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Post by formerfiend on Apr 25, 2017 17:55:23 GMT
Personally I think that Spirit Healer(despite Bioware's war on healing), Spirit Warrior, and Bard would have all been appropriate options given the story involved the fade ripping open and also delving into international politics. Since they came up with two new rogue specialties I would have liked to see a new one that could be the rogue equivalent to Spirit Healer and Spirit Warrior, which I argue would have been far more appropriate a specialization for Cole than assassin, which was just lazy. Spirit thief? Kind of a vampiric spec where the rogue leeches life energy to boost their own skills? Kind of a self buff enemy debuff thing. It's funny, I've talked about the idea of their being a rogue spirit healer/warrior equivalent for a while in the sense that it's a rogue who's abilities are being enhanced by a spirit possessing them or influencing them on some level, but I've never really given much thought into exactly what that would be, mechanically. That idea is as good as any I've heard.
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Post by Rascoth on Apr 25, 2017 18:06:35 GMT
Now that I think about it... Wouldn't Shadow fit Cole better?
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Post by azarhal on Apr 25, 2017 18:07:41 GMT
Honestly, the thing that bothered me most about the specializations in DAI is that they just didn't seem to fit with many of the followers, with perhaps the most glaring of all being Cassandra with the templar spec. She specifically tells you that her abilities are not like a templar's. I also thought the loss of Varric's unique Bianca spec from DA2 was a great shame. If they were going to have the specs be taught be a special NPC, I don't see why they didn't just have each follower with their own unique spec, as they had in DA2; I quite like that design. I'll assume it was just done for lack of time, but it's unfortunate. Her abilities are not like templars, meaning: they don't need lyrium, not that techniques are different per se. She even has conversation with Solas which is entirely about how her and templar abilities are basically the same in terms of what they do. Solas: Your abilities are remarkable, Seeker. It is fascinating to see how you and the templars negate magic. Cassandra: Have you never encountered templars before? Solas: Only at a distance. I am an apostate, after all. Cassandra: And they never caught you even once? Solas: I am a very careful apostate. Cassandra: What is it like when templars nullify magic, Solas? Solas: It is as though you are drawing upon the world around us. Mages draw forth the essence of the fade, and use that essence to shape reality. Cassandra: And our powers drive it back, making this world harder to affect? Solas: In a manner of speaking. You reinforce reality so it's less mutable. The fade has nowhere to gain a foothold, and the magic disperses. Cassandra: No one has ever accused me of reinforcing reality before. Solas: You are a seeker of truth. Those conversations are about Templars and negating magic. Seekers can negate magic without taking lyrium, but they also have other abilities that Templars do not have. The Templar spec in the game isn't much about negating magic...it's mostly anti-demons. In fact, Cassandra is holding a Checkov's Gun, we haven't seen her use her unique ability.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 25, 2017 18:31:09 GMT
Her abilities are not like templars, meaning: they don't need lyrium, not that techniques are different per se. She even has conversation with Solas which is entirely about how her and templar abilities are basically the same in terms of what they do. Solas: Your abilities are remarkable, Seeker. It is fascinating to see how you and the templars negate magic. Cassandra: Have you never encountered templars before? Solas: Only at a distance. I am an apostate, after all. Cassandra: And they never caught you even once? Solas: I am a very careful apostate. Cassandra: What is it like when templars nullify magic, Solas? Solas: It is as though you are drawing upon the world around us. Mages draw forth the essence of the fade, and use that essence to shape reality. Cassandra: And our powers drive it back, making this world harder to affect? Solas: In a manner of speaking. You reinforce reality so it's less mutable. The fade has nowhere to gain a foothold, and the magic disperses. Cassandra: No one has ever accused me of reinforcing reality before. Solas: You are a seeker of truth. Those conversations are about Templars and negating magic. Seekers can negate magic without taking lyrium, but they also have other abilities that Templars do not have. The Templar spec in the game isn't much about negating magic...it's mostly anti-demons. In fact, Cassandra is holding a Checkov's Gun, we haven't seen her use her unique ability. She has unique abilities that don't necessarily help her fight on the field, hence we don't see them. The other reason we likely don't see them is probably the same reason we don't see Solas enter the minds of enemies and killing them or hims spying on minds of sleeping people - principles. Knowing Cassandra's character, I doubt she would ever use her ability to light lyrium in opponent's blood on fire or basically mind-control mages frivolously.
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formerfiend
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 25, 2017 18:35:54 GMT
Now that I think about it... Wouldn't Shadow fit Cole better? Yes. Yes it would.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 25, 2017 18:36:46 GMT
Those conversations are about Templars and negating magic. Seekers can negate magic without taking lyrium, but they also have other abilities that Templars do not have. The Templar spec in the game isn't much about negating magic...it's mostly anti-demons. In fact, Cassandra is holding a Checkov's Gun, we haven't seen her use her unique ability. She has unique abilities that don't necessarily help her fight on the field, hence we don't see them. The other reason we likely don't see them is probably the same reason we don't see Solas enter the minds of enemies and killing them or hims spying on minds of sleeping people - principles. Knowing Cassandra's character, I doubt she would ever use her ability to light lyrium in opponent's blood on fire or basically mind-control mages frivolously. We don't see these abilities rather because the Inquisition's talents are boring. I miss the companions' unique abilities.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 18:37:50 GMT
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Post by themikefest on Apr 25, 2017 18:40:20 GMT
knight enchanter and arcane warrior
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 25, 2017 18:45:04 GMT
Those conversations are about Templars and negating magic. Seekers can negate magic without taking lyrium, but they also have other abilities that Templars do not have. The Templar spec in the game isn't much about negating magic...it's mostly anti-demons. In fact, Cassandra is holding a Checkov's Gun, we haven't seen her use her unique ability. She has unique abilities that don't necessarily help her fight on the field, hence we don't see them. The other reason we likely don't see them is probably the same reason we don't see Solas enter the minds of enemies and killing them or hims spying on minds of sleeping people - principles. Knowing Cassandra's character, I doubt she would ever use her ability to light lyrium in opponent's blood on fire or basically mind-control mages frivolously. Could have helped with those Venatori spellbinders, or Alexius, or Erimond, or any of the other mage encounters. Just sayin'.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 25, 2017 18:48:40 GMT
She has unique abilities that don't necessarily help her fight on the field, hence we don't see them. The other reason we likely don't see them is probably the same reason we don't see Solas enter the minds of enemies and killing them or hims spying on minds of sleeping people - principles. Knowing Cassandra's character, I doubt she would ever use her ability to light lyrium in opponent's blood on fire or basically mind-control mages frivolously. Could have helped with those Venatori spellbinders, or Alexius, or Erimond, or any of the other mage encounters. Just sayin'. That's assuming that her abilities work to such extent or on such scale. And how do you know they do? They could be useful for interrogation, but not a battlefield. Truth of a matter is her unique abilities weren't necessary - all encounters with Venatori spellbinders, Alexius , Erimond and other mage encounters have ended up successfully for Inquisition.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 25, 2017 19:02:19 GMT
Could have helped with those Venatori spellbinders, or Alexius, or Erimond, or any of the other mage encounters. Just sayin'. That's assuming that her abilities work to such extent or on such scale. And how do you know they do? They could be useful for interrogation, but not a battlefield. Truth of a matter is her unique abilities weren't necessary - all encounters with Venatori spellbinders, Alexius , Erimond and other mage encounters have ended up successfully for Inquisition. Well yea, but the overall point is that it is annoying and jarring to have a seeker with a "templar" spec, and also have the player learn the templar spec, and have them both use the same abilities. I don't like it.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 25, 2017 20:36:32 GMT
That's assuming that her abilities work to such extent or on such scale. And how do you know they do? They could be useful for interrogation, but not a battlefield. Truth of a matter is her unique abilities weren't necessary - all encounters with Venatori spellbinders, Alexius , Erimond and other mage encounters have ended up successfully for Inquisition. Well yea, but the overall point is that it is annoying and jarring to have a seeker with a "templar" spec, and also have the player learn the templar spec, and have them both use the same abilities. I don't like it. Why wouldn't it make sense? We don't have any other active templars/seekers in the party other than Cassandra, so we don't know if all templars would use the exact same abilities as her - in fact, even of Inquisitor has received training from someone else, it'd make sense for them to pick up on techniques of a person who they likely either actively spar with or observe on a field. Ultimately this is just a minor gripe, like lack of active healing or the fact that companions would logically know their specializations before Inquisition reached Skyhold, but hey - gameplay and story segregation does its thing sometimes. And I certainly don't mind unique abilities, but when the trees are more gimmicky than useful (*cough*shapeshifting*cough*) I prefer something that I can work with, and also something that is more manageable when it comes to gearing up and swapping team members. That of course doesn't mean that I expect for the next game to just follow what DAI did, especially that we know that some of the issues stemmed from new engine and some other limitations that likely won't exist now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 21:08:37 GMT
Haven't read the thread yet, so I'm not sure if anyone said this yet. And it's not really a specialization per se. But I really want to see the return of the ranged warrior.
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 26, 2017 1:53:17 GMT
Now that I think about it... Wouldn't Shadow fit Cole better? Yes. Yes it would. More than any Companion in Inquisition, Cole made me long for DA 2's unique Specializations. His mindwipe abilities would have been grate for CC, stunlocking, and canceling and/or redistributing agro. Likewise, Cassandra should have had unique abilities, as that whole "set lyrium aflame" thing she mentions would have come in handy . Hopefully in Dragon Age 4 Bioware can compromise by giving Companions character specific specializations, but allow an Origins style second spec for players who want to choose them.
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Post by mattjamho on Apr 26, 2017 8:26:49 GMT
I want an Arcane Warrior to fight like this!!!! I could see something like this for a spirit based rogue. Given that we're going to Tevinter in the next game, and their frivolous use of spirits, I'd definitely like to see spirit specs for warriors and rogues, especially considering we'll likely not see any lyrium based Templar skills. I imagine Northern Templars have a completely unique style of combating magic, perhaps similar to Marius in the Magekiller comics, so a spec based around disabling magic and demons would be good, I'd assume we'll be fighting more of them up north.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 26, 2017 9:02:02 GMT
I want an Arcane Warrior to fight like this!!!! I could see something like this for a spirit based rogue. Given that we're going to Tevinter in the next game, and their frivolous use of spirits, I'd definitely like to see spirit specs for warriors and rogues, especially considering we'll likely not see any lyrium based Templar skills. I imagine Northern Templars have a completely unique style of combating magic, perhaps similar to Marius in the Magekiller comics, so a spec based around disabling magic and demons would be good, I'd assume we'll be fighting more of them up north. They could create a classless character to customize abilities, combat styles, and specializations such as Warrior, Rogue and Mage as skillsets instead of choosing them as a class like Skyrim where you could create your own archetype without limits
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Post by mattjamho on Apr 26, 2017 9:16:47 GMT
I could see something like this for a spirit based rogue. Given that we're going to Tevinter in the next game, and their frivolous use of spirits, I'd definitely like to see spirit specs for warriors and rogues, especially considering we'll likely not see any lyrium based Templar skills. I imagine Northern Templars have a completely unique style of combating magic, perhaps similar to Marius in the Magekiller comics, so a spec based around disabling magic and demons would be good, I'd assume we'll be fighting more of them up north. They should create a classless character to customize abilities, combat styles, and specializations such as Warrior, Rogue and Mage as skillsets instead of choosing them as a class like Skyrim where you could create your own archetype without limits I'd be down for this, but I could see it being an issue with class selection. Unless they just omit the magic option for dwarves?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 26, 2017 10:07:46 GMT
They should create a classless character to customize abilities, combat styles, and specializations such as Warrior, Rogue and Mage as skillsets instead of choosing them as a class like Skyrim where you could create your own archetype without limits I'd be down for this, but I could see it being an issue with class selection. Unless they just omit the magic option for dwarves? This doesn't work with Dragon Age lore because of the way mages are portrayed. You are either a mage or you aren't, with magic manifesting around puberty. And until they establish by some events (perhaps lowering of the veil) that everyone has the potential to be a mage, they have to continue to stay with the mage/non-mage class distinctions. Now, a mage doesn't have to use their abilities in combat; they can choose to be a physical fighter instead. But in the lore, being a mage isn't about your preferred combat style, it is the connection to the Fade and the ability to draw power from it that makes the mage, regardless of whether they use it or not. And as you point out, dwarves are the odd person out with such a system. Granted there were things revealed during the Descent DLC, but that was limited to certain characters. I'd prefer that the PC NOT have some special, unique traits that allow them to be different/exceptional from every other person in Thedas.
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Post by Rascoth on Apr 26, 2017 11:40:35 GMT
And as you point out, dwarves are the odd person out with such a system. Granted there were things revealed during the Descent DLC, but that was limited to certain characters. I'd prefer that the PC NOT have some special, unique traits that allow them to be different/exceptional from every other person in Thedas. There's only one dwarf that deserves to be a mage
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Post by mattjamho on Apr 26, 2017 12:23:28 GMT
I'd be down for this, but I could see it being an issue with class selection. Unless they just omit the magic option for dwarves? This doesn't work with Dragon Age lore because of the way mages are portrayed. You are either a mage or you aren't, with magic manifesting around puberty. And until they establish by some events (perhaps lowering of the veil) that everyone has the potential to be a mage, they have to continue to stay with the mage/non-mage class distinctions. Now, a mage doesn't have to use their abilities in combat; they can choose to be a physical fighter instead. But in the lore, being a mage isn't about your preferred combat style, it is the connection to the Fade and the ability to draw power from it that makes the mage, regardless of whether they use it or not. And as you point out, dwarves are the odd person out with such a system. Granted there were things revealed during the Descent DLC, but that was limited to certain characters. I'd prefer that the PC NOT have some special, unique traits that allow them to be different/exceptional from every other person in Thedas. I think it could only really work for a set protag, you're a mage but can opt to use different fighting styles. Similar to what they did with Ryder in MEA. Not that I want that for DA, but I would like more flexibility in combat. Maybe more akin to Origins.
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Post by leadintea on Apr 26, 2017 15:58:29 GMT
Spellbinder and Spirit Healer are really the only class I want to see make a comeback in DA4 (the former as a playable class). If they do make Spellbinder a playable class, I want them to remain as buffers but with unique spells, not just a Barrier mage like in DAI. Also, I'd like to see Grimoires as a weapon for mages like the enemy mages in DAI carried. Spellbinders were the Venatori mages who used the grimoires? What spells did they use specifically? I think I remember something about them binding spirits into their books and using that as a source of power, is that right? I'm hazy on the difference between their method of casting versus Southern Circle mages. It's been a while since I played Inquisition but Spellbinders primarily used Barrier as well as their own version of Fire and Ice Mines, which they could conjure 3 at once. They'd cast magic and attack by pulling out energy from their Grimoire pages, IIRC.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 26, 2017 16:02:49 GMT
I was thinking of basically the same idea recently after playing Andromeda and Skyrim. I'm not a fan of how Bioware's increasingly pigeon-holed the classes compared to the relative freedom you had in DAO.
That being said I'm against them taking away racial options and sticking us with a fixed protagonist again.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Apr 27, 2017 4:29:39 GMT
I posted in the wrong thread; I was thinking about mage spells while reading something else. I hardly play mages so I'm not well versed in all the spells of DA but I'd prefer more spell choices and as many hotkeys to use them aka DAO. Being able to shape change is welcomed, make and move small objects. I like the flashy staff animation of DAI btw and hope they incorporate those moves into melee if there is a need to physically attack mobs charging at the mage.
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Post by Blaze on Apr 27, 2017 13:43:20 GMT
*doesn't bother reading the other posts due to being lazy*
spec i want returned? hmm... ranger, but more than the crap we got in origins, keep assassin, and swashbuckling (isabela's spec in dragon age 2) would be nice.
what else? spirit healer, even if there is no healing, you can do it like support spec with the healing being the focus (makes more sense than being the focus of knight enchanter). ooooooh! and spirit healer for warriors! =D
also as a new spec, i'd like to vote for magehunter, marius is not the first, and probably not the last to have that profession.
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Post by Jarovbees on Apr 27, 2017 20:36:42 GMT
My preferences: shapeshifter spirit warrior ranger legionnaire scout blood mage force mage spirit healer knight-enchanter tempest
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