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Post by Fogg on Apr 14, 2017 21:46:59 GMT
It's funny that the official lore answer is given early in this thread and people still come up with their own explanations.
Nakmor clan worked on Andromeda Initiative, Garson liked them, they wanted to escape Tuschanka and Garson took them along.
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LilTIM
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Post by LilTIM on Apr 15, 2017 10:50:40 GMT
It's funny that the official lore answer is given early in this thread and people still come up with their own explanations. Nakmor clan worked on Andromeda Initiative, Garson liked them, they wanted to escape Tuschanka and Garson took them along. How did Nakmor clan get contracted to work on the AI? Where did Nakmor get all those krogan engineers? Why Garson is sympathetic to krogans? How did she made the salarians and turians "anti-krogan" members agree to it? And how did Morda manage the AI to not only bring her clan, but to help CURE THE GENOPHAGE too? You know that disease that if cured would allow krogan to outnumber 100:1 all other races in a few years. Please tell me where all that is explained on official lore. Last time Nakmor was mentioned in ME2, they were a small weak clan and in ME3 they are conquered by Wrex early on.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 15, 2017 13:13:15 GMT
It's funny that the official lore answer is given early in this thread and people still come up with their own explanations. Nakmor clan worked on Andromeda Initiative, Garson liked them, they wanted to escape Tuschanka and Garson took them along. How did Nakmor clan get contracted to work on the AI? Where did Nakmor get all those krogan engineers? Why Garson is sympathetic to krogans? How did she made the salarians and turians "anti-krogan" members agree to it? And how did Morda manage the AI to not only bring her clan, but to help CURE THE GENOPHAGE too? You know that disease that if cured would allow krogan to outnumber 100:1 all other races in a few years. Please tell me where all that is explained on official lore. Last time Nakmor was mentioned in ME2, they were a small weak clan and in ME3 they are conquered by Wrex early on. I don't think the others had to agree with anything. It was Jien's decision alone to bring them on board. Besides, when you've already thrown away your Milky Way life to commit to the AI, why wouldn't you move forward? The genophage hasn't been cured. It's become less effective. We already knew this was happening; see the Mordin Solus loyalty mission for details. Perhaps a great number of this clan weren't on Tuchanka when STG did their work to reinvigorate the genophage. However, yes, the survival rate of krogan births has increased by 400% from 0.1% to 4% thanks to gene therapy administered during the journey to Andromeda. (Some have cried bullshit on gene therapy during cryo but BioWare ignores that kind of thing.) This still means 96 out of every 100 krogan do not survive being born. Obviously we don't know everything but some wild guesses....perhaps Clan Nakmor was weak on Tuchanka because a lot of its members were building the Nexus.
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Post by kleindropper on Apr 15, 2017 13:30:57 GMT
Because it was easier for EA to re-use krogan assets rather than creating a new alien race. Its the same reason you are killing thousands of human "raiders" despite the fact that there are only 20,000 humans in the entire galaxy
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Post by Elsariel on Apr 15, 2017 14:05:38 GMT
Because it was easier for EA to re-use krogan assets rather than creating a new alien race. Its the same reason you are killing thousands of human "raiders" despite the fact that there are only 20,000 humans in the entire galaxy Were there really thousands of humans though? Weren't some of them Asari and Turian? I recall and endless supply of Kett and quite a few Roekaar but not too many exiles unless you're on Kadara. Edit: Or Eladaan, I suppose.
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Post by turianlannister on Apr 16, 2017 17:21:36 GMT
Because it was easier for EA to re-use krogan assets rather than creating a new alien race. Its the same reason you are killing thousands of human "raiders" despite the fact that there are only 20,000 humans in the entire galaxy Were there really thousands of humans though? Weren't some of them Asari and Turian? I recall and endless supply of Kett and quite a few Roekaar but not too many exiles unless you're on Kadara. Edit: Or Eladaan, I suppose. Pretty sure there were a few on Havarl as well
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 16, 2017 21:18:24 GMT
Because the devs really like the krogan for some reason and didn't want to get rid of tem.
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timebean
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Post by timebean on Apr 16, 2017 21:28:36 GMT
Because the game would have sucked without them.
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Post by LogicGunn on Apr 16, 2017 22:52:46 GMT
"I don't need an army. I have a Krogan."
They are an important race and there is no reason to exclude them. Just because they don't come to heel for the Salarians doesn't make them barbaric. They destroyed their own world way back, probably learned a hard lesson from that.
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Post by raikas on Apr 17, 2017 1:20:59 GMT
I think it's too bad that they didn't include more of the background that's shown in the book in the game itself. Considering that they created all this backstory, I don't see why they wouldn't at least have a decent length codex entry with a summary. After all, significantly more people are going to play the game than read the book, so wouldn't the writers want people to know that they actually did come up with a rationale?
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Post by kenshen19 on Apr 17, 2017 1:49:56 GMT
Drack seems to be the exception when it comes to the Krogan who made the trip. Out of all the exiles I killed there were very few Krogan among them. From what I saw they seem to be mostly scientist and engineers which makes a lot of sense considering the plan and what they have accomplished on Elaaden IMO is quite impressive. Drack even says Krogan like Vorn are the future and ones like him have no place going forward. Some of that is probably self pity but that is also the same kind of vision Wrex had. I like this side of the Krogan.
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Post by melisan on Apr 17, 2017 1:51:11 GMT
I doubt that it's a matter of who "Chose" what race to participate, rather than who has the assets to participate.
The AI was underfunded until the benefactor joined in. It wasn't an official Council project, though it may have required sanctions and some funding support. These were Civilian Explorers. Not Council.
So, if a Race wanted to participate in the Andromeda Initiative, they would have had to
1) had enough assets to pitch in, either in form of resources (Monetary or not, including labor, materials or skills).
2) could rally enough participants to propel a racial propagation (It wouldn't do to transplant a hundred krogans.)
hence, the most likely races fell to those major races, Asari, Turians, Salarians. Humans also pitch in.
My only qualms about this is that after the finale, Asari have recovered most of their Ark, and though diminished the Turians still have about 10,000 to 15,000. The Salarians only need a smaller number to propagate, and they still have recovered their ark. I get that through Drack, we've seen that the Krogan can live practically as long as nothing kills them. Still, the Viable count to propagate a species requires more than robustness, but genetic variability, which in-coda humans have been pegged as most diverse, and most other species less so.
Furthermore, there is no Krogan Ark. Krogan are seeded along the Nexus, and possibly other Arks(?), and I don't think that the Nexus carried anything north of 10,000 Krogan. Typically a Minimum Viable Population is considered around the 5,000 head count, accounting for genetic diversity. Adding into these figures is the sterility of the Krogan with a rate of 4% to avoid stillbirth (improved from 0.1% to avoid stillbirth for Milkyway pre ME3 Krogan, due to Cryosleep Gene therapy). That is still one in twenty five surviving.
In contrast, Human Real life stillbirth rate is 0.5%, that is 99.5% chance to avoid stillbirth.
That still a ballpark figure of 125,000 Krogan required to overcome the residual effects of the genophage and ensure they can avoid incest. And these figures are not a midterm goal, but an initial requirement (Genetic diversity, not population expansion).
So while 1) Resources, could have been overcome by a sudden out of the blue Nakmor engineering, 2) Minimum Viability Count does not suffice.
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Post by zeypher on Apr 17, 2017 6:05:16 GMT
I doubt that it's a matter of who "Chose" what race to participate, rather than who has the assets to participate. The AI was underfunded until the benefactor joined in. It wasn't an official Council project, though it may have required sanctions and some funding support. These were Civilian Explorers. Not Council. So, if a Race wanted to participate in the Andromeda Initiative, they would have had to 1) had enough assets to pitch in, either in form of resources (Monetary or not, including labor, materials or skills). 2) could rally enough participants to propel a racial propagation (It wouldn't do to transplant a hundred krogans.) hence, the most likely races fell to those major races, Asari, Turians, Salarians. Humans also pitch in. My only qualms about this is that after the finale, Asari have recovered most of their Ark, and though diminished the Turians still have about 10,000 to 15,000. The Salarians only need a smaller number to propagate, and they still have recovered their ark. I get that through Drack, we've seen that the Krogan can live practically as long as nothing kills them. Still, the Viable count to propagate a species requires more than robustness, but genetic variability, which in-coda humans have been pegged as most diverse, and most other species less so. Furthermore, there is no Krogan Ark. Krogan are seeded along the Nexus, and possibly other Arks(?), and I don't think that the Nexus carried anything north of 10,000 Krogan. Typically a Minimum Viable Population is considered around the 5,000 head count, accounting for genetic diversity. Adding into these figures is the sterility of the Krogan with a rate of 4% to avoid stillbirth (improved from 0.1% to avoid stillbirth for Milkyway pre ME3 Krogan, due to Cryosleep Gene therapy). That is still one in twenty five surviving. In contrast, Human Real life stillbirth rate is 0.5%, that is 99.5% chance to avoid stillbirth. That still a ballpark figure of 125,000 Krogan required to overcome the residual effects of the genophage and ensure they can avoid incest. And these figures are not a midterm goal, but an initial requirement (Genetic diversity, not population expansion). So while 1) Resources, could have been overcome by a sudden out of the blue Nakmor engineering, 2) Minimum Viability Count does not suffice. New advances in our current understanding of genetics that is no longer and issue and it definitely wont be an issue for ME levels of tech. What you state is basically an outdated method when we had no grasp of genetics and stem cells. an example of what i mean: From economist
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Post by melisan on Apr 17, 2017 9:00:24 GMT
I doubt that it's a matter of who "Chose" what race to participate, rather than who has the assets to participate. The AI was underfunded until the benefactor joined in. It wasn't an official Council project, though it may have required sanctions and some funding support. These were Civilian Explorers. Not Council. So, if a Race wanted to participate in the Andromeda Initiative, they would have had to 1) had enough assets to pitch in, either in form of resources (Monetary or not, including labor, materials or skills). 2) could rally enough participants to propel a racial propagation (It wouldn't do to transplant a hundred krogans.) hence, the most likely races fell to those major races, Asari, Turians, Salarians. Humans also pitch in. My only qualms about this is that after the finale, Asari have recovered most of their Ark, and though diminished the Turians still have about 10,000 to 15,000. The Salarians only need a smaller number to propagate, and they still have recovered their ark. I get that through Drack, we've seen that the Krogan can live practically as long as nothing kills them. Still, the Viable count to propagate a species requires more than robustness, but genetic variability, which in-coda humans have been pegged as most diverse, and most other species less so. Furthermore, there is no Krogan Ark. Krogan are seeded along the Nexus, and possibly other Arks(?), and I don't think that the Nexus carried anything north of 10,000 Krogan. Typically a Minimum Viable Population is considered around the 5,000 head count, accounting for genetic diversity. Adding into these figures is the sterility of the Krogan with a rate of 4% to avoid stillbirth (improved from 0.1% to avoid stillbirth for Milkyway pre ME3 Krogan, due to Cryosleep Gene therapy). That is still one in twenty five surviving. In contrast, Human Real life stillbirth rate is 0.5%, that is 99.5% chance to avoid stillbirth. That still a ballpark figure of 125,000 Krogan required to overcome the residual effects of the genophage and ensure they can avoid incest. And these figures are not a midterm goal, but an initial requirement (Genetic diversity, not population expansion). So while 1) Resources, could have been overcome by a sudden out of the blue Nakmor engineering, 2) Minimum Viability Count does not suffice. New advances in our current understanding of genetics that is no longer and issue and it definitely wont be an issue for ME levels of tech. What you state is basically an outdated method when we had no grasp of genetics and stem cells. an example of what i mean: From economistI AM talking about ME level tech, following in-game logic of the "Genophage" only adding basic arithmetic. If you're going to throw at me citations on somatic cell germ line transformation for the purpose of creating a zygote in a sterile subject, then i have to ask you why didn't the Krogan do this yet to cure the Genophage? The percentage of 0.1% to 4% stillbirth avoidance was lifted from the Codex. The only Out of Canon numeric are the Minimum Viable Population, which however is concurred by in game dialogue that considers people of the Hyperion hard pressed and considers every viable member required to procreate. Even without the math, you have to wonder what ship the Krogan came in on with enough numbers to procreate - given their not completely cured Genophage - given they don't have their own Ark P.S. And what do you mean by "what you state is an outdated method when we had no grasp on genetics and stem cells"? Population genetics and variations are the fulcrum of all that we know about ... well... genetics. These statistics are numbers that were given since genetics became a thing. If you were a serious geneticist, or at least had any higher level education in biology, you wouldn't discount the population statistics aspect of Genetics, since it's basically the bread and butter of genetics. Here's a recent Article, published in 2014, which I believe is a time that was blessed by the enlightenment of genetics and stem cells. Acta Astronautica 2014: 97; 16–29 Estimation of a genetically viable population for multigenerational interstellar voyaging: Review and data for project Hyperion !!! The study estimates an interstellar travel for 150 years and 5 generations require a population 14,000 to 44,000 people, considering for increasing chances of inbreeding, depresssion etc. P.P.S. The iPS methods for creating somatic stem cells aren't really that viable or magical. It's also one of the lines of research that is muddled in a lot of hoaxes and controversies. Especially since the very next month on the article you cited (Jan 2016) Japan was embroiled in one of their biggest stem cell frauds (Feb 2016). So, while this has less to do with Mass Effect (Let me make it clear, I'm not the one who cited 'Stem Cells' or other modern tech, here) I find it amusing that you've cherrypicked that particular example.
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Post by zeypher on Apr 17, 2017 9:39:18 GMT
Im saying its easily possible if one approximates their understanding of growth in science. Besides i still think bringing the Krogan along was a stupid idea. As a race from a design standpoint they will always be problematic. Bioware should have used their chance of a reboot to remove the krogan. Definitely would have saved them trouble down the line.
Now to compound it they bringing quarians as well a species worst suited to colonisation.
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Post by sdzald on Apr 17, 2017 16:23:28 GMT
Because it was easier for EA to re-use krogan assets rather than creating a new alien race. Its the same reason you are killing thousands of human "raiders" despite the fact that there are only 20,000 humans in the entire galaxy Well then someone must be doing a lot of cloning. I must have killed that many just in random camps as I drive around, and there never seems to be an end to Outcasts, Collective, Salvager's , Outlaws etc.
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