outlaworacle
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If it's alive, don't lick it
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: outlaworacle
XBL Gamertag: Blade McDeath
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Post by outlaworacle on Aug 29, 2016 18:52:01 GMT
One thing that disappointed me about the original trilogy was that they in no way addressed the way that people's perception of time would be altered due to faster than light travel. Even with FTL ships and a network of point to point wormholes basically, the galaxy is just treated like one big country. If it's Tuesday on Palaven, it's Tuesday on Omega.
Of course, relativity is frequently ignored in outer space stories because it's such a headache. There's never been any mention of it in Star Wars and Star Trek only acknolwedges it when it suits the plot, otherwise it's consistently ignored and contradicted. I haven't played it myself yet but I don't think that No Man's Sky deals with it either.
I don't imagine Andromeda will but it would be cool if it did. Especially since you're traveling all over and establishing colonies, it would be cool if when you got back from one edge of the galaxy back to where you started, your first colony was now a series of cities all over the planet, or something like that.
I'd also like to see, and this is maybe more likely from a gameplay perspective, a noticeable difference in gravity on different worlds. Of course, the Mako presented enough challenge all it's own for most people in ME1 but I think it could be fun if it behaved differently depending on the gravity, either super bouncy or almost impossible to climb with, etc.
What about you?
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Post by dalinne on Aug 29, 2016 18:56:21 GMT
One thing that disappointed me about the original trilogy was that they in no way addressed the way that people's perception of time would be altered due to faster than light travel. Even with FTL ships and a network of point to point wormholes basically, the galaxy is just treated like one big country. If it's Tuesday on Palaven, it's Tuesday on Omega. Of course, relativity is frequently ignored in outer space stories because it's such a headache. There's never been any mention of it in Star Wars and Star Trek only acknolwedges it when it suits the plot, otherwise it's consistently ignored and contradicted. I haven't played it myself yet but I don't think that No Man's Sky deals with it either. I don't imagine Andromeda will but it would be cool if it did. Especially since you're traveling all over and establishing colonies, it would be cool if when you got back from one edge of the galaxy back to where you started, your first colony was now a series of cities all over the planet, or something like that. I'd also like to see, and this is maybe more likely from a gameplay perspective, a noticeable difference in gravity on different worlds. Of course, the Mako presented enough challenge all it's own for most people in ME1 but I think it could be fun if it behaved differently depending on the gravity, either super bouncy or almost impossible to climb with, etc. What about you? Agree. I don't need something very radical (twenty-years-Interstellar-style) but something... You could see the growing of a Colony in just one game. In the colony years pass by, but for you it's like months. Also, one thing I felt missing in the original trilogy was the time INSIDE my own ship. I started to count days for each mission and other day for recovery and travelling.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 29, 2016 19:11:41 GMT
Any game relying upon flitting from star system to star system in order to complete a fetch quest relies upon huge quantities of 'space magic'... There may be a higher degree of realism on-planet, but even there, where did Shepard hide his/her helmet?
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outlaworacle
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If it's alive, don't lick it
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: outlaworacle
XBL Gamertag: Blade McDeath
PSN: Bullets_McDeath
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Post by outlaworacle on Aug 29, 2016 19:45:48 GMT
Any game relying upon flitting from star system to star system in order to complete a fetch quest relies upon huge quantities of 'space magic'... There may be a higher degree of realism on-planet, but even there, where did Shepard hide his/her helmet? It automatically retracts and collapses into the shoulders of the armor. Did your Space Magic™ instruction manual not have the page that explains that? It's outlined quite clearly in section 2F, Article 9.
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Post by RoboticWater on Aug 29, 2016 21:23:05 GMT
Any game relying upon flitting from star system to star system in order to complete a fetch quest relies upon huge quantities of 'space magic'... There may be a higher degree of realism on-planet, but even there, where did Shepard hide his/her helmet? It automatically retracts and collapses into the shoulders of the armor. Did your Space Magic™ instruction manual not have the page that explains that? It's outlined quite clearly in section 2F, Article 9. Gosh, if only...
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Aug 29, 2016 21:43:13 GMT
Space is big. Since we don't have Mass Relays as a cheatsheet, I'm really hoping space feels big and what we do doesn't shake the whole of Andromeda.
I'd also really like to not have to take a star exploding as a serious threat when we can activate FTL. I'd also like some unexpected geologic problems planetside. I REALLY want a landslide in space to overtake the team and to have problems and pathos stemming from it.
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Post by Adhin on Aug 29, 2016 22:12:56 GMT
Yeah, I dunno exactly how the dilation would work. That is, not sure if it would work in the way your thinking but theres definitely some handwavy Mass Effect fixes that going on in the lore. Literally in the entry it says due to the mass effect field it creates we 'fall into' it increases the speed of light with in that field blah blah space magic whatever.
Anyway, so heres the question I guess. Say we're going from Earth to Pluto in distance with not even FTL, just as fast as light. It's 8 minutes from us to the Sun. That's about 2/3rds the way to pluto apparently. So 4 minutes to get from Earth, to Pluto. So what exactly happens in that 4 minutes? Do we experience it like a month? A second? How can we go from point A to point B that fast but somehow an entire city was formed?
I mean, I can understand the dilation if we where experiencing that time (and thus aging) either faster or slower compared to that 4 minutes but as far as any of the people on those planets are concerned it would be 4 minutes. So wouldn't it more likely be we experience that 4 minutes (technically less) almost instantly and as such don't age the same during that time frame? Or would it seem like a year to us?
From my absurdly basic understanding more speed = less time experienced or less aging. And if point A to B is 4 minutes to the outside, it would I'd assume feel like fraction of a second to us, not the other way around.
edit: As an aside are best FLT is I think 15 times? Reapers where 30. So that 4 minutes would be 16 seconds as far as the people living on the planets are concerned.
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Post by Ahriman on Aug 29, 2016 22:42:29 GMT
They had Rule Of Cool on their shoulders. If they addressed this there wouldn't be any shiny lights in windows because every FTL travel would take less than a second for passengers. Though I admit that don't quite remember ME magic in that area. " It reduces the mass of an object, such as a starship, to a point where velocities faster than the speed of light are possible." - this alone won't allow FTL, to move with speed of light object must have zero mass. Objects with no matter how small mass still would require infinite amount of energy to accelerate to lightspeed. Anyway, so heres the question I guess. Say we're going from Earth to Pluto in distance with not even FTL, just as fast as light. It's 8 minutes from us to the Sun. That's about 2/3rds the way to pluto apparently. So 4 minutes to get from Earth, to Pluto. So what exactly happens in that 4 minutes? Do we experience it like a month? A second? How can we go from point A to point B that fast but somehow an entire city was formed? I mean, I can understand the dilation if we where experiencing that time (and thus aging) either faster or slower compared to that 4 minutes but as far as any of the people on those planets are concerned it would be 4 minutes. So wouldn't it more likely be we experience that 4 minutes (technically less) almost instantly and as such don't age the same during that time frame? Or would it seem like a year to us? The closer speed of ship to speed of light the stronger time dilation. Yes, passengers would age less on such speed. Practically speeking astronauts on orbit are getting 0.007 seconds behind Earth time for every six months.
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Post by Garo on Aug 29, 2016 23:05:27 GMT
"I miss those old games where you had to remember to drink water, and it took five hours real time to fly somewhere." - this thread made me think of this Salarian game salesman in the Citadel I don't think we will create entire cities on planets, more like little camps that will gather things for us and stuff. Tho the gravity thing would be cool
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Post by Adhin on Aug 29, 2016 23:10:13 GMT
Right so what would be an 'outside view' of the travel of an hour, would feel like a minute or a second at those speeds. As far as anyone on those ships are concerned - they might as well be teleporting. Which leads me to, theres no way we would travel that fast from planet to planet but enough years would pass for entire generations be born with cities cropping up.
I mean we might lose a galactic day or 2 but we're, frankly, not travelling slow enough for that kind of time to pass outside of are special magic FLC bubble.
As far as the lore it's in the first FTL though its semi vague and has a general 'trust us it works' sound to it. But it sounds like the FTL bubble the ship 'falls into' (instead of just effecting the ship directly) artificially also has the effect of increasing the max speed of light it's self allowing for speeds greater then the base speed of light.
It's space magic, but Mass Effect fields in general are space magic. So having space magic make some space magic? Sure, why not.
edit:
Oh as an aside I would love to see gravity effect our jetpack and other physics based stuff on certain planets. Though I have a feeling most colonies will be on planets of relative size to not make it to extreme. Would still be snazzy to see it happen on a few of em.
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Post by Larry-3 on Aug 30, 2016 2:09:02 GMT
According to current science, light speed is the universal speed limit. Star Wars kind of works around this by allowing ships to shift into hyperspace. Speaking of Star Wars, their ships are excessively fast; ludicrous speed fast. A Mass Relay would be a joke to everyone in Star Wars.
Also, I do agree about the different times on planets.
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Post by Sartoz on Aug 30, 2016 2:21:07 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>
Think about it. Time dilation effects will not work in this story. Its effects, if applied, is the equivalent of a WW1 combat company with horses coming home in the 21st century. They will be useless in the military. The culture has changed, the tech, social behaviour, speech patterns plus most of them would only have minimal education. Integrating those soldiers in today's society would be a nightmare. Same with Ryder and company when they come back decades / centuries later. By that time, whatever problems existed then, has long been dealt with one way or another.
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Post by Adhin on Aug 30, 2016 2:35:35 GMT
Yeah, they're also doing it in Andromeda where not only is the galaxy its self bigger, but the density of star to star is far greater as well. Which, ultimately, is the important one for us since we wont be relay hopping. Kinda curious what BioWares idea is gonna be as far as going from system to system. Closest start to us is like... 4.2 light years? That would take like 3 months by x15 FTL. Wonder how much 'closer' it's gonna be to make it not seem like complete lunacy. I mean, Dilation isn't even working in the direction OP is thinking. The trip would take 3 months as far as people on the planets are concerned, would seem much shorter to us. Either way no cities are cropping up in that amount of time. It's not a thing of technology that slows that, it's birth rates. edit: I do think it's ultimately pointless to consider overall. Even if going from Solar system to solar system takes a few days in Andromeda (not from the Tempest perspective).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 2:54:50 GMT
Hm, great thread idea. Never thought of it myself. ME1 did a great job in not only establishing its world (and by world, I'm referring to its universe, the characters, etc). It did it in a way in which I could see the technology and social structure as plausible. Andromeda is going to be MUCH harder considering its taking place in an entirely different galaxy. At the current time, we're just starting to get telescopes that can barely view these other places much less drone that can visit them. It's all amazing. I think I'd like to see a step forward from where Mass Effect 2 and 3 left off in terms of technology and weaponry. I'd also like to see a similar dichotomy with the new races we meet where each race brings something unique to the table.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 30, 2016 3:19:20 GMT
One thing that disappointed me about the original trilogy was that they in no way addressed the way that people's perception of time would be altered due to faster than light travel. Even with FTL ships and a network of point to point wormholes basically, the galaxy is just treated like one big country. If it's Tuesday on Palaven, it's Tuesday on Omega. Of course, relativity is frequently ignored in outer space stories because it's such a headache. There's never been any mention of it in Star Wars and Star Trek only acknolwedges it when it suits the plot, otherwise it's consistently ignored and contradicted. I haven't played it myself yet but I don't think that No Man's Sky deals with it either. I don't imagine Andromeda will but it would be cool if it did. Especially since you're traveling all over and establishing colonies, it would be cool if when you got back from one edge of the galaxy back to where you started, your first colony was now a series of cities all over the planet, or something like that. I'd also like to see, and this is maybe more likely from a gameplay perspective, a noticeable difference in gravity on different worlds. Of course, the Mako presented enough challenge all it's own for most people in ME1 but I think it could be fun if it behaved differently depending on the gravity, either super bouncy or almost impossible to climb with, etc. What about you? 1) Bioware made it so time dilation does not occur for those traveling FTL via the Mass Effect. 2) The lore has it that your suit's mass effect fields that make you feel the gravity you are used to, so for example humans would feel 1 g no matter the planet.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Aug 30, 2016 3:36:03 GMT
1) Bioware made it so time dilation does not occur for those traveling FTL via the Mass Effect. 2) The lore has it that your suit's mass effect fields that make you feel the gravity you are used to, so for example humans would feel 1 g no matter the planet. Huh, I don't remember that. It makes sense though. Personally, I always thought they didn't take advantage of ME fields nearly enough in ME. If they can do that, they should be able to adjust it, too. So why can't we use them to make huge jumps? We couldn't even jump at all... There are just so many possibilities with that kind of technology, and many an ingame problem could have been solved with creative use of it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 30, 2016 5:08:30 GMT
1) Bioware made it so time dilation does not occur for those traveling FTL via the Mass Effect. 2) The lore has it that your suit's mass effect fields that make you feel the gravity you are used to, so for example humans would feel 1 g no matter the planet. Huh, I don't remember that. It makes sense though. Personally, I always thought they didn't take advantage of ME fields nearly enough in ME. If they can do that, they should be able to adjust it, too. So why can't we use them to make huge jumps? We couldn't even jump at all... There are just so many possibilities with that kind of technology, and many an ingame problem could have been solved with creative use of it. Well, for the second one it gives me the feeling of something they wrote into the lore to account for the limitations in the games. Since they are using the Frostbite engine now and can do things like jumping, I can see them doing some of what you say. After all, I bet the jump jets we have in our suits will have an explanation involving the mass effect behind them as well as let us experience say maps with little to no gravity since we can use the jump jets to move around(and of course mag boots).
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Post by Arcian on Aug 30, 2016 10:21:31 GMT
They had Rule Of Cool on their shoulders. If they addressed this there wouldn't be any shiny lights in windows because every FTL travel would take less than a second for passengers. Though I admit that don't quite remember ME magic in that area. " It reduces the mass of an object, such as a starship, to a point where velocities faster than the speed of light are possible." - this alone won't allow FTL, to move with speed of light object must have zero mass. Objects with no matter how small mass still would require infinite amount of energy to accelerate to lightspeed. The crucial part of ME physics people tend to forget is that eezo only affects mass, not energy. If a Mass Effect field reduces mass by 90% but energy stays the same, physics has to compensate by increasing the speed of light within the field by a relative factor. If it doesn't, the math - specifically the energy-mass equivalence, E=mc^2 - breaks down. So, in other words, the speed of light is technically never broken because the speed of light is much, much higher inside the mass effect field than it is outside. To outside observers it would certainly appear that the FTL spacecraft is breaking the speed of light, but according to the altered physics inside the field enveloping the spacecraft, the craft is travelling at sublight speeds. Anyway, so heres the question I guess. Say we're going from Earth to Pluto in distance with not even FTL, just as fast as light. It's 8 minutes from us to the Sun. That's about 2/3rds the way to pluto apparently. So 4 minutes to get from Earth, to Pluto. So what exactly happens in that 4 minutes? Do we experience it like a month? A second? How can we go from point A to point B that fast but somehow an entire city was formed? I mean, I can understand the dilation if we where experiencing that time (and thus aging) either faster or slower compared to that 4 minutes but as far as any of the people on those planets are concerned it would be 4 minutes. So wouldn't it more likely be we experience that 4 minutes (technically less) almost instantly and as such don't age the same during that time frame? Or would it seem like a year to us? The closer speed of ship to speed of light the stronger time dilation. Yes, passengers would age less on such speed. Practically speeking astronauts on orbit are getting 0.007 seconds behind Earth time for every six months. This is true, but because the spacecraft never gets anywhere near the local speed of light in the Mass Effect field, they won't experience any non-negligible time dilation even while travelling thousands of times faster than the speed of light outside the field. The motive power during FTL comes from the conventional thrusters, and we know they use primarily antimatter thrusters which can achieve a speed of 72 million mph, which is around 10% of the speed of light. Given that they travel at around 4380 times the speed of light, that means the FTL engine increases the speed of light by 43800 times. Wonderful piece of technology.
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Post by degs29 on Aug 30, 2016 12:16:56 GMT
Very interesting.
I wouldn't want to see a drastic change, and I don't believe it'd theoretically be a drastic change anyway. How much time do you gain by traveling to the other side of the galaxy and back using FTL travel? Days? Weeks? Months?
I wouldn't mind if a couple weeks or months had passed by the time you return, and now your base camp is a fledgling colony. It would make it more realistic, rather than your colony being instantaneously created and fully productive.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Aug 30, 2016 12:40:48 GMT
Any game relying upon flitting from star system to star system in order to complete a fetch quest relies upon huge quantities of 'space magic'... There may be a higher degree of realism on-planet, but even there, where did Shepard hide his/her helmet? I know it sounds nuts to be so picky but i think it would be awesone if there was an answer to that. Even if its just a single moment in a cut scene. Won't cry without it but its a little touch that would be great. @op I get what you mean it would be great to see it factored in to the lore but not necessarily the gameplay. No need to announce what day it is or anything. But mention it in passing or have an npc talk about it in the background.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 30, 2016 12:45:42 GMT
I know it sounds nuts to be so picky but i think it would be awesone if there was an answer to that. Even if its just a single moment in a cut scene. Won't cry without it but its a little touch that would be great. ... I'm just afraid that the answer will be the same place that this guy stores a shotgun, 3 pistols and 20 items of junk...
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Post by Iakus on Aug 30, 2016 15:06:54 GMT
I'd like to see them explain how humanity could get to Andromeda and the Reapers, which are millions of years more advanced, cannot.
In a way that's not totally contrived.
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Post by Beerfish on Aug 30, 2016 15:15:28 GMT
Some of these things would be nice but in the end they should be ruled out if they simply get in the way of the story or the fun of the game. If they can be cleverly worked into the stoty I am all for it but if they become an impediment to the story or game play skip it.
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Post by Vortex13 on Aug 30, 2016 15:29:41 GMT
Space is big. Since we don't have Mass Relays as a cheatsheet, I'm really hoping space feels big and what we do doesn't shake the whole of Andromeda.I'd also really like to not have to take a star exploding as a serious threat when we can activate FTL. I'd also like some unexpected geologic problems planetside. I REALLY want a landslide in space to overtake the team and to have problems and pathos stemming from it. Agree wholeheartedly with the bolded. Having our protagonist galavanting from one side of the Milky Way to the other, only made everything seem small; to the point that your average player was saying that we'd already seen everything there was to see in our home galaxy despite less than 1% of it actually being explored. I've said it on the old BSN, and I'll say it here: We need a setting that is scaled similar to the Traveller universe. travellermap.comTake a look at the map for that game. Zoom all the way in, and all the way out. That's how BioWare should approach the scale of things in Andromeda and any of it's sequels.
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Arcian
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Arcian on Aug 30, 2016 16:03:14 GMT
Space is big. Since we don't have Mass Relays as a cheatsheet, I'm really hoping space feels big and what we do doesn't shake the whole of Andromeda.I'd also really like to not have to take a star exploding as a serious threat when we can activate FTL. I'd also like some unexpected geologic problems planetside. I REALLY want a landslide in space to overtake the team and to have problems and pathos stemming from it. Agree wholeheartedly with the bolded. Having our protagonist galavanting from one side of the Milky Way to the other, only made everything seem small; to the point that your average player was saying that we'd already seen everything there was to see in our home galaxy despite less than 1% of it actually being explored. I've said it on the old BSN, and I'll say it here: We need a setting that is scaled similar to the Traveller universe. travellermap.comTake a look at the map for that game. Zoom all the way in, and all the way out. That's how BioWare should approach the scale of things in Andromeda and any of it's sequels. What we need is an actual three-dimensional galaxy map. The scale of a galaxy cannot be appreciated in two dimensions.
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