blaw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by blaw on Apr 6, 2017 18:37:06 GMT
I am now going to complain about an issue that pisses me off more than the whole animations controversy: The soundtrack, its implementation in the game and Biowares obvious ignorance to the important aspects of a good soundtrack.
Let's begin with the scoring for important cutscenes: In the Trilogy there are a bunch of tracks unique to certain important cinematic moments. Examples: Victory, from the wreckage, an end once and for all, I'm proud of you, leaving earth, the Normandy reborn, Betrayal, the lazarus project, jump drive, a cerberus agent, the fleets arrive.... I probably missed some but all of these tracks you will hear just once in the game. Scoring for major cutscenes made those moments stand out, memorable and if the music is right you can manipulate your players/audience to feel certain emotions.
Let's see how MEA handles this: Not a single scene has its own unique track. I stopped counting how many times I heard “A better beginning” and “A trail of hope” during important moments. Don't get me wrong, these two tunes are fantastic but criminally overused.
Storytelling with music
When Jack Wall was scoring for ME1 he was aware of the plotpoint that involves the citadel. He made sure to include some subtle dissonances in “the presidium” and especially “the wards”, so you get the feeling that there is something wrong underneath the facade. You might call it musical foreshadowing. I think that is pure genius. I don't even have to tell you that there isn't something like that in Andromeda. The Nexus doesn't even have a music. The citadel has TWO unique tunes. What a fucking oversight.
Character/Locations Themes:
So let see: For ME2 every single companion got its own soundtrack, not just a motive, every loyalty mission has been uniquely scored by Jack Wall, Sam Hulick and the other composers. You can close your eyes and know just by the soundtrack what loyalty mission you are playing. The Illusive Man is important, he needs his own theme, Sovereign is important, he needs his own theme, Saren is important, he needs his own needs. And to hear Sarens Theme during the mission failure screen is another good example of storytelling with music. No such thing in Andromeda.
There are also unique tracks to important locations: Feros, Noveria, Palaven... Granted those kind of tunes are also present on the MEA soundtrack but do me a favor listen to one areal theme of the trilogy and then try to sing or hum one of the motives. I think you will succeed. Try that with MEAs Soundtrack and you will see what the problem is with the soundtrack.
Even worse there are so many locations and moments without music, moments that scream for a nice authentic sci fi track.
Say what you will about Casey Hudson but he was experienced director who may screw up occasionally but the following excerpt from a Jack Wall interview shows that Andromeda desperately needed someone like him:
One of your latest projects is Mass Effect. How challenging was it for you to find the right sound for this futuristic title? Are there any cues/musical passages that you are especially proud of? Thank you! I love Mass Effect. It’s such a unique title and I’m so proud to have been the franchise composer for both the first one and this latest one. Casey Hudson, the director of the game, really drove the vision for what the score was to become. I have to give him props for that. He wanted that 80’s sci-fi sound recalling Bladerunner and various other scores from Tangerine Dream (Risky Business) and then we pulled in some other sci-fi references like the score to the remake of Solaris and popular movie themes from Tangerine Dream. We wanted the feeling of these influences while striving for something unique and new.
Casey Hudson and the leads of the trilogy knew about the importance of a good soundtrack. I don't blame John Paesano for this. Changes are that he just didn't know what a AAA game needs in terms of soundtrack. The leads of Andromeda should have made that clear to him. They didn't or even worse, they had no idea themselves what a probably done soundtrack for a massive game like MEA requires.
To wrap it up, some words to the sounddesigners/engineers/whatever. The music and the ingame sounds are often in conflict which each other. Meaning certain frequencies are cut off. You need to master the tracks according to their intended use. Play with the EQ until it is acceptable. I can't believe that I need to tell that to professionals. It is almost embarrassing.
And no I am not one of those people who bitch about every minor aspect of the game. I liked the game. 7.5/10 for me
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Post by suikoden on Apr 6, 2017 18:40:35 GMT
Face is tired lady could have used her own soundtrack.
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 6, 2017 18:42:14 GMT
Since I'm in the middle of my first NieR Automata play through right now... oh so much agreed.
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blaw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by blaw on Apr 6, 2017 19:04:28 GMT
Face is tired lady could have used her own soundtrack. I hope Bioware hires me to compose a lullaby for her.
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Post by cszoltan on Apr 6, 2017 19:26:08 GMT
Completely agree. MEA soundtrack is a huge disappointment, and its implementation might be even worse.
When I'm playing the main story missions I actually turn off the ingame music and just listen to a MET playlist instead.
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Post by sabu on Apr 6, 2017 19:28:37 GMT
I recognized some minor improvements to the mix since the new patch. But far from done and well,it doesnt help there is not the actual music like you mentioned. If the nexus modding community would come up with a modding tool which can also extract/replace audio as well (its too much to hope for in modding the mixing tools in the engine itself unfortenetly ), I will mod the audio of the game as side hobby for a long time ^^
And yes Nier`s ost is absolutely amazing.
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blaw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by blaw on Apr 6, 2017 19:55:44 GMT
Completely agree. MEA soundtrack is a huge disappointment, and its implementation might be even worse. When I'm playing the main story missions I actually turn off the ingame music and just listen to a MET playlist instead. Why didn't I think of that.
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 6, 2017 19:59:56 GMT
Since I'm in the middle of my first NieR Automata play through right now... oh so much agreed. I hear the second and third play throughs are even better. Game is apparently a masterpiece.
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Post by SofNascimento on Apr 6, 2017 20:04:27 GMT
Andromeda has a lot of failures.
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 6, 2017 20:05:46 GMT
Completely agree. MEA soundtrack is a huge disappointment, and its implementation might be even worse. When I'm playing the main story missions I actually turn off the ingame music and just listen to a MET playlist instead. I wouldn't say a huge disappointment. The music itself is amazing. Voeld's music is probably my favorite, and the fighting music on Elaadin sounds like something from the Dark Knight. The galaxy map music is a big upgrade and the title screen music that used throughout is also one of my favorite soundtracks out of all the games. The issue is the implementation. I personally turned down the sfx volume so the music would stand out more when it's playing. I think the biggest need is music playing in the Nexus, Aya, and Kadara Port. And have maybe music specific to the outposts to enhance the mood there.
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 6, 2017 20:12:58 GMT
Since I'm in the middle of my first NieR Automata play through right now... oh so much agreed. I hear the second and third play throughs are even better. Game is apparently a masterpiece. Possible... I enjoy it a lot. The music is also very good and perfectly supplements the story, gameplay and mood... except when you don't like vocals in your ambiance, then it might get annoying.
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Post by sil on Apr 6, 2017 20:18:38 GMT
I wouldn't say a huge disappointment. The music itself is amazing. Voeld's music is probably my favorite, and the fighting music on Elaadin sounds like something from the Dark Knight. Shame it doesn't sound like something from Mass Effect.
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Post by Madflavor on Apr 6, 2017 20:19:58 GMT
The fact that it was an intentional design decision to not have background music play when visiting hubs and exploration, makes me really put the qualification of the new team into question. I mean sure, the writing sucks, but writing is very subjective, and the writers probably thought they were doing a good job. But actually thinking a MASS EFFECT game doesn't need music in hubs and exploration, was a retarded decision on their part.
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Post by blaw on Apr 6, 2017 20:23:24 GMT
The fact that it was an intentional design decision to not have background music play when visiting hubs and exploration, makes me really put the qualification of the new team into question. I mean sure, the writing sucks, but writing is very subjective, and the writers probably thought they were doing a good job. But actually thinking a MASS EFFECT game doesn't need music in hubs and exploration, was a retarded decision on their part. I am also wondering how much damaged that did to immersion.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 6, 2017 20:24:49 GMT
Casey Hudson's only, and I repeat, ONLY fault was his egotistical ideas about what the plot itself should be when the writers had developed it away from his original vision because he let them run with their ideas, but he was a fantastic and great kind of director. He knew how to make things feel stylistically appropriate and he was excellent at big-picture thinking for the overall impression a game would give its player, and if you read the Final Hours of Mass Effect, while he turned misguided and a tad self-absorbed during the end of ME3's production, the Behind The Scenes stuff from his ideas for ME1 impressed me. He was totally passionate and innovative about what he wanted the series to be and I guarantee you without him the plot of ME1 would've probably just been Drew's KOTOR 1.5 instead (even so, there are still plenty of KOTOR traces).
I agree about the music too. IMO they should just re-hire Jack Wall, give him his money which is probably the issue that hasn't been said outloud here, and let him be the composer-director for the entire game. There's a reason why ME2 turned out as well as it did in terms of presentation and audio-design. Anyone who would say ME3 does a better job with its musical design are not paying attention IMO. (that said, haven't seen people do that yet)
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 6, 2017 20:32:16 GMT
I wouldn't say a huge disappointment. The music itself is amazing. Voeld's music is probably my favorite, and the fighting music on Elaadin sounds like something from the Dark Knight. Shame it doesn't sound like something from Mass Effect. Most of it does. The music especially when you are down in the Vaults feels like Mass Effect.
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Post by vallem on Apr 6, 2017 20:41:55 GMT
While ME:A's music on its own is not bad and there are a few tracks that I do like, none of the musical scores have much of an impact and the lack of storytelling by soundtrack is glaringly obvious. Every good composer knows just how much music does to create a story and it does so much to add to the emotion one is supposed to feel when watching a cutscene, approach certain parts during a quest, city hubs ect. There's a big lack of specific themes to characters, environment and to the romance which could have elevated the whole game if it had been put into place.
There is a reason why we remember certain tracks and scenes from MET and that is precisely because the music was in place. It was one of the things I noticed the most during my playthrough and something that is sorely missing from the game. Heck, all the games from the MET series and DA series had this in place and although ME:A wanted to move away from the OT and go for a different feel soundtrack wise, it was not a good choice to do it to such an extent that the music is neither memorable or important. It all feels very generalised and flat.
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blaw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by blaw on Apr 6, 2017 20:58:03 GMT
While ME:A's music on it's own is not bad and there are a few tracks that I do like, none of the musical scores have much of an impact and the lack of storytelling by soundtrack is glaringly obvious. Every good composer knows just how much music does to create a story and it does so much to add to the emotion one is supposed to feel when watching a cutscene, approach certain parts during a quest, city hubs ect. There's a big lack of specific themes to characters, environment and to the romance which could have elevated the whole game if it had been put into place. There is a reason why we remember certain tracks and scenes from MET and that is precisely because the music was in place. It was one of the things I noticed the most during my playthrough and something that is sorely missing from the game. Heck, all the games from the MET series and DA series had this in place and although ME:A wanted to move away from the OT and go for a different feel soundtrack wise, it was not a good choice to do it to such an extent that the music is neither memorable or important. It all feels very generalised and flat. Now that you mentioned romance. The OT composers wrote a new love theme for every single game. There is even music during the romance scene in Andromeda. If you listen closely you hear some "Flächensound" (sorry don't know the english word, sounds/chords that aren't rhythmic and move slowly or barely at all). But that is something a 8 year old could do after a few keyboard lessons.
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Post by cszoltan on Apr 6, 2017 21:14:52 GMT
Completely agree. MEA soundtrack is a huge disappointment, and its implementation might be even worse. When I'm playing the main story missions I actually turn off the ingame music and just listen to a MET playlist instead. I wouldn't say a huge disappointment. The music itself is amazing. Voeld's music is probably my favorite, and the fighting music on Elaadin sounds like something from the Dark Knight. The galaxy map music is a big upgrade and the title screen music that used throughout is also one of my favorite soundtracks out of all the games. The issue is the implementation. I personally turned down the sfx volume so the music would stand out more when it's playing. I think the biggest need is music playing in the Nexus, Aya, and Kadara Port. And have maybe music specific to the outposts to enhance the mood there. I disagree. I have the soundtrack from the Delux edition, and listening to it makes me feel absolutely nothing. They aren't even very melodic. Leaving Earth, The Cerberus Plot, The End Run etc even without the context of their scenes are fantastic songs that I like listening to. I can't say the same about a single MEA track.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: DinAnshiral
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Post by vallem on Apr 6, 2017 21:22:31 GMT
While ME:A's music on it's own is not bad and there are a few tracks that I do like, none of the musical scores have much of an impact and the lack of storytelling by soundtrack is glaringly obvious. Every good composer knows just how much music does to create a story and it does so much to add to the emotion one is supposed to feel when watching a cutscene, approach certain parts during a quest, city hubs ect. There's a big lack of specific themes to characters, environment and to the romance which could have elevated the whole game if it had been put into place. There is a reason why we remember certain tracks and scenes from MET and that is precisely because the music was in place. It was one of the things I noticed the most during my playthrough and something that is sorely missing from the game. Heck, all the games from the MET series and DA series had this in place and although ME:A wanted to move away from the OT and go for a different feel soundtrack wise, it was not a good choice to do it to such an extent that the music is neither memorable or important. It all feels very generalised and flat. Now that you mentioned romance. The OT composers wrote a new love theme for every single game. There is even music during the romance scene in Andromeda. If you listen closely you hear some "Flächensound" (sorry don't know the english word, sounds/chords that aren't rhythmic and move slowly or barely at all). But that is something a 8 year old could do after a few keyboard lessons. Yup. I have noticed that there is music playing in the background of the romance scenes, but in the soundtrack there's no sole theme for the romance and the music that does play isn't all that memorable. You barely even notice that there's any music playing at all. I don't mind the sound, but it lacks the impact that the OT had for their themes. It doesn't stick with you, which is such a shame because it would have made the scenes so much better. All in all, the ME:A soundtrack is incredibly underwhelming and falls flat. The shift in composers can sometimes be a good thing, like Trevor Morris for DAI as opposed to Inon Zur. But for ME:A the switch was an unfortunate one as the composer fails to make any mark on the game at all. I think the only place where I actually noticed the soundtrack at all was when driving around on H-047c. I really hope that there's a vast improvement for the next game.
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Post by capn233 on Apr 6, 2017 22:36:17 GMT
One of the things I found odd about the music in MEA is the bit that seems to play most of the time I am talking to my squad on Tempest. I half expect someone with a knife to jump out from behind and stab one of us.
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