in the 'observable universe' and there's about 100 billion estimated stars in the milky way (other estimates are higher like 400 billion). So while I'm pretty confident the Reapers could manage 2, maybe 3 galaxies they wouldn't be able to manage all of them. Not sure why they would even bother trying honestly.
Frankly I hope we don't hear about the Reapers much past some secret are character learns for the real reason the ARK project was created. You know, hidden little email we find or something and us as players can be all 'Reapers, uh huh we know, we played the last games'. I'm happy to see them gone entirely, didn't much like that plot device lol.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 30, 2016 18:59:00 GMT
@ Iakus: You missing the part where the cycle happens every 50k years? There on a time line here. It's not infinite time to jaunt around multiple galaxies. They would have to have a single Reaper, Citadel, and relays, in EVERY galaxy they intend to watch over as the giant asshole-dick guardians they think they are. There very real time restraint with in the Milky Way sorta puts a giant dent in worrying about other galaxies. I think your seeing a problem where one doesn't exist in this case. Not infinite time, no, but it "only" takes 2-3 centuries for them to reach Andromeda. Then the harvest can begin. Heck they don't even need Reapers to do that. The Catalyst started with just machines. Which built the first Reapers. Then a relay network... Imagine the Reapers slowly spreading across galaxies like that. Like broods of locusts.
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Post by Arcian on Aug 30, 2016 19:03:39 GMT
Two things, one Reapers are only concerned with the Milky Way. If they cared about other Galaxies they would deal with them. They can travel twice as fast as the best ships in ME and if the trip takes like 600-800 years for us it'll take half that for them which is a rather small drop in there 50k bucket. So the Reapers, frankly, don't give a flying fuck. Not about can't, it's not impossible for them, they simply don't care about other galaxies. Also why do people keep wording it like it's all humanity? This isn't Humanities little secret project. It's Council races, a joint operation/group/ship building. Hell at this point they've dropped multiple hints (and practically said it outright) that the ARK project is even public knowledge. Best I can reason out the 'reason' for the project is the Reapers, secretly. Kinda a backup plan. But Publicly it's because Science, because we can, because it's difficult and we as a collective species want to try that. They're ultimately recruited from the public (or at least publicly recruiting from military and other organizations. As an aside before anyone reads this and goes Ahh but but what about Shepard, he/she didn't constantly mention it! - who cares? Why the fuck would that ever have any meaning what so ever on the existence of the project? Theres plenty of downtime between games, plenty of moments where he could of learned about it and be like 'well thats one backup plan I guess' and whatever. So tired of the if shepard doesn't somehow have knowledge of it (or acknowledge it), it can't happen crazy thinking. Erm, anyway, definitely want explanations for stuff in game. More detail and all that. REALLY hope it's not entirely just left up to the books. That always creates a some what disjointed feeling in stories. I used "humanity" because Ryder is going to be human. Not because this is a human supersecret project. So yes, it is multiple races pooling resources. But it's not like any of them are already intergalactic travelers yet. They are mostly on par with each other tech-wise. And nowhere does it ever say the Reapers are only concerned with the Milky Way. To the contrary, the Reapers are concerned with preserving life, with no qualifiers. If they're interested in sweeping up galactic civilizations in one galaxy to "preserve" them, why stop at one? Another thing: Static discharge of an eezo core should kill the crew and slag the ship after running for 2-3 days. How they gonna make one run constantly for several hundred years? It makes sense that there would be at least some qualifiers in play, as it is physically impossible for them to preserve ALL life - if this was indeed their mandate, they would have to reap the entire universe. Gotta draw some realistic lines, why not draw them around the Milky Way? Also, as an aside, seeing you without the Minsc avatar just feels wrong.
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Post by Adhin on Aug 30, 2016 19:12:54 GMT
Yeah I could see the Reapers setting up there own side reaper colonies to dickwag them selves in every galaxy they can get to. I am, however, glad BioWare wrote them only for the Milky Way and has no intentions of (at least currently) out of the home galaxy. Cause I'm frankly tired of there existence. Also, ME3 kinda ends them in general, outside of one directors cut ending just cause.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 30, 2016 19:56:24 GMT
Also, as an aside, seeing you without the Minsc avatar just feels wrong. If there were qualifiers, the Leviathans would not have been mulched to begin with. That's the thing, the Reapers are not operating with any limits to their behavior, so they can dream up all sorts of wacky things to "preserve" life. They're broken machines. What is Hulk not worthy?
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Post by Iakus on Aug 30, 2016 19:57:15 GMT
Yeah I could see the Reapers setting up there own side reaper colonies to dickwag them selves in every galaxy they can get to. I am, however, glad BioWare wrote them only for the Milky Way and has no intentions of (at least currently) out of the home galaxy. Cause I'm frankly tired of there existence. Also, ME3 kinda ends them in general, outside of one directors cut ending just cause. That's why I said I hope they have an explanation that's not a total cop-out.
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Post by Adhin on Aug 30, 2016 20:08:31 GMT
And I agree with that sentiment in relation to everything but the Reapers. We already know why the Reapers are only in the Galaxy. Go replay ME3 ending again if you want. If that's not enough I don't know how they could do much of anything besides making it some side story. There's no real way they could explain why the Reapers aren't in Andromeda with out it directly involving Reapers and them willingly telling us. You know what I mean?
How would you expect them to explain why the Reapers aren't in there past what we already know when they have 0 to do with the new game? I mean they have to make this thing accessible to new comers. They want to ignore, with out stepping on, the ending of ME3 which is the main driving force behind why they're putting it in a new galaxy. It also opens up some interesting supply/support issues and all that.
I'm all for a little secret reasoning for the ARK projects existence and are characters discovering the real reason why but that could never actually explain why the Reapers aren't there past the information we have. Not with out the Council being all 'yeah we talked to one Reaper who totally wasn't with the rest and said this is why they never left the Milky way, he was a cool guy for an evil death robot'.
Everything else agree with, hope we get good explanations for (with out it being to hamfisted). Reapers not being in Andromeda? Your going to be really, really disappointed if the current information that already mostly explains it isn't enough.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 30, 2016 21:13:58 GMT
Realism my ass when I play a game.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 30, 2016 21:25:15 GMT
@ hanako Ikezawa: Damnit that's right, forgot it was number of light years per day not some multiplier of light speed. So if we did (which the Reapers obviously have as they have no need to stop) the whole 600-800 years is very reasonable. Hell, the slightly slower travel might be due to the static charge build up counter measure, and that there massive absurdly large ships. Anyway there's an estimated 100 billion Galaxies in the 'observable universe' and there's about 100 billion estimated stars in the milky way (other estimates are higher like 400 billion). So while I'm pretty confident the Reapers could manage 2, maybe 3 galaxies they wouldn't be able to manage all of them. Not sure why they would even bother trying honestly. Frankly I hope we don't hear about the Reapers much past some secret are character learns for the real reason the ARK project was created. You know, hidden little email we find or something and us as players can be all 'Reapers, uh huh we know, we played the last games'. I'm happy to see them gone entirely, didn't much like that plot device lol. I can see the Reapers doing the Local Galactic Group, which consists of 4 galaxies(Andromeda, Milky Way, Triangulum, Large Magellanic Cloud) and a few dozen dwarf galaxies. It would only take them about 1,000 years to get to Andromeda, harvest it, and come back to the Milky Way. So them being able to harvest the ones in our group within 50,000 years is possible. I much prefer them being a never-stopping force that between harvests of the Milky Way are harvesting other galaxies than just them taking a nap between cycles. I don't see them going any further though since the other groups are too fat away to really be a problem. Plus with the Catalyst looking for a solution, it makes sense to use multiple galaxies as a variety of experiments just like how the Milky Way is one. It also ensures that the galaxies near us don't develop to a point to be a threat to the Reapers or the life they are 'preserving'. While I support the Reapers being intergalactic within our Local Galactic Group, I do not want to see them play a major role in the new games. What I want to see is their legacy, like perhaps we can get to Andromeda with Reaper or Collector tech since they can make the journey, or having Mass Relays, an icon of the franchise, remain in the franchise.
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Post by Adhin on Aug 30, 2016 21:31:12 GMT
Yeah, relays I can get behind though not there ahead of time. It's one of those debates the Asari had about weather or not they should create relays. Something the Protheans where considering prior to the whole oh shit, Repears thing. Would be interesting if that was a consideration in MEA. Like see the start of us making a relay or 2 or something.
I imagine it would end up being a large project instead of us just spitting em out all willy nilly. But would be an interesting thing to work towards through out multiple games.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 30, 2016 21:37:24 GMT
Yeah, relays I can get behind though not there ahead of time. It's one of those debates the Asari had about weather or not they should create relays. Something the Protheans where considering prior to the whole oh shit, Repears thing. Would be interesting if that was a consideration in MEA. Like see the start of us making a relay or 2 or something. I imagine it would end up being a large project instead of us just spitting em out all willy nilly. But would be an interesting thing to work towards through out multiple games. We'd never be able to build Mass Relays in Andromeda, at least not anywhere close to the timeframe the games would take place. Mass Relays are a project on a scale never tackled before, both in size and sophistication, and that was with a galactic infrastructure available. We would have no such infrastructure in Andromeda for hundreds or thousands of years. If there are to be Mass Relays, they would have to be there before us which means the Reapers(unless some ancient cycle did what we did and built them between when they ran away and when we ran away). Plus I can think of so many cool things that could happen if we discover a Mass Relay in Andromeda that wouldn't be possible if we built them.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Adhin on Aug 31, 2016 2:56:18 GMT
Well there not part of the game as far as we're aware, and they don't want to deal with the Reapers in general. I still think a Mass Relay project would be a good plot device for one of the later games. Not that we'd actually be using it as a means to get around necessarily but just an interesting thing to anchor a story around.
If we find anything like a Mass Relay I have a feeling it'll be from a completely different ancient race then some death robot. At which point I kinda hope it's completely different tech then the Mass Relays.
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