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Post by Cerberusx32 on Apr 8, 2017 19:22:17 GMT
So if you remember, Sara Ryder is one minute older the Scott Ryder. Well technically since Scott got our of cryo first he is now the older sibling. He started aging once he was out of cryo, while Sara was still in cryo and her aging was at a standstill because of it.
The amount of time between Scott being out of cryo and Sars still being in cryo is a few hours if you think about it. So therefore Scott Ryder is now the older brother.
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 8, 2017 19:35:37 GMT
Actually, they're still the same age. Cryo only halted the effects of aging. It will definitely require calculations to be made for things that are based off of age risk rise for those who weren't born in the Andromeda galaxy. You were born on X date, put into cryo on Y date, taken out of cryo into Z date, you are effective # years old.
And even if it did, it would only be for the case for players who play Scott instead of Sara.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 20:58:22 GMT
That's... actually, a very good point. But that's assuming they both got into cryo at the same time, and not hours apart. They most likely did, so there s hould be a dialogue option for this.
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Post by jamiecotc on Apr 8, 2017 21:20:56 GMT
But Sara got out first in my game, so she's still technically older.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 21:34:02 GMT
Good point.
They probably should adjust everyone's DOB to account for the time spent in stasis.
The opening screen says Day 0, Hour 0 - so maybe they're starting their timekeeping in Andromeda at 0 instead of continuing with Milky Way time.
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 8, 2017 21:42:18 GMT
Good point. They probably should adjust everyone's DOB to account for the time spent in stasis. The opening screen says Day 0, Hour 0 - so maybe they're starting their timekeeping in Andromeda at 0 instead of continuing with Milky Way time. You can't change your DOB. Cryo doesn't effect your actual age. It only changes the effective age. Legally Sara is still the older twin despite Scott coming out of cryo first if Scott is chosen as the player character.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 8, 2017 21:51:01 GMT
No way is combaboy older.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 22:51:44 GMT
Good point. They probably should adjust everyone's DOB to account for the time spent in stasis. The opening screen says Day 0, Hour 0 - so maybe they're starting their timekeeping in Andromeda at 0 instead of continuing with Milky Way time. You can't change your DOB. Says who? According to whose laws? Milky Way laws? Ai laws? The Andromeda Galactic Commission's Laws? The Official Heleus Cluster Hierarchy? I'd expect the official records will be modified to reflect either an adjusted DOB or effective DOB for each individual, depending on the amount of time spent in stasis. Also, unless they plan to continue with MW time, they'll need to be adjusted to Andromeda time.
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 8, 2017 23:08:20 GMT
You can't change your DOB. Says who? According to whose laws? Milky Way laws? Ai laws? The Andromeda Galactic Commission's Laws? The Official Heleus Cluster Hierarchy? I'd expect the official records will be modified to reflect either an adjusted DOB or effective DOB for each individual, depending on the amount of time spent in stasis. Also, unless they plan to continue with MW time, they'll need to be adjusted to Andromeda time. You can't change the day you were born. People are born in a specific year, in a specific month, on a specific day, at a specific hour, at a specific minute, and at a specific second. Going into cryo doesn't change those times. It changes the person's effective age. Meaning that if that they were 5 years from going into menopause, they'd still be 5 years from going into menopause. Because that's an an effect of aging. It happens after we've aged for so long. Cryo halts the aging process. They will likely just work off of effective age for those who were born in the Milky Way. So Sara is still technically the older twin no matter who gets revived first, but effectively it's Scott if he's revived first if you believe their effective ages going into cryo had Sara at one minute older.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 23:48:50 GMT
Says who? According to whose laws? Milky Way laws? Ai laws? The Andromeda Galactic Commission's Laws? The Official Heleus Cluster Hierarchy? I'd expect the official records will be modified to reflect either an adjusted DOB or effective DOB for each individual, depending on the amount of time spent in stasis. Also, unless they plan to continue with MW time, they'll need to be adjusted to Andromeda time. You can't change the day you were born. People are born in a specific year, in a specific month, on a specific day, at a specific hour, at a specific minute, and at a specific second. Going into cryo doesn't change those times. They can do whatever they damn well please. You didn't address the points I raised. Laws as they apply to your former jurisdiction on your home planet do not apply to colonists from any other planet, or the Ai as a whole. Calendar dates / times as they apply to your jurisdiction on your home planet may not apply on any other world or in any other galaxy. Outside of the Ai, there is no other authority in Andromeda setting rules with which they must comply. Outside of the Ai, there is no other organization in Andromeda that would have any records of them. We don't yet know what calendar/timekeeping will be applied in Andromeda, only that it started on Day 0, Hour 0. Timekeeping as we know it is based on the 24-hour day, because that's how long it takes the earth to make a full rotation. Years consist of 365 days, because that's how long it takes the earth to revolve around its sun. Without the earth's movements as a reference, the calendar may look very different. Which is pretty much what I said. Technically, it depends on how you state the age difference. It will always be correct to say that Sara was born before Scott. If the DOBs are adjusted to an effective age - or an effective age is independently introduced - then it would be correct to state that Scott's effective age is older than Sara's.
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 9, 2017 0:38:51 GMT
You can't change the day you were born. People are born in a specific year, in a specific month, on a specific day, at a specific hour, at a specific minute, and at a specific second. Going into cryo doesn't change those times. They can do whatever they damn well please. You didn't address the points I raised. Laws as they apply to your former jurisdiction on your home planet do not apply to colonists from any other planet, or the Ai as a whole. Calendar dates / times as they apply to your jurisdiction on your home planet may not apply on any other world or in any other galaxy. Outside of the Ai, there is no other authority in Andromeda setting rules with which they must comply. Outside of the Ai, there is no other organization in Andromeda that would have any records of them. We don't yet know what calendar/timekeeping will be applied in Andromeda, only that it started on Day 0, Hour 0. Timekeeping as we know it is based on the 24-hour day, because that's how long it takes the earth to make a full rotation. Years consist of 365 days, because that's how long it takes the earth to revolve around its sun. Without the earth's movements as a reference, the calendar may look very different. Which is pretty much what I said. Technically, it depends on how you state the age difference. It will always be correct to say that Sara was born before Scott. If the DOBs are adjusted to an effective age - or an effective age is independently introduced - then it would be correct to state that Scott's effective age is older than Sara's. Your date of birth is not determined by a law. I can't give you what doesn't exist. Depending on the location the date of birth may be recorded differently according to that place's calendar, but it doesn't change your date of birth. But if Shepard had gone with the intiative is DOB would still be noted as April 11, 2154 CE. Because that's when Shepard was born. It doesn't magically become April 11, 2754 just because he got into a cryo pod. It wouldn't make much logical sense to say Shepard was born in 2754, but was helping with the Eden Prime War which occurred in 2183. Or did that war suddenly happen in 2783? The day someone is born is an event just as much as the start or end of the Eden Prime War was. They will likely just say that the day the Nexus crew came out of cryo is January 1, 0 AI, where AI is Andromeda Initiative or some other letter combination that works to distinguish between discussing pre and post cryo. They will likely just use the Milky Way documentation on medical records and the day you went into cryo. Except for maybe the Salarians, being off on "effective" age isn't that huge of a deal as long as it's not ridiculously long. Life styles will change effective ages. Because certain habits extend and others reduce expected life span. And even then, aging doesn't happen on specific schedules - it's why anything age related is typically given by a range.
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Post by Doominike on Apr 9, 2017 1:07:14 GMT
So related question, do you (general you, everyone can answer) consider the twins 23 or 657 ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 1:31:08 GMT
They can do whatever they damn well please. You didn't address the points I raised. Laws as they apply to your former jurisdiction on your home planet do not apply to colonists from any other planet, or the Ai as a whole. Calendar dates / times as they apply to your jurisdiction on your home planet may not apply on any other world or in any other galaxy. Outside of the Ai, there is no other authority in Andromeda setting rules with which they must comply. Outside of the Ai, there is no other organization in Andromeda that would have any records of them. We don't yet know what calendar/timekeeping will be applied in Andromeda, only that it started on Day 0, Hour 0. Timekeeping as we know it is based on the 24-hour day, because that's how long it takes the earth to make a full rotation. Years consist of 365 days, because that's how long it takes the earth to revolve around its sun. Without the earth's movements as a reference, the calendar may look very different. Which is pretty much what I said. Technically, it depends on how you state the age difference. It will always be correct to say that Sara was born before Scott. If the DOBs are adjusted to an effective age - or an effective age is independently introduced - then it would be correct to state that Scott's effective age is older than Sara's. Your date of birth is not determined by a law. But the way that information is recorded, reported, etc. is determined by law. You brought legalities into the discussion in your initial response to me: And no, you can't change the actual date that something occurred, but you can adjust how it is recorded. We have no pertinent information on how any applicable law treats periods of stasis. Or they might have established Day 1 as the date the Nexus left the Milky Way. And they might not use months as we know them in their calendars at all. People are coming out of cryo at different times, and I would guess they did not all go into cryo at the same time. Some go in and out of cryo. Thus, their effective ages should be individually adjusted to reflect the amount of time they individually spent in cryo. If Scott spends less time in cryo than Sara, his effective age could show him as the elder of the two.
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 9, 2017 1:42:05 GMT
Your date of birth is not determined by a law. But the way that information is recorded, reported, etc. is determined by law. You brought legalities into the discussion in your initial response to me: And no, you can't change the actual date that something occurred, but you can adjust how it is recorded. We have no pertinent information on how any applicable law treats periods of stasis. Or they might have established Day 1 as the date the Nexus left the Milky Way. And they might not use months as we know them in their calendars at all. People are coming out of cryo at different times, and I would guess they did not all go into cryo at the same time. Some go in and out of cryo. Thus, their effective ages should be individually adjusted to reflect the amount of time they individually spent in cryo. If Scott spends less time in cryo than Sara, his effective age could show him as the elder of the two. But life style affects a person's effective age. Scott and Sara don't necessarily have effective ages 1 minute apart when they go into cryo. I can definitely see some Scott and Sara Ryders arguing over who is the older in universes where Scott woke up first. Given how they wouldn't be able to nail down an actual effective age for people (too many variables), it's just best to use their Milky Way legal birthdays as their birthdays and go from say May 4, 2184 CE to January 1, 0 AI on their calendars where January 1, 0 is the day the Nexus people started coming out of cryo. With a note on their calendars that technically 600 years pass between May 2, 2184 CE and January 1, 0 AI.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 1:51:38 GMT
But the way that information is recorded, reported, etc. is determined by law. You brought legalities into the discussion in your initial response to me: And no, you can't change the actual date that something occurred, but you can adjust how it is recorded. We have no pertinent information on how any applicable law treats periods of stasis. Or they might have established Day 1 as the date the Nexus left the Milky Way. And they might not use months as we know them in their calendars at all. People are coming out of cryo at different times, and I would guess they did not all go into cryo at the same time. Some go in and out of cryo. Thus, their effective ages should be individually adjusted to reflect the amount of time they individually spent in cryo. If Scott spends less time in cryo than Sara, his effective age could show him as the elder of the two. But life style affects a person's effective age. Scott and Sara don't necessarily have effective ages 1 minute apart when they go into cryo. I can definitely see some Scott and Sara Ryders arguing over who is the older in universes where Scott woke up first. Given how they wouldn't be able to nail down an actual effective age for people (too many variables), it's just best to use their Milky Way legal birthdays as their birthdays and go from say May 4, 2184 CE to January 1, 0 AI on their calendars where January 1, 0 is the day the Nexus people started coming out of cryo. With a note on their calendars that technically 600 years pass between May 2, 2184 CE and January 1, 0 AI. Yeah, I'm not interested in the lifestyle effective age stuff. I'm more interested in age as determined by the passage of time (chronological age), and the notion that even though the twins were born 656 years ago, the cryo preserved their bodies in (approximately?) the same state as they entered it 634 years ago, thus for all intents and purposes, they are 22.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 2:00:03 GMT
I find it hilarious that being the older twin is so important to so many people. The question of what is considered older or younger is absurd to me because a twin could born before the other and still be younger, if shit happens with daylight saving time. This is a huge mess. Also, unless I screwed up with my biology knowledge, birth doesn't mark the beginning of the biological aging process of an individual per se, conception does, and since the Ryders are fraternal twins, you would have to know which one had their egg fertilized first. Now, this is already ridiculous at this point. Sara is still the older twin legally, of course, her registered DOB marks her earlier than Scott, she came into the world first, but if Scott wakes up first in Andromeda, he will inevitably be biologically older than her. So, in the end, older and younger will be decide on what you consider to be the determinant factor: How long has someone been out in the world, or how much she/he has aged. Am I wrong? The traveling twin question: If you (the younger one) stay or Earth and your older twin goes into space in a high-speed rocket and later returns home to find that you aged a lot more than them, who is older? It's too late, I better get some sleep. :DD:
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Post by kino on Apr 9, 2017 2:02:05 GMT
Kinda depends on which Ryder twin you play, yeah?
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 9, 2017 2:07:09 GMT
But life style affects a person's effective age. Scott and Sara don't necessarily have effective ages 1 minute apart when they go into cryo. I can definitely see some Scott and Sara Ryders arguing over who is the older in universes where Scott woke up first. Given how they wouldn't be able to nail down an actual effective age for people (too many variables), it's just best to use their Milky Way legal birthdays as their birthdays and go from say May 4, 2184 CE to January 1, 0 AI on their calendars where January 1, 0 is the day the Nexus people started coming out of cryo. With a note on their calendars that technically 600 years pass between May 2, 2184 CE and January 1, 0 AI. Yeah, I don't buy into the lifestyle effective age stuff. I'm more interested in age as determined by the passage of time, and the notion that even though the twins were born 656 years ago, the cryo preserved their bodies in (approximately?) the same state as they entered it 634 years ago, thus for all intents and purposes, they are 22. I get that for all intents and purposes they are 22, but Sara will always be the older sibling. Bad habits mean you are effectively older, people with good habits are effectively younger. It's a lot less work to just start a new calendar and have it start the day after people entered cryo and have that date be the day the Nexus people started coming out of cryo. With notation that there were 634 years, 3 months, 15 days spent in cryo. And short of extreme passing of time (like way more than the 14 months between Nexus and Hyperion arrivals) for the non-Salarians, there isn't much difference medically. Though specific day of coming out of cryo is written down in case a more precise age is required.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 2:16:51 GMT
Sara is still the older twin legally, of course, her registered DOB marks her earlier than Scott, but if Scott wakes up first in Andromeda, he will inevitably be biologically older than her. Am I wrong? Well - Sara will always be chronologically older. The whole cryo thing isn't easy to discuss - lol. You're technically still alive, but your bodily processes have been slowed tremendously. I don't actually care which twin is older - I just find it interesting to ponder this stuff.
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Post by Cerberusx32 on Apr 10, 2017 6:27:02 GMT
I make my original post. Leave it let it fester and then come back to see what happened. Love the points everyone made.
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Post by Rascoth on Apr 10, 2017 7:03:19 GMT
This topic... Reminds me of exchange you can hear on Hyperion
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 10, 2017 7:24:53 GMT
But Sara got out first in my game, so she's still technically older. This. But yes, whoever is the protagonist is older.
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Post by jamiecotc on Apr 10, 2017 7:40:16 GMT
But Sara got out first in my game, so she's still technically older. This. But yes, whoever is the protagonist is older. I guess it wouldn't be Mass Effect without an argument over the age of the protagonist.
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