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Post by Toyish Batphone on Aug 2, 2016 9:45:20 GMT
Greetings to all.
Between a ranged mage (pure ranged spellcaster instead of a Knight Enchanter or an Arcane Warrior) and a rogue archer, which one would you prefer to play as and why ? Also, lore-wise, I am curious who would win in a fight between a rogue archer and a ranged spellcaster ?
On the one hand, we have some cutscenes, the one I remember best is Dragon Age 2's Legacy DLC cutscene where Corypheus tries to cast a spell after the boss fight but gets interrupted over and over again by archer Hawke's arrows before apparently dying.
So it seems that a trained archer can fire arrows faster than a mage can cast complex spells. However, at the same time, we have spells that can be cast quickly with little animation. Rogues have stealth and evasion to dodge spells (Ring of Doubt is a unique item so it doesn't count) but mages have healing, barriers and wards.
So yeah I am curious to see your answers.
Have a nice day and cheers.
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Post by davesin on Aug 2, 2016 10:00:24 GMT
I can remember at least four situtations where rogues were better than mages:
1) First Hinterland cutscene - Harding and her guys eliminated all templars and mages in an area without any casualities 2) Archer Hawke vs Corypheus 3) Leliana vs Darkspawn mage in the Sacred Ashes trailer 4) Leliana vs two mages in Sebastian's companion quest in Act 3 (although she used daggers instead of her bow)
I would say that rogues tend to plan ahead and wait for the best opportunity to strike, while most mages simply rely on their raw magical power and want to destroy their enemies with their "biggest guns" as quickly as possible. Just look at Corypheus - the spell he was preparing might end Hawke for good, but he got constantly interrupted by arrows.
I would bet my money on rogue, unless: 1) the rogue is stupid and just charges on the mage without any preparation 2) the mage actually starts casting some defensive spells or tries to slow down the rogue before (s)he decide to kill him with a fireball
Of course, things are probably different in actuall gameplay, but that also depends on your character build and equipment.
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Post by lynroy on Aug 2, 2016 10:57:42 GMT
Ranged rogue because I find them more fun to play. Half my inquisitors are archers.
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MissOuJ
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Post by MissOuJ on Aug 2, 2016 12:52:00 GMT
If KE is ruled out, I'd personally rather go with a ranged rogue, because being able to move while attacking + Leaping Shot are really handy abilities, particularly in early game and on higher difficulties. KE and DW Assassin are my personal favourite picks, but a ranged Archer is really fun to play even as vanilla before you unlock any specialisations, although Riftmage is also OK and Necromancer's pretty body-splosions are fun too.
My main problem with archers in DAI is that I newer really fell in love with any of the specialisation options for archers - KE is a beast, even after all the nerfs, and ripping shit up with a DW Assassin is just tons of fun (although TBH both of them turn Nightmare into Easy Mode if you don't turn any Trials on) - but I'm not a huge fan of Artificer, even though I usually bring Varric everywhere, and I never really learned how to use Tempest effectively, aside from 1) Beeline for Thousand Cuts 2) Max Focus + Focus gain 3) Use TC as "I win" button against bosses. I know many people swear by the Tempest, though, so it's entirely possible that's just me not taking the time to learn about the flasks and how to properly build & play a Tempest Archer.
Lore-wise, in 1-on-1 fight, I'd bet against the archer, because mages in general have more protective abilities available to them (barriers in DAI, healing and other buffs in DAO and DA2), so IMO it would be easier for a mage to do some limited damage control + freeze the archer/set the archer on fire vs archer scoring a head-shot/crippling hit on the first try. But in general archers are not meant for 1-on-1 combat: they're supposed to work in larger units, and preferably with regular foot soldiers, whereas mages are supposed to only work alone or in smaller groups, lore-wise. So, even though mages might win in the terms of abilities / raw power alone, lore-wise the archers are probably going to win since they're more likely to be part of a military organisation and have more backup when they're attacking mages, who are more likely to be alone / in a small group.
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Post by Babar Guy on Aug 2, 2016 14:36:19 GMT
Ranged rogues make you feel like a god. Except in DAO.
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Post by Amburu on Aug 2, 2016 14:42:09 GMT
Welp actually i do BOTH Since da:o i've been on dual blades but due to computer performances i had to pick a more static option, so I went with archer, and then because it is so relevant to the lore and the romance (GUESS) I had to also go mage
I'm playing these gaemz for the story so heehhh
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Post by vertigomez on Aug 2, 2016 23:38:05 GMT
Well, only one of them can be a dwarf... *whistles*
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Post by phoray on Aug 3, 2016 8:14:14 GMT
I call ranged archer for DAI because they can move while fighting and mages can't. That's my only reason.
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Domakir
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Post by Domakir on Aug 3, 2016 10:25:46 GMT
Both. Though I prefer mages in DAI so I can say 'F* you Chantry your hero is a mage!'
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Post by Beerfish on Aug 3, 2016 19:19:33 GMT
Archers by a billion %
Spike trap, leaping shot, explosive shot....laugh all the way to Cabots tavern
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 20:39:08 GMT
Archer Rogue, because not only are they the underdog and snipers from a distance, they can quickly take advantage of a fight. Plus who says a Rogue fights fair? Cheat and play dirty.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 4, 2016 1:51:33 GMT
Both. Though I prefer mages in DAI so I can say 'F* you Chantry your hero is a mage!' Beautiful and terrifying in one. Well played.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 4, 2016 3:39:49 GMT
What about a mage who trains like a rogue? Dalish is a pretty good example of an archer mage.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 3:45:40 GMT
What about a mage who trains like a rogue? Dalish is a pretty good example of an archer mage. Dalish: It's a BOW! Krem: A bow with a giant crystal on top? Dalish: It's for aiming. Old Elven trick you wouldn't understand
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PhroX
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Post by PhroX on Aug 5, 2016 8:39:31 GMT
Well, my favourite would be an artificer archer, but given that they're a melee class to all intents and purposes (the bow is only used to fire off Leaping Shot at point blank range), I'm not sure how well they fit into the comparison.
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Toyish Batphone
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Aug 6, 2016 2:15:02 GMT
Well, my favourite would be an artificer archer, but given that they're a melee class to all intents and purposes (the bow is only used to fire off Leaping Shot at point blank range), I'm not sure how well they fit into the comparison. That's why you play as a Tempest Archer or an Assassin Archer. The whole point of an archer is to be far away from people and attack. Tempest and Assassin allow you to do that just fine.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 6, 2016 3:58:24 GMT
Ultimately, it may come down to skill. Depends if we're taking game mechanics into consideration. If it's a one on one, the mage might have a slight advantage if they've access to healing magic and is willing to conduct a battle of attrition on a rogue. The rogue would have to pick their chance to nail the mage fairly quickly. Now I am intrigued by what would happen if a Tempest duel wielding rogue tried to backstab a knight enchanter while caught in their field that slows enemies down.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 4:27:06 GMT
Ultimately, it may come down to skill. Depends if we're taking game mechanics into consideration. If it's a one on one, the mage might have a slight advantage if they've access to healing magic and is willing to conduct a battle of attrition on a rogue. The rogue would have to pick their chance to nail the mage fairly quickly. Now I am intrigued by what would happen if a Tempest duel wielding rogue tried to backstab a knight enchanter while caught in their field that slows enemies down. For a Tempest, I'd say they'd use flask of lightning (freezes time) and stealth.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 6, 2016 4:29:25 GMT
Ultimately, it may come down to skill. Depends if we're taking game mechanics into consideration. If it's a one on one, the mage might have a slight advantage if they've access to healing magic and is willing to conduct a battle of attrition on a rogue. The rogue would have to pick their chance to nail the mage fairly quickly. Now I am intrigued by what would happen if a Tempest duel wielding rogue tried to backstab a knight enchanter while caught in their field that slows enemies down. For a Tempest, I'd say they'd use flask of lightning (freezes time) and stealth. Too bad they don't allow for duels between teammates like in Borderlands 2. We'd have more concrete answers for sure.
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Post by PhroX on Aug 6, 2016 6:50:04 GMT
Well, my favourite would be an artificer archer, but given that they're a melee class to all intents and purposes (the bow is only used to fire off Leaping Shot at point blank range), I'm not sure how well they fit into the comparison. That's why you play as a Tempest Archer or an Assassin Archer. The whole point of an archer is to be far away from people and attack. Tempest and Assassin allow you to do that just fine. If I want to play a ranged class, yes, I'll play one of those. If I want to play the most fun class, well, I'll stick with the Artificer even if they aren't a proper archer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 19:26:12 GMT
I like both but I find archer is easier for avoiding pesky enemies. I also find my poor mage is sometimes right in the middle of the battle and not far away like she should be.
Lore-wise? I'd say if the spellcaster doesn't see the arrow and get a barrier up in time then that's it for them. Rogues can hide in the shadows.
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Post by LFS on Aug 6, 2016 19:41:31 GMT
Ranged rogue all the way. I feel like a complete clutz with spellcasters, especially when it comes to planting AoE spells. Archer is much more fun and fluid for me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 21:36:35 GMT
For a Tempest, I'd say they'd use flask of lightning (freezes time) and stealth. Too bad they don't allow for duels between teammates like in Borderlands 2. We'd have more concrete answers for sure. Yeah, that would've been nice to have a sparring option. I was just throwing an idea on what a Tempest could do in a fight against a Knight Enchanter.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 7, 2016 2:32:10 GMT
Too bad they don't allow for duels between teammates like in Borderlands 2. We'd have more concrete answers for sure. Yeah, that would've been nice to have a sparring option. I was just throwing an idea on what a Tempest could do in a fight against a Knight Enchanter. All the rogue has to do is stay out of range and let the knight enchanter's shields dissipate. Fade step is a problem but since it has a longer cooldown than the rogue's evade, the odds seem stacked in their favor. Trouble is with the targeting spells, instant glyphs and shields. I would be curious to see the Focus abilities in action since the Tempest outstrips knight enchanter in damage but then, KE was meant for versatility and endurance than high damage. Now a Rift mage, I wonder about cooldowns and how obnoxious it'd be as a spamming class. For laughs, I want to watch and see whether a Knight Enchanter or Champion would outlast the other
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 10, 2016 14:41:56 GMT
Before DAI my favourite rogue class was dual wielder. However, I really didn't get on with the movement mechanics of DAI that invariably left my dual wielder slashing at thin air. So I went with archer instead and I must admit it became my favourite class. Don't get me wrong, I love Knight Enchanter and to be able to take down a dragon virtually single handed was awesome, but the archer was more versatile. Essentially you never have to get into a one on one with a mage, because you simply go into stealth, sneak up to the correct distance and then one shot them. This means they never even have a chance to raise their barriers. Then you can do a leaping shot to avoid being hit by any companions of the mage and use various other abilities to take down their barriers quickly, before doing the killer shot on the next one. I went with assassin as my specialism. The archer was pretty effective against dragons too and it helps that you can keep firing on the move so when the dragon is pulling you in with its wing buffet, you just keep on shooting.
These comments only really apply to DAI. Back in Origins I would definitely go for a mage because of the way the area effect spells worked that allowed you to take out multiple enemies from a distance, plus in that game the Arcane Warrior allowed you to use heavy armour and all types of weapons on the basis of your magic score. Whereas in DA2 my dual wielder rogue shadow assassin took the prize for taking out the Arishok the quickest, whilst taking the least amount of damage. The other disadvantage of being an archer in DAI is that you definitely can't do it one handed, whereas a Knight Enchanter can still cast spells.
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