Warrior DM
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The morning is for coffee and contemplation.
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The morning is for coffee and contemplation.
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warriordm
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Post by Warrior DM on Apr 13, 2017 4:21:15 GMT
Let's compare the leadership as they were in the first Mass Effect, to Andromeda. Who do you prefer dealing with? The Council or the Nexus?
Do you think certain members of the Nexus leadership will be replaced in the future? Will the Nexus be more effective down the line, or will they get worse?
I personally think Addison and/or Tann will eventually get replaced.
Addison is more concerned with her political image than the truth. Tann is probably going to royally piss off the Krogan one day.
Kandros and Kesh are very good at their jobs, and generally more concerned with the welfare of everyone.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 13, 2017 4:27:27 GMT
The two can't even be compared, at present. The true, intended leaders of the AI are all dead. In their place were left people who never managed to work together as a team. Sloane and Kesh tried; Tann was too worried about being top dog; and Addison was extremely bipolar when her influence was most needed, pre-Uprising. The Council, meanwhile, runs like a well oiled machine, until a galaxy-ending threat arrives. Even then, they got it together, sort of...
The ultimate goal is to setup a Council-led government, which will lead from the Nexus. They'll eventually get it together. None of the current leaders are likely up be part of such a Council, excepting maybe Kesh, if she has a stomach for it.
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Warrior DM
N3
The morning is for coffee and contemplation.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Warrior DM
Posts: 296 Likes: 536
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The morning is for coffee and contemplation.
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Post by Warrior DM on Apr 13, 2017 4:38:05 GMT
The ultimate goal is to setup a Council-led government, which will lead from the Nexus. They'll eventually get it together. None of the current leaders are likely up be part of such a Council, excepting maybe Kesh, if she has a stomach for it. Kesh's political skill is interesting. She's uniquely capable of negotiating for her people (without headbutting anyone), and doesn't seem replaceable. I could see Kesh getting into the political game despite hating it.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 13, 2017 4:41:17 GMT
The ultimate goal is to setup a Council-led government, which will lead from the Nexus. They'll eventually get it together. None of the current leaders are likely up be part of such a Council, excepting maybe Kesh, if she has a stomach for it. Kesh's political skill is interesting. She uniquely capable of negotiating for her people (without headbutting anyone), and doesn't seem replaceable. I could see Kesh getting into the political game despite hating it. I think she's destined for greatness, no doubt. She's a character everyone can like, from an out-of-game perspective. From an in-game perspective, she's brilliant, likeable, and willing to work side-by-side with non-krogan amicably. I'd be shocked if she isn't a major NPC in any future games.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 4:47:09 GMT
Nexus leadership is not really leadership. It's surviving people filled into roles until they can form a council. At the end of it you get to see that they are aiming for some kind of council. But if we are to compare, in MET I was pretty sick of the council. There was always one intolerant jerk (often the turian) and in three the salarian has a very clear agenda about the krogan (which has always been their big issue, possibly their only one as we see from Tann as well). While the andromeda folks aren't really 'leadership' and are just more like heads of departments you can still see their race beliefs shining through. Tann hates krogan. Kandos is pro military. Kesh wants krogans on top or feels slighted when you don't choose krogans over a pathfinder despite them saying they need pathfinders. It's really more of those same issues essentially. New galaxy. No changes except now you get a new race that can weigh in on things. Frankly, I wanted to give it to Moesha because she seems like she might have a much better perspective and yeah they were their first as well as it was basically designed for them. Perhaps her fresh perspective might give us something new instead of a council we have to ignore or hang up on.
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qwib
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Post by qwib on Apr 13, 2017 4:55:25 GMT
Citadel Council only wanted you to report and dismissed everything you said to them. Their incompetence was a very realistic portrayel of politicians IRL.
Nexus leadership aren't politicians, they are more a bunch of people who had to Lead or there would have been even more utter chaos. Nexus Leader should be replaced and they must make a seat open for the Angaran.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 13, 2017 4:55:57 GMT
Nexus leadership is not really leadership. It's surviving people filled into roles until they can form a council. At the end of it you get to see that they are aiming for some kind of council. But if we are to compare, in MET I was pretty sick of the council. There was always one intolerant jerk (often the turian) and in three the salarian has a very clear agenda about the krogan (which has always been their big issue, possibly their only one as we see from Tann as well). While the andromeda folks aren't really 'leadership' and are just more like heads of departments you can still see their race beliefs shining through. Tann hates krogan. Kandos is pro military. Kesh wants krogans on top or feels slighted when you don't choose krogans over a pathfinder despite them saying they need pathfinders. It's really more of those same issues essentially. New galaxy. No changes except now you get a new race that can weigh in on things. Frankly, I wanted to give it to Moesha because she seems like she might have a much better perspective and yeah they were their first as well as it was basically designed for them. Perhaps her fresh perspective might give us something new instead of a council we have to ignore or hang up on.
Certainly, the angara will be part of any Council that is eventually formed, if they wish. (I believe they will wish it so, with all that happens in MEA; and with the kett invasion still underway.) Whether it's within the Moshae's lifetime, or not, we'll see. She's very old. I chose her to be Meridian Ambassador to the Nexus, in my first playthrough. (I've only completed the one.) It seemed a great way to ensure that an amicable partnership continues. It was also my attempt at roping the angara into our society, to be honest. The quicker they trust us, and fully integrate with the AI society, the better. She was also clearly more qualified than any other candidates offered me.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 13, 2017 5:17:57 GMT
I thought the Citadel Council was kind of a trio of dicks designed specifically to test our patience. Kill rachni, I'm a genocidal maniac. Spare rachni, I'm an irresponsible rube that's potentially doomed galactic society. Which is it you dumb metal bird?
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Post by doch on Apr 13, 2017 5:27:05 GMT
Tann was ok in my book. He played the game well as a politician and opportunist. Figured once I got him to trust me, I can work on his anti-Krogan sentiments. At least get him to be a little more inclusive and open minded. But not just for the sake of being inclusive and open minded, but help him stretch and massage-out his distrust toward them. The Krogan would still need to prove themselves with certain criteria. He helped me (even if he had his political reasons) and I would help him. Giving some credit to the writing, his character was developed decently. In fact, I would like to see him back in the next game - and in a position of power again. Some great potential there, I think.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 13, 2017 5:29:58 GMT
I prefer the Citadel Council although it has nothing to do with them being "better leaders." They were a worthless governmental body that was far too constrained to ever meddle in my affairs. Whereas the Nexus leadership (Addison especially) constantly gets involved and is a hindrance rather than a benefit.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 13, 2017 5:33:57 GMT
I prefer the Citadel Council although it has nothing to do with them being "better leaders." They were a worthless governmental body that was far too constrained to ever meddle in my affairs. Whereas the Nexus leadership (Addison especially) constantly gets involved and is a hindrance rather than a benefit. I don't recall Addison, or any of them really, being any kind of hindrance to whatever Ryder was doing. Addison second guessed and flat out complained that Ryder was not Alec, but that never really got in the way of anything, especially since Tann basically just gives you a ship right off the bat, for lack of better options. That Tann, Addison and Kesh feel more involved in the goings on with the Initiative makes them feel more like real characters in serious positions of responsibility. The Council always seemed rather distant. They just stood there side by side to be judgmental or tell Shepard no to something and then walked away.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 13, 2017 5:41:22 GMT
I prefer the Citadel Council although it has nothing to do with them being "better leaders." They were a worthless governmental body that was far too constrained to ever meddle in my affairs. Whereas the Nexus leadership (Addison especially) constantly gets involved and is a hindrance rather than a benefit. I don't recall Addison, or any of them really, being any kind of hindrance to whatever Ryder was doing. Addison second guessed and flat out complained that Ryder was not Alec, but that never really got in the way of anything, especially since Tann basically just gives you a ship right off the bat, for lack of better options. That Tann, Addison and Kesh feel more involved in the goings on with the Initiative makes them feel more like real characters in serious positions of responsibility. The Council always seemed rather distant. They just stood there side by side to be judgmental or tell Shepard no to something and then walked away. That's what Addison does the first conversation you have with her... She does plenty wrong for the rest of 90+ hours of the game. Between trying to prevent you from taking the Tempest, to hiring mercenaries due to her lack of trust in you, her ineptitude with Spender and how that entire situation causes the Pathfinder even greater inconvenience, etc.. Addison is nothing more than a pessimistic, inept, walking disaster that serves no purpose other than causing problems for the player to solve. Kesh is at least likable and Tann is pragmatic and understanding, even if he has ulterior motives. Addison, without a doubt, is the new Udina. Unfortunately, she shows up far more often than Udina ever did.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 13, 2017 6:22:37 GMT
The ultimate goal is to setup a Council-led government, which will lead from the Nexus. They'll eventually get it together. None of the current leaders are likely up be part of such a Council, excepting maybe Kesh, if she has a stomach for it. Kesh's political skill is interesting. She uniquely capable of negotiating for her people (without headbutting anyone), and doesn't seem replaceable. I could see Kesh getting into the political game despite hating it. I could see that happening especially if Drack becomes the new Wrex, they seem to be pushing the idea that the Krogan need his knowledge and wisdom too.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 13, 2017 6:31:26 GMT
I don't recall Addison, or any of them really, being any kind of hindrance to whatever Ryder was doing. Addison second guessed and flat out complained that Ryder was not Alec, but that never really got in the way of anything, especially since Tann basically just gives you a ship right off the bat, for lack of better options. That Tann, Addison and Kesh feel more involved in the goings on with the Initiative makes them feel more like real characters in serious positions of responsibility. The Council always seemed rather distant. They just stood there side by side to be judgmental or tell Shepard no to something and then walked away. That's what Addison does the first conversation you have with her... She does plenty wrong for the rest of 90+ hours of the game. Between trying to prevent you from taking the Tempest, to hiring mercenaries due to her lack of trust in you, her ineptitude with Spender and how that entire situation causes the Pathfinder even greater inconvenience, etc.. Addison is nothing more than a pessimistic, inept, walking disaster that serves no purpose other than causing problems for the player to solve. Kesh is at least likable and Tann is pragmatic and understanding, even if he has ulterior motives. Addison, without a doubt, is the new Udina. Unfortunately, she shows up far more often than Udina ever did. I don't think Addison really has the makings of a new Udina, especially considering that unlike that prickly little shit, she actually comes around in the end, whereas Udina gets the grave he deserves, and by grave, I assume being jettisoned into space without even so much as a body bag.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 13, 2017 6:55:54 GMT
That's what Addison does the first conversation you have with her... She does plenty wrong for the rest of 90+ hours of the game. Between trying to prevent you from taking the Tempest, to hiring mercenaries due to her lack of trust in you, her ineptitude with Spender and how that entire situation causes the Pathfinder even greater inconvenience, etc.. Addison is nothing more than a pessimistic, inept, walking disaster that serves no purpose other than causing problems for the player to solve. Kesh is at least likable and Tann is pragmatic and understanding, even if he has ulterior motives. Addison, without a doubt, is the new Udina. Unfortunately, she shows up far more often than Udina ever did. I don't think Addison really has the makings of a new Udina, especially considering that unlike that prickly little shit, she actually comes around in the end, whereas Udina gets the grave he deserves, and by grave, I assume being jettisoned into space without even so much as a body bag. That's still yet to be determined, as far as I'm concerned. Udina progressively got worse over the duration of the trilogy. Addison already started out as a disaster just in one game. If Addison makes an appearance in the next two games, I won't be surprised if she becomes an enemy for the Pathfinder. I really don't find her trustworthy at all, and even she makes it abundantly clear that the Pathfinder shouldn't trust anyone.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 13, 2017 7:23:09 GMT
Nexus leadership is not really leadership. It's surviving people filled into roles until they can form a council. At the end of it you get to see that they are aiming for some kind of council. But if we are to compare, in MET I was pretty sick of the council. There was always one intolerant jerk (often the turian) and in three the salarian has a very clear agenda about the krogan (which has always been their big issue, possibly their only one as we see from Tann as well). While the andromeda folks aren't really 'leadership' and are just more like heads of departments you can still see their race beliefs shining through. Tann hates krogan. Kandos is pro military. Kesh wants krogans on top or feels slighted when you don't choose krogans over a pathfinder despite them saying they need pathfinders. It's really more of those same issues essentially. New galaxy. No changes except now you get a new race that can weigh in on things. Frankly, I wanted to give it to Moesha because she seems like she might have a much better perspective and yeah they were their first as well as it was basically designed for them. Perhaps her fresh perspective might give us something new instead of a council we have to ignore or hang up on.
Certainly, the angara will be part of any Council that is eventually formed, if they wish. (I believe they will wish it so, with all that happens in MEA; and with the kett invasion still underway.) Whether it's within the Moshae's lifetime, or not, we'll see. She's very old. I chose her to be Meridian Ambassador to the Nexus, in my first playthrough. (I've only completed the one.) It seemed a great way to ensure that an amicable partnership continues. It was also my attempt at roping the angara into our society, to be honest. The quicker they trust us, and fully integrate with the AI society, the better. She was also clearly more qualified than any other candidates offered me. And if they don't? If they don't want to have one vote against six votes of outsiders? If they ask Nexus to leave Voeld and demand equal access to *ahem* last found planet? What then? Heh, just kidding, angara are good aliens, there is no reason for good aliens to not join our confederation.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 13, 2017 7:47:01 GMT
One was dismissive and in their dismissivness endangered the entire galaxy and the other was incompetant and overwhelmed. Not sure which was worse
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 13, 2017 8:15:06 GMT
Nexus Leadership.
Because there's actually hope they can get better.
(Even if, theoretically, some pseudo-canonical weird ruin ending to ME3 happens, and Citadel Council is behind the Ai so life is saved, they're still dismissive above-everyone entities, even if for some good reasons.)
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Post by Duke Cameron on Apr 13, 2017 8:17:35 GMT
Voted for the Nexus Leaders
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 13, 2017 8:18:21 GMT
I prefer the Citadel Council although it has nothing to do with them being "better leaders." They were a worthless governmental body that was far too constrained to ever meddle in my affairs. Whereas the Nexus leadership (Addison especially) constantly gets involved and is a hindrance rather than a benefit. Though it should be granted that you more constantly get involved with their affairs than in the trilogy. Ryder is more of a civilization leader, in his way.
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 13, 2017 8:24:20 GMT
At least the citadel council has an Asari who's easy on the eyes, Nexus has Kesh... and Addison.
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Post by rasande on Apr 13, 2017 8:44:38 GMT
It will be a cold day in hell before i vote for Counselor Air Quotes
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 13, 2017 12:02:21 GMT
Honestly guys, I think Scott needs to just take one for the team, and screw Addison's brains out. I think that's her biggest problem really. Shes just sooo stressed out
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 12:04:38 GMT
Both are idiot dipshits on equal level
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 13, 2017 12:05:10 GMT
Honestly guys, I think Scott needs to just take one for the team, and screw Addison's brains out. I think that's her biggest problem really. Shes just sooo stressed out Don't want Alec's used goods tbh
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