lezio
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Post by lezio on Apr 6, 2017 1:11:35 GMT
I have yet to see anyone speak about this, so i'd like to hear people's opinion about it
Personally, i think removing altogether the system really took out much of the "illusion of choice" that RPGs really need to have, and gave the game a Fallout 5 vibe i really didn't like (you can talk, like 2 times out of 10, but if the conversation has to end in combat it will end in combat, if you can persuade then you'll end up presuading[ironically, even if you refuse quests, most times you'll end up accepting, like in FO4])
It didn't ruin the game for me, because the big choices aren't that bad and some of them are "grey", which i like, but especially because of this it never really felt like anything i did actually mattered apart from the big choice at the end of the mission. Of course it didn't really matter either if one persuaded/intimidated people during a whatever mission in ME1/2, because the outcome would always be the same, but the journey would always feel different, which is something that i feel this game kind of lacks (much like Inquisition). It just feels incredibly linear
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Nightlife
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Missing the Milky Way
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Post by Nightlife on Apr 6, 2017 1:13:15 GMT
Yeah I kinda miss the persuasion/intimidate type mechanic. You had to earn them over time doing things and talking to people a certain way. Everything in Andromeda just felt too neutral for me.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 6, 2017 1:15:47 GMT
"The dialogue system is such an improvement over P/R" :dumb:
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Post by kingmandu on Apr 6, 2017 3:07:43 GMT
Yeah, you clearly missed a lot of content if you think everything ends in combat. I certainly talked things down or took another route. Even for the "fetch" quests.
The trilogy was linear as hell, don't get it twisted.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 6, 2017 3:11:26 GMT
Theres been a couple of threads. The general theme I got from them seems to be Ryder is a bit soft and the game needed some ruthless dialogue options.
I agree with that. I miss Renegade-ish dialogue. Im happy the meter is gone but it restricts roleplay. Too neutral.
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Nightlife
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Missing the Milky Way
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Post by Nightlife on Apr 6, 2017 3:31:13 GMT
Male Ryder came off nauseatingly goodie-two-shoes for me. I had to stop using the 'heart' option and do casual or professional so I wouldn't barf.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 6, 2017 3:34:18 GMT
The series hasn't had a good mechanic since ME1. I'll take no system over ME2's mess, and ME3 was just a completeness check.
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Soulforge
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Post by Soulforge on Apr 6, 2017 3:58:40 GMT
I miss Renegade options, but Charm/Intimidate was usually a terrible non-choice. Only one regular line over choosing persuasion jumps out at me, in LOTSB.
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Nightlife
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Missing the Milky Way
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Post by Nightlife on Apr 6, 2017 4:02:30 GMT
I liked having to earn different ways to deal with situations, at least the old Para/Gade system offered that. In the new system, there is just Ryder making a choice. I mean, I guess that's more realistic, but I miss the sense of earning things. Yeah it's a bit binary but I liked being able to skip some battles in the OT altogether that way, like when you can persuade Saren to kill himself at the end. It really worked when you were full Paragon/Renegade, less so in between. I'm not sure how to improve upon it going forward.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 4:03:33 GMT
I approve any system they put in the game that make us able to deal with a situation in a different way. That means it can be combat wise, dialogue wise, interrupt wise.
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Post by fraggle on Apr 6, 2017 8:31:44 GMT
I'm okay with the current system, just not the dialogue tones. Needs aggressiveness. They should've gone with a system similar to DA2 where there were distinctive dialogue tones and the autodialogue changed depending on which personality type you shape Hawke into. Such a missed opportunity. At the beginning I found Ryder to be super bland, but he grew on me and I hope to see him develop into a more diversive character. Paragon is fine and all, it's just boring as hell if you have to play him like that all the time.
Also, who can seriously have something against more choices on how to shape the protagonist? The more we have the better and more immersive it will be.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 6, 2017 9:15:46 GMT
I'm okay with the current system, just not the dialogue tones. Needs aggressiveness. They should've gone with a system similar to DA2 where there were distinctive dialogue tones and the autodialogue changed depending on which personality type you shape Hawke into. Such a missed opportunity. At the beginning I found Ryder to be super bland, but he grew on me and I hope to see him develop into a more diversive character. Paragon is fine and all, it's just boring as hell if you have to play him like that all the time. Also, who can seriously have something against more choices on how to shape the protagonist? The more we have the better and more immersive it will be. Hate to say it but DA is showing MEA up again.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 6, 2017 9:19:01 GMT
Male Ryder came off nauseatingly goodie-two-shoes for me. I had to stop using the 'heart' option and do casual or professional so I wouldn't barf. The fact they used a goddamn heart for those options wasn't enough for you to see that was the goodie-two-shoes option? Ffs.
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Post by fraggle on Apr 6, 2017 9:24:18 GMT
Male Ryder came off nauseatingly goodie-two-shoes for me. I had to stop using the 'heart' option and do casual or professional so I wouldn't barf. The fact they used a goddamn heart for those options wasn't enough for you to see that was the goodie-two-shoes option? Ffs. The problem is that ALL of the options are the goodie-two-shoes option. Emotional and casual were just the worst offenders. In my opinion at least.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 6, 2017 9:26:11 GMT
The fact they used a goddamn heart for those options wasn't enough for you to see that was the goodie-two-shoes option? Ffs. The problem is that ALL of the options are the goodie-two-shoes option. Emotional and casual were just the worst offenders. In my opinion at least. I don't mind this at all. It's becoming quite ridiculous to be able to play a goddamn psychopath and everybody still kissing your ass. You know, like Renegade Shepard. That was ridiculous.
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Post by ProbeAway on Apr 6, 2017 9:27:15 GMT
I'm okay with the current system, just not the dialogue tones. Needs aggressiveness. They should've gone with a system similar to DA2 where there were distinctive dialogue tones and the autodialogue changed depending on which personality type you shape Hawke into. Such a missed opportunity. At the beginning I found Ryder to be super bland, but he grew on me and I hope to see him develop into a more diversive character. Paragon is fine and all, it's just boring as hell if you have to play him like that all the time. Also, who can seriously have something against more choices on how to shape the protagonist? The more we have the better and more immersive it will be. They should have gone with ruthless vs compassionate and professional vs casual. Logical and professional aren't quite distinct enough IMO.
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lezio
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Innateagle
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Post by lezio on Apr 6, 2017 9:53:29 GMT
Yeah, you clearly missed a lot of content if you think everything ends in combat. I certainly talked things down or took another route. Even for the "fetch" quests. The trilogy was linear as hell, don't get it twisted. lol Sorry to be blunt, but no, you never managed to talk things down. The few times you did so it was because the game decided that things would have to be talked down. Similarly, when the game decides a fight needs to happen, it'll happen. Some fights are avoidable and you'll end up avoiding them, some fights aren't and you'll fight them ME1 and 2 were linear in gameplay only, but as far as choices and dialogues went? Much above Andromeda, there it was actually possible to feel like we were actually doing something tight ro get to the desired outcome(greatest example of this? Saren. The outcome is the same, but the journey held meaning and made it feel like our interactions with him actually mattered[cuz they did]). Here it's, again, like FO4. Open-world, but overall linear as hell (again, apart from the big choices) The problem is that ALL of the options are the goodie-two-shoes option. Emotional and casual were just the worst offenders. In my opinion at least. I don't mind this at all. It's becoming quite ridiculous to be able to play a goddamn psychopath and everybody still kissing your ass. You know, like Renegade Shepard. That was ridiculous. Did you only play Mass Effect 3? Aka, if you're smart pick the good choice, if you aren't pick the bad one? Because ME1 and 2 Renegade had one of the best portrayal i've even seen of pragmatic/hardass choices that make sense but aren't actually evil (apart from a few, like Morinth). Dragon Age Origins is another example, maybe even a better one since it wasn't bound by the dialogue wheel and therefor was much more expansive. Tyranny also comes to mind
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Post by SofNascimento on Apr 6, 2017 10:03:05 GMT
I've played this game for some 40 hours and I still am to find a great dialogue moment. So far, it seems no matter what I pick the dialogue is the same and I feel haven't given a single input to Ryder's personality.
Shepard was a blank page that you could write anything you want. Ryder is a blank page that you can write nothing at all.
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Post by fraggle on Apr 6, 2017 10:05:42 GMT
The problem is that ALL of the options are the goodie-two-shoes option. Emotional and casual were just the worst offenders. In my opinion at least. I don't mind this at all. It's becoming quite ridiculous to be able to play a goddamn psychopath and everybody still kissing your ass. You know, like Renegade Shepard. That was ridiculous. Renegade isn't as psychotic as people say it is. Maybe a pure Renegade, but mix it with Paragon and you have a perfectly grey character. I don't mind playing a goody-two-shoes at all, it was something I did in DA for a long time, but at least the choice to do something else was always there for people who wanted something to spice up their playthroughs. It doesn't even have to be "psycho" choices in MEA, just a little more aggressive and dominant.
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Post by mmoblitz on Apr 6, 2017 10:11:30 GMT
"The dialogue system is such an improvement over P/R" :dumb: Umm, No.
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Post by SofNascimento on Apr 6, 2017 10:13:12 GMT
I don't mind this at all. It's becoming quite ridiculous to be able to play a goddamn psychopath and everybody still kissing your ass. You know, like Renegade Shepard. That was ridiculous. Renegade isn't as psychotic as people say it is. Maybe a pure Renegade, but mix it with Paragon and you have a perfectly grey character. I don't mind playing a goody-two-shoes at all, it was something I did in DA for a long time, but at least the choice to do something else was always there for people who wanted something to spice up their playthroughs. It doesn't even have to be "psycho" choices in MEA, just a little more aggressive and dominant. Most people misunderstand what P/R system was all about. That's why so many people think decisions in the trilogy were right x wrong or good x evil. There were not. I can accept many other criticism about the system, but that one is just false. But people making wrong assessments is one thing, the problem is that Bioware did as well. And so they didn't understand why they were taking P/R out and so they made dialogue in Andromeda boring and without personality. Indeed, the best quote so far I've seen in the game is: "join the club, screws up started 600 years ago". The motto of the AI if you ask me.
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Post by Soulforge on Apr 6, 2017 10:14:32 GMT
I don't mind this at all. It's becoming quite ridiculous to be able to play a goddamn psychopath and everybody still kissing your ass. You know, like Renegade Shepard. That was ridiculous. Renegade isn't as psychotic as people say it is. Maybe a pure Renegade, but mix it with Paragon and you have a perfectly grey character. I don't mind playing a goody-two-shoes at all, it was something I did in DA for a long time, but at least the choice to do something else was always there for people who wanted something to spice up their playthroughs. It doesn't even have to be "psycho" choices in MEA, just a little more aggressive and dominant. Renegade varies so much. You can be threatening someone, making a pragmatic decision like shooting while some pyjak rants, or just randomly yell about how you won't be a puppet for the Asari. ME1 was probably the most psychotic renegade overall, but on the other hand you can choose to recruit Morinth so... I preferred mixing it up too, because some Paragon decisions are nauseatingly naive and make Shepard look like a moron.
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Post by mmoblitz on Apr 6, 2017 10:18:09 GMT
The problem is that ALL of the options are the goodie-two-shoes option. Emotional and casual were just the worst offenders. In my opinion at least. I don't mind this at all. It's becoming quite ridiculous to be able to play a goddamn psychopath and everybody still kissing your ass. You know, like Renegade Shepard. That was ridiculous. Or having to play a goodie-two-shoes who resembles a doormat that everybody walks all over. I swear I saw a "Safe Space" augmentation for his body armor.
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Post by robwolf666 on Apr 6, 2017 10:20:06 GMT
I have yet to see anyone speak about this, so i'd like to hear people's opinion about it.... It is a bit boring without the Paragon/Renegade system - I liked turning at least one of my characters in to a bit of a jerk, lol.
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Post by rasande on Apr 6, 2017 10:48:58 GMT
I never thought it was well implemented in ME games, it was just a "press this button to win the conversation game" and i don't miss it. I miss being able to be a bitch sometimes and the end result could've been more different depending on your attitude/choice but overall i don't miss the paragon/renegade thing as a system.
I much prefer the 4 way choices as an idea, though it could've been better implemented. I like that for instance somtimes the passionate/empathic choice would've been paragon sometimes and sometimes renegade in the original series, it's more nuanced.
As someone who pretty much always played Renegade because i couldn't stand Paragon Shep the only time i really wanted a renegade option was when Cora starts crying about not getting a promotion and loosing YOUR FUCKING FATHER to your FACE. I mean GOD, i fucking hate her.
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