alihou
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by alihou on Apr 5, 2017 20:14:48 GMT
What a waste of time, this should be bottom of the list. You know what offends me and most other people? A broken game with a big list of issues. Once you fix all the bugs, implement a better cc, then maybe you can fix Abrams....
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Post by lurkinglurker on Apr 5, 2017 20:15:05 GMT
The fact that they had to announce it and make a big deal out of it. Clearly a sign that they are trying to win a certain group over. This isn't a political campaign. Keep these sort of announcements out of the video game industry. But by that logic, the patch notes in general falls into that category because it's all about winning certain groups over to cater to them. Incorrect. There are some issues like technical issues that are objectively bad for the game itself. No offense, but comparing this sort of stuff to patch notes in a video game is a stupid comparison. This is all about a few crybabies getting easily offended.
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anubiros
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Anubiros89
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Post by anubiros on Apr 5, 2017 20:18:38 GMT
I honestly didn't notice the transgender part when talking to this character, though I did think it was a bit weird that all the random NPCs in Podromos started telling me their life story when I first met them. Instead of apologizing for offending anyone with that specific character, they should try to find more subtle ways of adding depth to NPCs in general. That is a sort of cheat for RPGs in the end though, asking random NPCs questions about themselves and whats going on in the world around them. Perhaps the issue is the volume being higher due to the large amount of NPCs? Yeah, if I recall correctly, there are at least 5 people in leading positions in Podromos and you are sent to talk to each of them after first establishing the outpost. Just running to each person and having a personal conversation about their lives just felt a bit off to me.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 5, 2017 20:18:53 GMT
But by that logic, the patch notes in general falls into that category because it's all about winning certain groups over to cater to them. Incorrect. There are some issues like technical issues that are objectively bad for the game itself. No offense, but comparing this sort of stuff to patch notes in a video game is a stupid comparison. But so is your accusation that addressing some specific criticisms of the game shouldn't be mentioned either. It may not matter to you, but it does to others. Just like I didn't really give a flying fig about inventory limits and balance issues, as fixing that seems like a waste of time as well. But that's not for me in the end, doesn't mean i'm going to shoot it down.
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Post by Warrick on Apr 5, 2017 20:20:18 GMT
Oh my god, why has this become such a big deal? People are so outraged by an obscure character with two lines that Bioware felt the need to apologize for it? Get over it already. Nothing is good enough for the righteous. This is why David Gaider left tumblr. I guarantee there will be complaints that the char was not written by a trans writer and therefore it's appropriation or erasing or something like that.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Apr 5, 2017 20:20:50 GMT
They didn't have to. This is literally the stupidest criticism of the game out there and that's saying something. She was a tertiary character that you had to go out of your way to find and then go out of your way to find out she was trans. ... who was still represented poorly. If people didn't criticize how Bioware represented said character, Bioware would not know that their representation seemed forced and unauthentic. They would keep making characters like the one in question, thinking it's the right way to represent a character like that. As long as the criticism doesn't get out of control, it's necessary, informative, and not "stupid."
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FeralEwok
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Yub Nub
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 5, 2017 20:21:36 GMT
What a waste of time, this should be bottom of the list. You know what offends me and most other people? A broken game with a big list of issues. Once you fix all the bugs, implement a better cc, then maybe you can fix Abrams.... I don't think you speak for most other people otherwise they wouldn't bother. Also public relations problems are a very high priority. Potential negative buzz about gender issues surrounding your game can hurt you just as bad if not worse than people unhappy about bugs or a better CC.
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panzerwzh
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All these violent delights have violent ends.
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Post by panzerwzh on Apr 5, 2017 20:26:43 GMT
What a waste of time, this should be bottom of the list. You know what offends me and most other people? A broken game with a big list of issues. Once you fix all the bugs, implement a better cc, then maybe you can fix Abrams.... Second it! Fixing one trans NPC to bring back MEA's publicity? Leave it to the PR firm, BW is supposed to be game studio FFS.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 5, 2017 20:28:10 GMT
That is a sort of cheat for RPGs in the end though, asking random NPCs questions about themselves and whats going on in the world around them. Perhaps the issue is the volume being higher due to the large amount of NPCs? Yeah, if I recall correctly, there are at least 5 people in leading positions in Podromos and you are sent to talk to each of them after first establishing the outpost. Just running to each person and having a personal conversation about their lives just felt a bit off to me. In general, I have to say, I absolutely love how they actually put a bunch of people with actual backstories into these outposts. That is a vast improvement from anything games did before in stories where you expanded your influence (I mean, just think about the inquisition camps, right?). So I dont want to complain too much about this because they did a great job, giving us the feeling that those were now really places where people would live. But I aslo agree that it was a bit weird to just walk up to everyone and ask them about their backstories (also didn't notice the transgender aspect about Hainly btw ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KGsHESiZGZU0pPuHuhQr.png) ). It's a bit weird that they will correct this sort of thing just for her but hey, I guess it's better than nothing. I hope they will learn a more general lesson from this though, that it's better to develop even minor characters through a quest or something, even if it's just a small one and not just put the "ask about background" option into the dialogue wheel from the start.
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Post by lurkinganon on Apr 5, 2017 20:29:23 GMT
Dumb complaint. As a member of the gay community, I demand Bioware takes that Apology back. They're not apologizing for having included Hainly Abrams' character: they're apologizing for how they included her character. Basically, Bioware agrees with the criticism that her dialogue bit feels like a checklist attempt and so want to change it so it's more natural and not something she says completely unprompted. Is she not just some NPC Quest-Giver? You ask her why she came to Andromeda and she tells you. Nothing really offensive there.
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Rhidor
N2
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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PSN: Rhidor
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Post by Rhidor on Apr 5, 2017 20:33:40 GMT
Where do you meet her? I heard about her being trans was "shoved into the players face" somewhere but I don't think I ever ran into the character in my playthrough.
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 5, 2017 20:34:56 GMT
What a waste of time, this should be bottom of the list. You know what offends me and most other people? A broken game with a big list of issues. Once you fix all the bugs, implement a better cc, then maybe you can fix Abrams.... I don't think you speak for most other people otherwise they wouldn't bother. Also public relations problems are a very high priority. Potential negative buzz about gender issues surrounding your game can hurt you just as bad if not worse than people unhappy about bugs or a better CC. Just imagine if Blazing Saddles came out in 2017. Maybe Bioware should just play it safe from now on like every other game and not include homosexuals and trans. But considering everyone is so entitied with this game and the ME fans since mass Effect 3 are considered to be some of the worst individuals who grace this planet, I wouldn't put it past EA to just say fuck it and scrap the next Mass Effect all together.
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zaefkol
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Post by zaefkol on Apr 5, 2017 20:35:05 GMT
What a waste of time, this should be bottom of the list. You know what offends me and most other people? A broken game with a big list of issues. Once you fix all the bugs, implement a better cc, then maybe you can fix Abrams.... But the problem with this sentiment is that prioritizing fixes for the game is not just about what is most important; they also consider what is easiest.
While I'm sure that issues like facial animations and cc complaints are fairly high on the list of important things to fix, they are also some of the more time consuming and work intensive things that need to be fixed.
While addressing some bugs will be simple, others will be much more difficult.
When game developers work on fixes and patches, they split their time between the high priority stuff that is complicated to address and the quick fixes. Tweaking a minor character's dialogue tree seems like a relatively quick fix.
It's not like fixing Abrams is going to delay the animation work by months or something.
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Post by lurkinglurker on Apr 5, 2017 20:36:58 GMT
Incorrect. There are some issues like technical issues that are objectively bad for the game itself. No offense, but comparing this sort of stuff to patch notes in a video game is a stupid comparison. But so is your accusation that addressing some specific criticisms of the game shouldn't be mentioned either. It may not matter to you, but it does to others. Just like I didn't really give a flying fig about inventory limits and balance issues, as fixing that seems like a waste of time as well. But that's not for me in the end, doesn't mean i'm going to shoot it down. Let me be more clear. This adds next to nothing in the game. This is about a few people getting offended by a couple lines of dialogue from a very minor npc. This is not a fix or a patch or whatever you want to call it. They are not patching or fixing anything by doing this. This is Bioware giving in to the complaints of the easily offended and trying to win that group over which they never will because they will just find something else to complain about. They even posted a formal apology towards the group. Get it now?
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Post by Zemgus on Apr 5, 2017 20:37:59 GMT
I think the game has much more pressing issues than one minor characters (who I don't even remember) 2 lines of dialogue, but I guess Bioware feels otherwise.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 5, 2017 20:38:14 GMT
Dumb complaint. As a member of the gay community, I demand Bioware takes that Apology back. They're not apologizing for having included Hainly Abrams' character: they're apologizing for how they included her character. Basically, Bioware agrees with the criticism that her dialogue bit feels like a checklist attempt and so want to change it so it's more natural and not something she says completely unprompted. Is she not just some NPC Quest-Giver? You ask her why she came to Andromeda and she tells you. Nothing really offensive there. Just relaying what's said because I know not everybody is going to be reading the article and is going to go with whatever abridged version they hear. It always happens. Seriously, without fail. As for the criticism, I know some people were bothered by how the information was handled and expressed that opinion. I'm not counting the people who were bothered by the mere inclusion of a trans characters and complained about the dialogue for that reason.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 5, 2017 20:38:26 GMT
Yeah, if I recall correctly, there are at least 5 people in leading positions in Podromos and you are sent to talk to each of them after first establishing the outpost. Just running to each person and having a personal conversation about their lives just felt a bit off to me. In general, I have to say, I absolutely love how they actually put a bunch of people with actual backstories into these outposts. That is a vast improvement from anything games did before in stories where you expanded your influence (I mean, just think about the inquisition camps, right?). So I dont want to complain too much about this because they did a great job, giving us the feeling that those were now really places where people would live. But I aslo agree that it was a bit weird to just walk up to everyone and ask them about their backstories (also didn't notice the transgender aspect about Hainly btw ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KGsHESiZGZU0pPuHuhQr.png) ). It's a bit weird that they will correct this sort of thing just for her but hey, I guess it's better than nothing. I hope they will learn a more general lesson from this though, that it's better to develop even minor characters through a quest or something, even if it's just a small one and not just put the "ask about background" option into the dialogue wheel from the start. Perhaps that is a better way to go about it. Having a few characters involved with some quests and after you do one or two smaller tasks they open up more and hear their backstory? Anything is possible there.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 5, 2017 20:39:04 GMT
But so is your accusation that addressing some specific criticisms of the game shouldn't be mentioned either. It may not matter to you, but it does to others. Just like I didn't really give a flying fig about inventory limits and balance issues, as fixing that seems like a waste of time as well. But that's not for me in the end, doesn't mean i'm going to shoot it down. Let me be more clear. This adds next to nothing in the game. This is about a few people getting offended by a couple lines of dialogue from a very minor npc. This is not a fix or a patch or whatever you want to call it. They are not patching or fixing anything by doing this. This is Bioware giving in to the complaints of the easily offended and trying to win that group over which they never will because they will just find something else to complain about. They even posted a formal apology towards the group. Get it now? So why are you offended by the offenders then?
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 5, 2017 20:39:27 GMT
Thanks OP for sharing this piece of 'news'.
Different people would like different things patched. I have no need to see the planet animations skipped but I'm not going to mock those who would like that patched.
This thread went downhill quickly, so we're done here.
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Post by lurkinglurker on Apr 5, 2017 20:39:38 GMT
Let me be more clear. This adds next to nothing in the game. This is about a few people getting offended by a couple lines of dialogue from a very minor npc. This is not a fix or a patch or whatever you want to call it. They are not patching or fixing anything by doing this. This is Bioware giving in to the complaints of the easily offended and trying to win that group over which they never will because they will just find something else to complain about. They even posted a formal apology towards the group. Get it now? So why are you offended by the offenders then? I'm not. Just questioning Bioware's priorities.
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