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Post by mordrek on Apr 11, 2017 21:09:18 GMT
I just want them to hire decent writers, because the mainstory of ME:A was soulless.
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Post by raikas on Apr 11, 2017 21:22:08 GMT
I voted for the more like ME1 option, but honestly I wouldn't mind a more open world game if it were packed with more interesting content, and I wouldn't mind a more linear game I'll never understand peoples love with linear shooters. call of duty exists for those things. I think the original Mass Effect walked a line that made it appealing to an overlapping group of fans of RPGs, action/adventure games, narrative games, and shooters. ME2/3 lost of the RPG elements, but the action and narrative elements were front and central even more so than the shooter elements. Call of Duty usually has single player campaigns that are less than 10 hours long and largely combat driven. Obviously there's some crossover, but I don't think being linear makes a game more of a shooter any more than it makes it an action/adventure game.
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Post by kumazan on Apr 11, 2017 21:30:03 GMT
I don't think they will be moving back from open world now, so this whole debate might well be irrelevant. I'm not as negative as some about the open world of Andromeda though, I found it a very good step forward from DA:I, and find it preferable to the linear environmets of ME2/3, even if they are yet to find the right balance. In my opinion, based on the kind of games BioWare make and what is expected from them, one things they should try is to make our PC and our squad/crew more involved in the sidequests. The problem with most of DA:I's sidequests and a good chunk of ME:A's as well was that they didn't seem to be stuff the Inquisitor or the Pathfinder should be doing themselves, because I pretty damn sure the Andromeda Initiative had people better suited to scan 16 rocks than the guy/gal who should be finding a home to them all.
Instead, besides proper sidequests for our PC, have more companion content. I'm sure they could link Vetra's smuggling activities to fair amount of NPCs to give us related quests, same with Liam finding new ways for people to settle in good conditions, more misteries for Peebs to solve, more gardens for Cora to take care of, more rocks for Suvi to lick, etc. It's a triple win-win-win as you get more interesting sidequests (easily), more character development (which is essential in a BioWare game) and a better integration between you/your squad and the setting, making it more lively for sure.
Now, of course, they need not make optional zones ever again. If a zone isn't worth visiting in the critical path, it should not be there, period. Focus on making the critical areas better instead on giving us MOAR for the sake of it.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 11, 2017 21:31:39 GMT
When ME 2 and ME 3 went linear it benefit the series. Maybe a good compromise would be the ME 1 route where the main quest worlds were linear and the optional stuff was more open exploration.
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atricks
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Post by atricks on Apr 11, 2017 21:36:00 GMT
I prefer their indoor maps the most so I guess that puts me as linear.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 21:38:49 GMT
When ME 2 and ME 3 went linear it benefit the series. Maybe a good compromise would be the ME 1 route where the main quest worlds were linear and the optional stuff was more open exploration. That's what Andromeda is. Planetary story on each world and each Vault is linear. sidequests are optional. Same as in ME1 on the story worlds. I never finished every quest in either game and there were no penalty in either for it so far.
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Post by kleindropper on Apr 11, 2017 21:40:31 GMT
Open world is fine as long as it has something in it. If they can't pull that off, Id prefer some well designed instances
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Post by atalante on Apr 11, 2017 21:46:42 GMT
I am OK with both options as long as they are done correctly.
The safe option would be to return to a linear structure, as they have mastered it in the past.
Open-world could be really cool, but I really don't like how it has been done recently with DAI and MEA. To me a good open-world is bethesda-like. Every place on the map should be handcrafted and feel unique (the landscapes of MEA are good, but the buildings and ennemies are way too standardized). Furthermore, quests should barely need waypoints markers if any (and certainly not flood you with quests), and appart from main story/large side quests, certainly NOT have you go right and left to follow marker after marker. Of course, all quests like "go to 10 places", "mine 15 minerals" and such should be banished. Ideally, minors quests should be found on the map by "accident", hence we would really feel we are exploring.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Apr 11, 2017 21:58:49 GMT
If they can create an open world that feels lived in, then I would like that as opposed to ME2-3 linear corridor shooters. I hate to bring up TW3, but in that game there were hunting cabins, people on the roads, little towns, larger towns, etc. that you could just happen upon. I think the closest MEA comes to that is Kadara. There just needs to be more stuff in the world to make it seem like it's not just an open landscape with occasional Kett bases that all look pretty similar. In FO4, there would be merchants traveling the roads, people being attacked by gouls, etc. In MEA, there's emptiness, then BAM! Kett base. Or BAM! prefab settlement. There isn't much in between in the way of showing that people live in this world and try to make a living off of it.
I also noticed that in HZD and FO4, there's so much more in the way of vegetation. Besides Havarl, there really isn't a lot of anything besides rocks and sand. I know Kadara has lethal water and Eos is a desert, but still. HZD has trees, grass, all sorts of stuff to make it look like a real world. I know we want the planets to be "alien" looking in MEA, but there should still be grass and stuff, right? I just think overall it's too spread out and there isn't enough effort put into making it a world instead of a landscape.
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Post by fraggle on Apr 11, 2017 22:25:15 GMT
Linear makes for a better pacing and tighter focus on the story/characters. I'm always for linear because open world quickly can become boring, and Bioware is not good at doing it. My favourite missions in MEA were the linear ones by far because it felt like I was going somewhere in the story or learn more about characters in their loyalty missions. I could live with something similar to ME1 too though, just not completely MEA or DAI again, which are basically the same concept anyway.
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Post by Debaser on Apr 11, 2017 22:25:53 GMT
After DA:I and ME:A I don't think 'open world' is BioWare's best skillset. I'd be fine with the linear 'battle corridors' that we had in ME2 and DA:O as long as the combat and story are good. The open worldness is just tedious usually, and I haven't stumbled upon anything that wow'd me or made the open world feel alive/wortgh it like I did in Skyrim, The Witcher 3, and Zelda BotW.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 23:22:20 GMT
Something like Uncharted 4 would suit perfectly in a new generation Mass Effect game I think. Linear but with the illusion of a large area Yep. I used to love open-world games. But now, because of real life coming into play, and because I've just played sooo many games with huge expansive maps (seems like games with huge open worlds are a dime a dozen now), I'm kind of burnt out on open-world games in general. So I wouldn't really have a problem with the next ME game being a lot more linear than Andromeda. Like I said before, not Final Fantasy 13 levels of linear, but Uncharted 4 I feel hits a nice spot. Yeap real life and responsibilities just suck. Open world games lost their charm after being done so many goddamn times, I too miss the simpler games that has strong story elements in them.
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Post by SofNascimento on Apr 11, 2017 23:27:41 GMT
It doesn't matter. What matters is who is going to make it. If it's the same people that made Andromeda, it might be open world, linear, bilinear, trilinear or any permutation of these, it's going to suck. Very insightful comment. I'm sure you're really great at providing feedback. The word "suck" is really going to help BW taking our comments in account and hopefully deliver a better product and patching the issues on what was released. The thing is... this Bioware can't talk any comment into account. They wouldn't know the first to do with any feedback. Not to mention Andromeda is beyond fixing. There isn't any leadership talent left.
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Post by sauron001 on Apr 11, 2017 23:28:55 GMT
Where is the option to just have a good mix of both? Obviously the premise of andromeda is exploration which is near impossible without open world.
I say stick with open world but keep the loyalty, main missions, and just add more random encounters such as ME2. That would bring more fun to scanning planets. Reminsecent of when you found merc/pirates bases or the Cerberus installations.
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Post by fizzypop on Apr 11, 2017 23:31:05 GMT
"open worlds" (and yes in quotes because like 99% of the games that say open world aren't) aren't right for every story. For most rpgs I would say linear actually works best. Skyrim is the only open world game I've ever liked and without the modding community I probably wouldn't. Linear is really far superior to storytelling which rpg style games largely are about the story.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 11, 2017 23:35:49 GMT
Very insightful comment. I'm sure you're really great at providing feedback. The word "suck" is really going to help BW taking our comments in account and hopefully deliver a better product and patching the issues on what was released. The thing is... this Bioware can't talk any comment into account. They wouldn't know the first to do with any feedback. Not to mention Andromeda is beyond fixing. There isn't any leadership talent left. Bioware has quite the history of overreacting because of feedback actually so I can't really agree, especially when they've said before launch they'd have patches coming as they knew the game had issues. Their first patch also takes people's issues into consideration. Long ass load times in space? Gone. Eyes fixed? Done. Animations? Already started with more to come. CC options? Already in the works. The story itself can't be fixed but they can still get better next game, especially if they clean house with the writing team. You just think so low of them that theyre incompetent when they really arent. Disliking them or their direction is fine, but you act like they're the devil and the worse thing out there that does no right.
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Post by sauron001 on Apr 11, 2017 23:36:22 GMT
I believe the biggest issue of this game in terms of story is people don't feel like "the main mission" is urgent. As the writers stated exploration and establishing colonies are the main plot of this game while the kett are just 1 of the many antagonists.
If you play the main plot up to Gil having to fix/decipher the transponder the rest of the game meshes well to the kett story. I'm doing that on my NG+ and the game feels much more in line with the story.
I also agree some of the quests are just meh and unnecessary at best. I hate when people compare this to TW3 but I will say if they had more quests like the few you had on eos and voeld that were "mini" stories and had some emotion more players might* be happy.
Just my thoughts.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 11, 2017 23:44:38 GMT
Mass Effect Andromeda really isn't an "open world" game. Very few games are truly "open world," where you can literally go wherever you want and do whatever you want without running into a barrier. Just as an example, you obviously cannot go straight to Meridian and do the final mission once you leave the Nexus.
As far as my opinion on the matter, I think a more open world format, much like Andromeda, is the right direction to take. Why? The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, and most recently The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, are some of the greatest games (not just open world RPGs) ever made.
It's incredibly easy to do an open world game wrong. However, for those who do it right, they make experiences that are unrivaled by anything else on the market. Linear games are fine and they serve their purpose. Unfortunately, it is because of their linearity that they have limits and can only provide so much value. An open world game doesn't have such limits and can potentially offer limitless possibilities if it's crafted with the right philosophy in mind.
I'll always prefer the "open world" approach. But, I also realize only the most talented and ambitious studios with the funding and resources to support them can truly make those experiences possible. Even those open world games that get it right tend to be few and far between with maybe a great open world game once every generation.
BioWare is on the right track. I see no reason to take five steps backwards just because they haven't quite got the formula right yet.
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Post by armass81 on Apr 11, 2017 23:48:51 GMT
Planets should be one fifth of the size of the maps we have in MEA and there should be more of them. The problem is all that space is meaningless if its filled with either dull quests or MMO style fetch quests.
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Post by Teddie Sage on Apr 12, 2017 0:39:23 GMT
I want something like ME2 and ME3 again. More story heavy and less boring.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 12, 2017 1:34:17 GMT
The game is already like ME 1 already. Honestly....and I call it to so this is just as much self criticism....but to call Andromeda 'open world' is disengenious. Andromeda is cut from the same cloth as Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 1. Open area 'hubs' you can go to and do things, main quests and side quests, and then move onto the next ones. Andromeda just has somewhat larger maps. But that does not make it any more or less of an 'open world game' as Inquisition or Witcher 3 or even DA 2 or Origins or ME 1. In fact there are a lot of missions and areas in the game that are linear.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 12, 2017 1:35:47 GMT
Jeez. Skyrim?
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Post by bshep on Apr 12, 2017 1:41:36 GMT
I would say that this is what ME Andromeda did considering the mix between open areas for exploration and ones more linear for story purposes.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 12, 2017 1:42:40 GMT
Open world is more Fallout 4 and Skyrim. MEA is just HUb based.
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 12, 2017 2:13:32 GMT
More open world attempted with nearly every game? Sure.
Necessarily jumping to a new level of open world design? Nooopppeee.
The MEA with Nomad was right on the edge of tolerable to me, and I don't prefer it.
MEA MP had it right, compared to ME3, in adding mobility, more options in a map, and a more exploratory design than before. MEA's best parts did this as well, most often seen in things like loyalty missions. The Nomad and larger planets were not bad things in themselves, but their flaws were made very clear whenever the map design seemed to insist on continuing on with sidemission area after sidemission area, when I would have preferred a trim down (not as bad as DAI IMO) and 1+ more planets instead.
I can only dreadfully imagine how it may have been before they got DAI's response.
It is striking how disappointing the hubs are compared to the trilogy, even ME1.
I think both DA and ME games would be viewed by audiences much more favorably if Bioware just decided to give the best damn polished game that is at least a step up from the previous game. Instead it seems they chase gimmicks, in this case pursuing the 'open world' without a really good understanding of what it takes for that to be great and what has to be sacrificed and devoted to (often with gigantic budgets), to make it work.
Its okay to just make a fantastic RPG that mixes well with other genre conventions. Really really.
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