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Post by jastall on Apr 12, 2017 19:34:10 GMT
Yes geth magic telescopes, made from 3 mass relays used together, courtesy of Mac Walters. I mean, it's still way less stupid than Project Lazarus and Synthesis, so I'll take it.
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Post by fchopin on Apr 12, 2017 19:36:16 GMT
More Geth space magic to explain everything. I think it is about time they used some logic to make the stories better.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 12, 2017 19:37:52 GMT
Yes geth magic telescopes, made from 3 mass relays used together, courtesy of Mac Walters. I mean, it's still way less stupid than Project Lazarus and Synthesis, so I'll take it. That's a very valid point. Sometimes you just have to pretend things don't need an explanation, like the Geth Telescope. Other times its best to just pretend it didn't happen at all, like Project Lazarus, the ME3 endings, and Superman IV.
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Post by fygee on Apr 12, 2017 19:39:31 GMT
Its science fiction folks. Emphasis on the fiction part.
We already have space magic with Biotics, so why not an FTL telescope made by the Geth with a Mass Relay?
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Post by jastall on Apr 12, 2017 20:00:17 GMT
I mean, it's still way less stupid than Project Lazarus and Synthesis, so I'll take it. That's a very valid point. Sometimes you just have to pretend things don't need an explanation, like the Geth Telescope. Other times its best to just pretend it didn't happen at all, like Project Lazarus, the ME3 endings, and Superman IV. I mean, let's not act as if this is new to the series. The titular Mass Effect is explained (and even then there are holes when it comes to stuff like Biotics) but beyond that? Even in ME1, which was the closest to wanting to stick to hard science, you still had stuff like the Thorian which wasn't explained by much more than ''spores did it'' or the Prothean beacon that somehow plants visions and language into the mind of a being that's utterly alien to it, and makes them float for dramatic effect. In fact, it's hardly new to sci-fi as a whole. Even the likes of Star Trek and Babylon 5 have lots of weird stuff happen and you just have to take the series's word for it that it works that way just because. As far as sci-fi explanations go, ''these technically adept AIs used the resident FTL portal network to create a superpowered telescope'' isn't exactly a giant stretch to me. And as you said, the series has had far, far worse in terms of scientific absurdities.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 12, 2017 20:04:15 GMT
If you talk to Suvi, you learn that the data from Andromeda is the result of the geth's repurposing of a mass relay to act as an FTL telescope. I still don't understand that part. I like to know how the geth were able to rebuild a mass relay and turned the approached corridor into an ftl sensor? Of course I would be curious how the Initiative obtained that information. I guess its space magic. I don't know here's the dialogue from Suvi I could've sworn that the quarians were mentioned somewhere about this. They're the likeliest source of geth intel.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 12, 2017 20:12:28 GMT
Honestly, the whole mass-free corridor idea does leave the door open for stuff like this, so I can dig it. Don't relays need pairs to open corridors? What did the corridor open up to, without another relay in Andromeda to link up with? I'm certain some form of Trekkie technobabble could be conjured up to explain it, like the relay's built-in sensor used to pair with other relays were reconfigured to transmit a signal through its mass free corridor (which would be virtually endless without a partner relay at the other end) and the signal simply bounces back when that signal interacts with any bodies in its path giving them a closer to real time view of the cluster. Then the geth all do the robot because of how insanely scientastic they are.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 12, 2017 20:17:14 GMT
The internet, what a place.
Element Zero? Yeah, that sounds plausible. The Mass Effect? Sure!
FTL telescopes? No, no, this is too much.
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Post by goishen on Apr 12, 2017 20:25:41 GMT
Then why weren't they using them to spy on organics? Why haven't they used it to spy on their home planet 598 years into the future? What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 12, 2017 20:29:11 GMT
Then why weren't they using them to spy on organics? Why haven't they used it to spy on their home planet 598 years into the future? What's good for the goose, is good for the gander. Why would they need to? People communicate across the galaxy through comm buoys, and the geth can just monitor that.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 12, 2017 20:29:29 GMT
I'm honestly unclear about what plot problem the telescope was supposed to solve. Inhabitable planets are unlikely to all go uninhabitable in a couple of million years on their own, and since there are multiple worlds one going bad wouldn't sink the project. And if you're worried about intelligent life arriving and taking over, a 600-year window won't really help
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Post by sdzald on Apr 12, 2017 20:37:24 GMT
Honestly, the whole mass-free corridor idea does leave the door open for stuff like this, so I can dig it. Don't relays need pairs to open corridors? What did the corridor open up to, without another relay in Andromeda to link up with? THANK YOU. That is what I was trying to ask only my question made no sense. That is my understanding. A Mass Relay needs one on each end to work, how the heck did the Geth get one to work without one on the other end? I can't wait to hear the Fanboys come up with one for that
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Post by sdzald on Apr 12, 2017 20:39:17 GMT
More Geth space magic to explain everything. I think it is about time they used some logic to make the stories better. Lo ... LOL ...LOLLLL... LMAOOOOOOO ... Sorry I can't stop laughing, Mr Walters and Bioware using logic ... LOL oh crap here I go again.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 12, 2017 20:51:39 GMT
Don't relays need pairs to open corridors? What did the corridor open up to, without another relay in Andromeda to link up with? THANK YOU. That is what I was trying to ask only my question made no sense. That is my understanding. A Mass Relay needs one on each end to work, how the heck did the Geth get one to work without one on the other end? I can't wait to hear the Fanboys come up with one for that This got me wondering: where is the relay that pairs with the Omega 4 relay. When we launch the suicide mission, we don't actually see the Normandy pass through its sister gateway. Anyway, there's no real in-depth technojargon about how relays work other than that they need to be paired to actually make a transfer of matter through the corridor, so it's not like it's a huge stretch within the story's internal logic that it would just use that relay's eezo core to create a "catapult" or something.
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Post by Serza on Apr 12, 2017 20:52:16 GMT
OP doesn't keep to the BioWare Mantra to look everywhere, ask everything and read all codex entries.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 12, 2017 20:56:39 GMT
Yes geth magic telescopes, made from 3 mass relays used together, courtesy of Mac Walters. I mean, it's still way less stupid than Project Lazarus and Synthesis, so I'll take it. I think it actually isn't (less stupid). Think about it, you cobble 3 mass relays together, then what? They would have to generate a mass free corridor, that light in andromeda can enter (without a relay being there) and then get to the relays at super FTL speed. That's sort of the opposite of how relays work. Also, if they can create that corridor (and everything in it is mass free), they could just transport their ships over there as well. If they didn't have a mass free corridor, than the light from andromeda would still need to reach the MW and you gain nothing. It's a typical example of "we'll just use a few words that we have used before, like "relay" and "geth", then put a 3 before that and BAM, plot hole closed". Yea, that's not how it works.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 22:03:28 GMT
Does make me wonder; how did it end up taking 600 years? Where did that arbitrary number come from MET's technology enabled FTL travel at a rate of ~ 12 LY / day. At that rate, it would take ~ 600 years to travel the 2.5M LY to Andromeda.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 12, 2017 22:10:05 GMT
I mean, it's still way less stupid than Project Lazarus and Synthesis, so I'll take it. I think it actually isn't (less stupid). Think about it, you cobble 3 mass relays together, then what? They would have to generate a mass free corridor, that light in andromeda can enter (without a relay being there) and then get to the relays at super FTL speed. That's sort of the opposite of how relays work. Also, if they can create that corridor (and everything in it is mass free), they could just transport their ships over there as well. If they didn't have a mass free corridor, than the light from andromeda would still need to reach the MW and you gain nothing. It's a typical example of "we'll just use a few words that we have used before, like "relay" and "geth", then put a 3 before that and BAM, plot hole closed". Yea, that's not how it works. I'd say that Project Lazarus is still worse because at least mass relays are entirely fictional technology that uses an entirely implausible element to function. For Project Lazarus to truly work, we'd have to ignore anything and everything we know about human physiology, unless we're dealing with a pocket of time travel here. No amount of resources would be able to restore the information that's lost once the body dies for any extended period of time. Shepard should have just been in a coma, but instead we get this retarded bullshit.
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Post by jastall on Apr 12, 2017 22:15:30 GMT
I mean, it's still way less stupid than Project Lazarus and Synthesis, so I'll take it. I think it actually isn't (less stupid). Think about it, you cobble 3 mass relays together, then what? They would have to generate a mass free corridor, that light in andromeda can enter (without a relay being there) and then get to the relays at super FTL speed. That's sort of the opposite of how relays work. Also, if they can create that corridor (and everything in it is mass free), they could just transport their ships over there as well. If they didn't have a mass free corridor, than the light from andromeda would still need to reach the MW and you gain nothing. It's a typical example of "we'll just use a few words that we have used before, like "relay" and "geth", then put a 3 before that and BAM, plot hole closed". Yea, that's not how it works. If Protheans can build a Relay in secrecy, nothing says the Geth can't jury rig them to work from the opposite side. Of course, it's jury rigged, so they couldn't use the subsequent construct to travel (that would have saved the Initiative quite a few headaches) as it wouldn't be powerful enough to move ships. But it's good enough to have a rough estimate of how Andromeda looks within a few hundred years, which is almost real time when such distances are considered. Given that the Omega 4 Relay could also (dangerously) send something through without having a sister Replay on the other side, there is precedent for that kind of thing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 22:16:17 GMT
I think it actually isn't (less stupid). Think about it, you cobble 3 mass relays together, then what? They would have to generate a mass free corridor, that light in andromeda can enter (without a relay being there) and then get to the relays at super FTL speed. That's sort of the opposite of how relays work. Also, if they can create that corridor (and everything in it is mass free), they could just transport their ships over there as well. If they didn't have a mass free corridor, than the light from andromeda would still need to reach the MW and you gain nothing. It's a typical example of "we'll just use a few words that we have used before, like "relay" and "geth", then put a 3 before that and BAM, plot hole closed". Yea, that's not how it works. I'd say that Project Lazarus is still worse because at least mass relays are entirely fictional technology that uses an entirely implausible element to function. For Project Lazarus to truly work, we'd have to ignore anything and everything we know about human physiology, unless we're dealing with a pocket of time travel here. No amount of resources would be able to restore the information that's lost once the body dies for any extended period of time. Shepard should have just been in a coma, but instead we get this retarded bullshit. "Experience is a biological marker." -- Javik Apparently the real Shepard was so deeply ingrained in her rotting corpse that everything came back.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 12, 2017 22:23:27 GMT
I'd say that Project Lazarus is still worse because at least mass relays are entirely fictional technology that uses an entirely implausible element to function. For Project Lazarus to truly work, we'd have to ignore anything and everything we know about human physiology, unless we're dealing with a pocket of time travel here. No amount of resources would be able to restore the information that's lost once the body dies for any extended period of time. Shepard should have just been in a coma, but instead we get this retarded bullshit. Agreed. In a fictional sci-fi universe I'm pretty willing to extended a lot of rope in the suspension of disbelief department but taking, what did Jacob call it, a pile of meat and tubes, and turning it back into a person? Not only that but a person with all their memories, skills, emotions, and personality quirks still intact with zero side effects or even a shred of emotional stress or instability? Yeah they lost me there.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 22:31:05 GMT
I've just thought of a rather large plot hole.
They've used this FTL telescope made of Mass Relays to make the light particles move from Andromeda to the Milky Way almost instantly. This demonstrates that there doesn't need to be a relay on the other side to get things from Andromeda to the Milky Way very quickly. It seems reasonable to expect the principle to work in reverse.
Did no-one think to use this to get to Andromeda?
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Post by Iakus on Apr 12, 2017 23:05:26 GMT
Don't relays need pairs to open corridors? What did the corridor open up to, without another relay in Andromeda to link up with? I'm certain some form of Trekkie technobabble could be conjured up to explain it, like the relay's built-in sensor used to pair with other relays were reconfigured to transmit a signal through its mass free corridor (which would be virtually endless without a partner relay at the other end) and the signal simply bounces back when that signal interacts with any bodies in its path giving them a closer to real time view of the cluster. Then the geth all do the robot because of how insanely scientastic they are.
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Post by fchopin on Apr 12, 2017 23:06:09 GMT
I've just thought of a rather large plot hole. They've used this FTL telescope made of Mass Relays to make the light particles move from Andromeda to the Milky Way almost instantly. This demonstrates that there doesn't need to be a relay on the other side to get things from Andromeda to the Milky Way very quickly. It seems reasonable to expect the principle to work in reverse. Did no-one think to use this to get to Andromeda? They can also probably use it to see what happened to the Milky way and probably also communicate with them on Earth if we are to believe the magic.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 23:08:33 GMT
I've just thought of a rather large plot hole. They've used this FTL telescope made of Mass Relays to make the light particles move from Andromeda to the Milky Way almost instantly. This demonstrates that there doesn't need to be a relay on the other side to get things from Andromeda to the Milky Way very quickly. It seems reasonable to expect the principle to work in reverse. Did no-one think to use this to get to Andromeda? They can also probably use it to see what happened to the Milky way and probably also communicate with them on Earth if we are to believe the magic.
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