cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Apr 13, 2017 12:21:02 GMT
I've said in several threads how much I was disappointed in the fact that they built up this whole Pathfinder thing, but by the time you got there planets were already settled, first contacts had already been made, etc.
Imagine this:
You arrive on the Nexus, brand new cluster, and you're allowed to go down, first boots on the ground period as far as Initiative is concerned. You do things like scan the water, ground, minerals, and access the planet for the best places the put outposts and start colonies. Then the survival of said colony depends on how well you did it.
You could have had a set finite amount of resources to start and you have pick how much of your military units go in which outpost, where your scientists go, and the viability of your colonies goes up or down depending on these decisions because putting scientists int he right places may speed up development of new tech based on what was studied where, or a colony may fail because you a colony in a place with a heavy Kett presence and didn't put enough military there.
This way mining and scanning things would have purpose for developing your colonies. Which cryo pods you open would have a purpose in game, not just to get your characters some perks. Quests could have been tied to doing specific things for your colony, or to build alliances, acquiring resources you need to manage.
The more resources and research you get, the more colonies you can start as you go through the planets. You could still have revolts and people who go into exile, you could have still had the vaults and the Kett involved on some worlds. But you would not have needed the whole terra forming aspect because you would be increasing the viability of your colonies through your actions. The vaults could have done something else.
You could have made first contacts and negotiated areas for your people to go. Maybe have to chose sides between two races, make alliances for protection on a world and not have to use your resources. But then, maybe this this bars you from having a colony on another world with a race that has some tension with the one you allied with. They could then open up quests designed to bring those people together in some way.
You could have still had everything with your dad go down the same on the first mission, and everything with your brother be the same. Still discover remnant tech on worlds, you just would have had a bigger role in the actually studying and finding good places for people to settle in Andromeda.
Just my thought on it, feel free to disagree.
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Post by SofNascimento on Apr 13, 2017 12:23:40 GMT
I would settle for a game that let me create different Ryders, and not only one house made.
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Post by sincro on Apr 13, 2017 14:12:22 GMT
We could call that game Mass Effect: Civilization.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 14:13:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 14:15:16 GMT
We could call that game Mass Effect: Civilization. I was thinking minecraft, lol, but I guess civilizations are closer. To the OP: I was okay with settlements being handled the way they were in the game, but going forward it is possible we will have an unpopulated cluster with different things for Pathfinder to do.
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Apr 13, 2017 14:36:52 GMT
We could call that game Mass Effect: Civilization. I was thinking minecraft, lol, but I guess civilizations are closer. To the OP: I was okay with settlements being handled the way they were in the game, but going forward it is possible we will have an unpopulated cluster with different things for Pathfinder to do. I wasn't talking anything that in depth. I was thinking more of like ME3 when you had to decide to use resources to rescue escape pods or salvage the Geth ship, that kind of thing. But instead of just getting some galactic readiness points, or opening cryo pods to get some credits on minerals delivered every so often, this stuff would have actually had a real effect on the game and the success of the colonies.
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Post by admiralbonetopickmk2 on Apr 13, 2017 14:48:03 GMT
Its interesting, as this is what i thought would happen when i first heard of the details of the game(this is back when Andromeda was still known as ME4). I thought there'd be like a Mass Effect take on the Star Trek Prime Directive, and that they would've took inspiration from & worked our real life history of the age of discovery & colonisation(with all the consequences of that(whether negative or positive, it could be upto the player to decide), all the ramifications we're still dealing with today) into the game. Things like interesting first contact scenarios, ethical questions, genocide, stealing of land, conflict etc etc... lots of meaty issues ME:A couldve looked into, shined a sci-fi light on. But the game fails at that imo. It shys away from dealing with that subject matter. It fails on one of the core pillars of its theme/plot. Its rather disappointing tbh. I mean there's so much they could've done with it, but they didnt.
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Post by fchopin on Apr 13, 2017 14:55:43 GMT
Yes it would have been great if we could play as a pathfinder but instead everything was set before and we have to run around to see what was planned and settled by other people.
What happened to the exploration we were promised before to find suitable planets for our people or were they all lies?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 15:00:06 GMT
Its interesting, as this is what i thought would happen when i first heard of the details of the game(this is back when Andromeda was still known as ME4). I thought there'd be like a Mass Effect take on the Star Trek Prime Directive, and that they would've took inspiration from & worked our real life history of the age of discovery & colonisation(with all the consequences of that(whether negative or positive, it could be upto the player to decide), all the ramifications we're still dealing with today), interesting first contact scenarios, ethical questions, genocide, stealing of land, conflict etc etc... lots of meaty issues ME:A couldve looked into, shined a sci-fi light on. But the game fails at that imo. It shys away from dealing with that subject matter. It fails on one of the core pillars of its theme/plot. Its rather disappointing tbh. I mean there's so much they could've done with it, but they didnt. I expected more of Voayger as well, but I am okay with the quest for the promissed land. We are set though with a hub on Meridian to strike in many directions.
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myalzalean
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Post by myalzalean on Apr 13, 2017 15:42:11 GMT
As much as making MEA a colonization simulator may appeal to me I think there would be even more complaints about the game being dull or boring than there already are.
Ideally the Andromeda Initiative was supposed to go very much like the OP described but it seems Bioware chose to try and put Ryder more into crisis and damage control mode than being a true pathfinder or pioneer.
If everything is going according to plan, well where is the fun in that? Instead we need to have everything go to hell and leave it up to the protagonist and his team of misfits to make everything right because, damn it, they are the only ones who can! Except then the game goes on and fails to really ever instill that sense of urgency or importance effectively.
As much as I like the game and enjoying playing it, the writing team could have done a much better job of making the situation seem more dire during the first part of the game to really set the hook for the players.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 19:08:30 GMT
@op: I would have liked more of what you describe, but then I really enjoy strategy games. That kind of gameplay doesn't work very well for something that needs to maintain world state, convey a specific story, or include loads and loads of combat. If you screw up in a strategy game, you can easily start over without losing much. Imagine colonies failing after you've invested 40-60 hours in a playthrough; players would be livid. As much as making MEA a colonization simulator may appeal to me I think there would be even more complaints about the game being dull or boring than there already are. Ideally the Andromeda Initiative was supposed to go very much like the OP described but it seems Bioware chose to try and put Ryder more into crisis and damage control mode than being a true pathfinder or pioneer. If everything is going according to plan, well where is the fun in that? Instead we need to have everything go to hell and leave it up to the protagonist and his team of misfits to make everything right because, damn it, they are the only ones who can! Except then the game goes on and fails to really ever instill that sense of urgency or importance effectively. I thought they handled urgency / importance very well - much better than ME1, in fact. Chasing Saren was portrayed as a 'Race Against Time', which made doing any of the side content a bit illogical unless you found some other way to justify it. And once you'd defeated Saren/Sovereign, it was game over. In MEA, we're juggling multiple priorities, and I think that where your Ryder chooses to focus her efforts provides role-playing opportunities: -- Establishing outposts apparently provides more resources, research, food supplies to the Nexus. -- Raising planetary viability beyond the minimum would ostensibly give outposts a greater chance of success. -- The other 3 arks are missing. -- You have to jump through some hoops to gain the trust of the angarans. -- Both the kett and the roekker present a clear and present danger to the Ai. It seemed plenty dire to me - they had to leave a lot of people in stasis due to lack of resources, the golden worlds weren't, the Hyperion took some damage and lost some pods, food rations were running low, and once they docked at the Nexus, they found that it had suffered an uprising and had controversial leadership, etc. The survival of the entire Ai was imperiled.
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Post by suikoden on Apr 13, 2017 19:13:34 GMT
I think the Montreal team realized their limitations and went for the easiest options wherever they could.
They doubled down on what they thought they were good at (dialogue) after years of successful online fan-fiction careers, only things didn't turn out as planned.
You don't hear them bragging about the dialogue anymore, and all the leads have gone into recluse on Twitter after reviews shattered their illusions.
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Post by myalzalean on Apr 13, 2017 19:54:15 GMT
It seemed plenty dire to me - they had to leave a lot of people in stasis due to lack of resources, the golden worlds weren't, the Hyperion took some damage and lost some pods, food rations were running low, and once they docked at the Nexus, they found that it had suffered an uprising and had controversial leadership, etc. The survival of the entire Ai was imperiled. I guess what I'm saying is that the narrative was there but there wasn't much the game did to make anyone take that narrative seriously and raise the stakes per se. For example if you waited too long on certain missions in ME3 the consequences were severe enough that most players took that as a wake up call to start paying more attention. I know I did the first time I didn't go investigate something my comm officer pointed out to me and by the time I got around to it, it was too late. The outpost choice on Eos seems to be a major decision but only results in a couple of different npc dialogues back on the Nexus. It would have been much more effective to have either Kesh or Kandros start to question your judgement as a pathfinder and start to campaign against you. It doesn't even have to result in much more than an annoying but constant reminder that anything and everything your pathfinder decides is going to be scrutinized and second guessed by a lot of people. I know there are a lot of decisions later on in the game that have much more significant consequences, but I am referring to the early game where you are still trying to make an impression on the player. Prove it to the player in the early game that their decisions matter and that there are real consequences for not acknowledging the urgency of the situation and more players would likely stick with the game longer.
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midnightwolf
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Post by midnightwolf on Apr 13, 2017 20:10:15 GMT
While I like your ideas. We would have ended up with nothing but complaints from people comparing it to Fallout 4's crap settlement system. Which works great in theory, but not so much in practice!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 21:21:05 GMT
It seemed plenty dire to me - they had to leave a lot of people in stasis due to lack of resources, the golden worlds weren't, the Hyperion took some damage and lost some pods, food rations were running low, and once they docked at the Nexus, they found that it had suffered an uprising and had controversial leadership, etc. The survival of the entire Ai was imperiled. I guess what I'm saying is that the narrative was there but there wasn't much the game did to make anyone take that narrative seriously and raise the stakes per se. That's a fair point, but I prefer it that way. I don't like being pushed to approach game objectives in a particular step-by-step fashion, and sort of resent it when devs insist on telling me their story, their way. I'm rather an old school RPG-er who views RPGs not as something that allows me the privilege of playing through a previously designed experience, but rather a toolset that allows me to create my own character's narrative. Besides, I'm one of those folks who is highly internally motivated. I'm not going to go to the kitchen to get a snack if the living room is on fire. IIRC, the military versus science outpost decision did receive some feedback. I suppose they could have raised the stakes by making it more severe. For example - receiving some scientific breakthrough (maybe a pile of research points) at the cost of losing some colonists and/or needing to make frequent visits to defend them.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 14, 2017 15:17:49 GMT
Given how terrible the mini-games tend to be (Remnant Sudoku, anyone?) I would expect the reality of something like this to be a grinding mechanic of some kind.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 14, 2017 15:24:10 GMT
"Customizing skyhold and growing the inquisition" never amounted to anything noteworthy in DA:I so I just took all their talk about the metagame stuff with a grain of salt. I'm kinda glad the Nexus just changes depending on how far you are in the story.
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Post by adelthorne on Apr 14, 2017 15:56:34 GMT
I've said in several threads how much I was disappointed in the fact that they built up this whole Pathfinder thing, but by the time you got there planets were already settled, first contacts had already been made, etc. Imagine this: You arrive on the Nexus, brand new cluster, and you're allowed to go down, first boots on the ground period as far as Initiative is concerned. You do things like scan the water, ground, minerals, and access the planet for the best places the put outposts and start colonies. Then the survival of said colony depends on how well you did it. You could have had a set finite amount of resources to start and you have pick how much of your military units go in which outpost, where your scientists go, and the viability of your colonies goes up or down depending on these decisions because putting scientists int he right places may speed up development of new tech based on what was studied where, or a colony may fail because you a colony in a place with a heavy Kett presence and didn't put enough military there. This way mining and scanning things would have purpose for developing your colonies. Which cryo pods you open would have a purpose in game, not just to get your characters some perks. Quests could have been tied to doing specific things for your colony, or to build alliances, acquiring resources you need to manage. The more resources and research you get, the more colonies you can start as you go through the planets. You could still have revolts and people who go into exile, you could have still had the vaults and the Kett involved on some worlds. But you would not have needed the whole terra forming aspect because you would be increasing the viability of your colonies through your actions. The vaults could have done something else. You could have made first contacts and negotiated areas for your people to go. Maybe have to chose sides between two races, make alliances for protection on a world and not have to use your resources. But then, maybe this this bars you from having a colony on another world with a race that has some tension with the one you allied with. They could then open up quests designed to bring those people together in some way. You could have still had everything with your dad go down the same on the first mission, and everything with your brother be the same. Still discover remnant tech on worlds, you just would have had a bigger role in the actually studying and finding good places for people to settle in Andromeda. Just my thought on it, feel free to disagree. Totaly with you here. +2
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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Apr 14, 2017 17:01:59 GMT
I'm with you, buddy... I didn't really expect to be exactly detailed as that, but at least better than what we got. We can dream
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