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Post by NRieh on Apr 14, 2017 9:21:51 GMT
I'm aware of the late (80+) scaling issues, but I'm far from that point just yet (lv 39). May be it's just me, I'd love to hear from the other players too.
Yesterday night I've played the H-047c (planetary missions + Vetra's quest).
I had a strong feeling that killing things took longer than it used to (e.g. on Kadara or during the Jaal's mission which I had played the night before).
I'm a bio\tech 'sentinel', with maxed overload\incinirate\pull and all my tech passives, angara tech gear with power&combo mods (tier 5), carniflex 5 being the primary weapon, Vetra and Liam as a squad. Playing on normal.
I could barely strip the sniper's shield in one hit, and normal mobs could easily survive the combo. Those bloody turrets? It was like I could not damage them at all, with neither of my powers (and it took awhile to gun them down).
What the hell was that? Is it a difficulty\gear spike (as I'm getting close to lv40\tier 6)? A bug? A feature? Somewhere mid\late 20th lvs I was feeling like it's becoming way to fast&easy, almost like playing tech-caster in ME3, which was fine by me. I did really not expect to face the bullet\power sponges later on.
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Post by zeypher on Apr 14, 2017 9:38:16 GMT
It does as powers and detonations have a low limit which one can reach fairly early. It requires you to keep your gear updated at every 10 levels or things start taking longer to die. AT 80 and beyond every level starts making you weaker. The games scaling is out of whack, kinda like borderlands 2 in uvhm mode where you start to realise a lot of stuff just does not work.
If one focuses on a particular profile and playstyle the camp in terms of profile growth stop at level 39-40. But yes, sorry but his is going to be your experience from now on. Thats just how they have scaled stuff.
Game is designed to be played at level 20, profiles are basically switching between 4 level 20 characters. Scaling balance breaks after that level slowly and at it it gets completely smashed at 80 and beyond.
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Post by parnashwind on Apr 14, 2017 10:22:46 GMT
From my own experience, there will be a little bit of spike when you are close to reaching the next tier. 39-41/49-51/etc.
I am level 90+ and I have not experienced a huge enough spike that makes things much harder to kill - usually the difference is that they will be left with a few pixels of health instead of dying outright. I am however starting to feel that enemies are becoming a bit more resilient and I am sure in say ~10 levels, they will become bullet sponges.
I think if you keep to a specialize build, you will have less spikes. The passives in this game is such that the more points you invest into a certain skill tree, the more powerful the skills become. for example: A fully upgraded skill tree can grant more than 2x the passive bonus as compared to when you start out.
Once you have fully unlocked a skill tree, well that is when things will start to go uphill.
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Post by PillarBiter on Apr 14, 2017 10:26:57 GMT
I'm level 63 and never really encountered such a spike. neither for my weapons nor my combos.
Maybe beyond 80 it gradually becomes more difficult, but at 40 it really shoudlnt...
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Post by R1Outcast on Apr 14, 2017 11:34:48 GMT
One important thing to keep in mind is that the percentage bonuses continue to increase based on how many points you have invested in a particular tree.
Example: With only the first level of OFFENSIVE BIOTICS, there is a 2% increase to biotic damage however; with a maxed BIOTICS tree (252 points invested), that 2% becomes 40%.
So getting to level 80 (max gear level currently) doesn't necessarily mean you've hit a brick wall in terms of progression. You don't truly hit that "brick wall" until you've completely maxed any given tree.
Many of the COMBAT tree weapon damage increases work the same. So your weapon damage will continue to climb until you've completely maxed the COMBAT tree. Same goes for the TECH tree.
Also keep in mind that profile bonuses are multiplying your already multiplied stats.
If you're experiencing a difficulty spike, you may want to consider focusing on one or two trees to maximize their bonuses.
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Post by tatsumaki on Apr 14, 2017 12:07:11 GMT
I'm aware of the late (80+) scaling issues, but I'm far from that point just yet (lv 39). May be it's just me, I'd love to hear from the other players too. Yesterday night I've played the H-047c (planetary missions + Vetra's quest). I had a strong feeling that killing things took longer than it used to (e.g. on Kadara or during the Jaal's mission which I had played the night before). I'm a bio\tech 'sentinel', with maxed overload\incinirate\pull and all my tech passives, angara tech gear with power&combo mods (tier 5), carniflex 5 being the primary weapon, Vetra and Liam as a squad. Playing on normal. I could barely strip the sniper's shield in one hit, and normal mobs could easily survive the combo. Those bloody turrets? It was like I could not damage them at all, with neither of my powers (and it took awhile to gun them down). What the hell was that? Is it a difficulty\gear spike (as I'm getting close to lv40\tier 6)? A bug? A feature? Somewhere mid\late 20th lvs I was feeling like it's becoming way to fast&easy, almost like playing tech-caster in ME3, which was fine by me. I did really not expect to face the bullet\power sponges later on. Please don't take this the wrong way but here are some suggestions to improve your TTK (Time To Kill) [This comes from Multiplayer Gold difficulty which is more diffiicult than insanity (non-scaling) ] Most of the weapons given are actually lackluster. The only weapon worth using in no particular order are: Vanquisher Black Widow Piranha Hurricane Since you mentioned Sentinel build I suggest going with Incinerate, Energy Drain, Throw. Overload is really bad. Irrespective of any evolution it no longer strips fulll shields off any enemy. You mentioned that you're running NG+ therefore I speculate you would have sufficient spending credits. Buy and stock up loads of incendiary ammunition. SkillsEvolve Incinerate to 'Prime on first hit". Evolve Energy Drain to "Lasting drain (or whatever its called) to also prime targets. ComboEquip fire ammo and shoot with Hurricane. Why Hurricane? Its a high DPS gun with high ROF that primes quick. Follow up with Energy Drain->Incinerate->Throw all in rapid succession. You would have 4 tech combos there. With mods and armor you have focus on CDR (cooldown reduction) and just keep repeating that. If its a shielded target then Energy Drain->Incinerate->Throw You can also equip disruptor ammunition but shields shouldn't be a big problem. You have Vetra to prime disruptor for you to execute your tech combos  |
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Post by PillarBiter on Apr 14, 2017 12:18:51 GMT
I'm aware of the late (80+) scaling issues, but I'm far from that point just yet (lv 39). May be it's just me, I'd love to hear from the other players too. Yesterday night I've played the H-047c (planetary missions + Vetra's quest). I had a strong feeling that killing things took longer than it used to (e.g. on Kadara or during the Jaal's mission which I had played the night before). I'm a bio\tech 'sentinel', with maxed overload\incinirate\pull and all my tech passives, angara tech gear with power&combo mods (tier 5), carniflex 5 being the primary weapon, Vetra and Liam as a squad. Playing on normal. I could barely strip the sniper's shield in one hit, and normal mobs could easily survive the combo. Those bloody turrets? It was like I could not damage them at all, with neither of my powers (and it took awhile to gun them down). What the hell was that? Is it a difficulty\gear spike (as I'm getting close to lv40\tier 6)? A bug? A feature? Somewhere mid\late 20th lvs I was feeling like it's becoming way to fast&easy, almost like playing tech-caster in ME3, which was fine by me. I did really not expect to face the bullet\power sponges later on. Please don't take this the wrong way but here are some suggestions to improve your TTK (Time To Kill) [This comes from Multiplayer Gold difficulty which is more diffiicult than insanity (non-scaling) ] Most of the weapons given are actually lackluster. The only weapon worth using in no particular order are: Vanquisher Black Widow Piranha Hurricane Since you mentioned Sentinel build I suggest going with Incinerate, Energy Drain, Throw. Overload is really bad. Irrespective of any evolution it no longer strips fulll shields off any enemy. You mentioned that you're running NG+ therefore I speculate you would have sufficient spending credits. Buy and stock up loads of incendiary ammunition. SkillsEvolve Incinerate to 'Prime on first hit". Evolve Energy Drain to "Lasting drain (or whatever its called) to also prime targets. ComboEquip fire ammo and shoot with Hurricane. Why Hurricane? Its a high DPS gun with high ROF that primes quick. Follow up with Energy Drain->Incinerate->Throw all in rapid succession. You would have 4 tech combos there. With mods and armor you have focus on CDR (cooldown reduction) and just keep repeating that. If its a shielded target then Energy Drain->Incinerate->Throw You can also equip disruptor ammunition but shields shouldn't be a big problem. You have Vetra to prime disruptor for you to execute your tech combos Interesting... What makes the vanquisher so good? I prefer revenant to hurricane, it has a higher magazine, and thus my special ammo remains on longer  |
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Post by tatsumaki on Apr 14, 2017 12:24:56 GMT
Vanquisher is lightweight. It also doesn't have slow reload time like the Widow. It used to be over the hill OP with 3x headshot multiplier but now that it is patched, it is still very much viable. It depends on your play style whether you want to sit back and snipe or perform CQC (Close Quarter Combat)
Well yes, the Hurricane's ammunition is tiny but the ROF (rate of fire) more than makes up for it. Revenant suffers greatly in terms of accuracy and damage sadly. It is a former shadow of its bigger brother in ME3. If ammunition is an issue then the other option is the Equalizer. Its fairly decent but again, its a CQC gun.
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NRieh
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Post by NRieh on Apr 14, 2017 13:00:34 GMT
tatsumakiNo idea where did you have it from, as I've mentioned - I'm lv39 (was last night, probably had hit 40 before endign the session), and it's my first PT. I appreciate the tips, though, thanks. It was just weird to have the TTK increased compared to the earlier levels (with less skills and lower gear). Normally it's vice versa - the higher you get the faster things die, even with a scaling. Weapon-wise - I have a thing for 'slow' pistols (Paladine was my ME3 love), I'd hate to switch playstyle preferences just to squeeze some extra DD numbers, is there anything viable enough? As I've mentioned - I'm with the crafted Carniflex right now.
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Post by parnashwind on Apr 14, 2017 13:15:06 GMT
tatsumaki No idea where did you have it from, as I've mentioned - I'm lv39 (was last night, probably had hit 40 before endign the session), and it's my first PT. I appreciate the tips, though, thanks. It was just weird to have the TTK increased compared to the earlier levels (with less skills and lower gear). Normally it's vice versa - the higher you get the faster things die, even with a scaling. Weapon-wise - I have a thing for 'slow' pistols (Paladine was my ME3 love), I'd hate to switch playstyle preferences just to squeeze some extra DD numbers, is there anything viable enough? As I've mentioned - I'm with the crafted Carniflex right now. Problem is that... weapons are not balanced. Some weapons are significantly weaker and less effective than others. There is a slight increase in TTK when you are approaching next tier equipment but it is not very noticeable, meaning all you should notice is you would take one extra bullet to kill something because there is just a little bit of health left as opposed to killing them with a single bullet. Your TTK should improve as you described, higher level, you will kill faster until you go pass a certain level. |
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Post by lastpawn on Apr 14, 2017 13:20:30 GMT
I'm sure someone will eventually look at the code to figure this out, but just as a "feeling" I get the sense that, at least on higher difficulties,
1. Most (not all) weapons feel weak.
2. Virtually all powers feel weak. Combos feel weak, except for Biotic Echoes.
Also the game simply offers more ways of boosting weapon damage. At higher levels, it just makes more sense to take weapon-boosting powers like Charge or Cloak, and roll with that instead of relying on increasingly weaker powers.
In short, as I level up I feel more and more that weapons > powers, though many weapons feel a bit weak, too,
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Post by tatsumaki on Apr 14, 2017 13:35:05 GMT
Whoops sorry I must have confused this thread with another one saying he was NG+ around level 80  Sadly the Carnifex is also only a shadow of its former self (the ME3 version). There was a huge debate on gun DPS on the MP side and pretty much most of the guns are unusable. On Normal difficulty / Bronze, Silver? Yes but not on Gold. There are test also on shotgun pellet spread which isn't being modified by passives and smart choke. |
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Post by DarkBeaver on Apr 17, 2017 18:33:12 GMT
I found the ushior pistol does great damage, but even modded up you only get 2-3 shots max before reloading. Great for that wraith that snuck up on you, though.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 17, 2017 18:52:02 GMT
having problems killing an enemy quickly? Try using the seeker plasma sytem and bio converter augmentations on a weapon. For me it was the piranha. Get turbocharge up to level 6. What that does is increase the damage from the weapon and rate of fire. That's what I did when I did my insanity run
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Post by SentinelBorg on Apr 18, 2017 13:27:34 GMT
All that talk about reloading ... simply use the Bio Converter and shoot away. As a Tech user your HP will regenerate all the time anyway.
And yes, in terms of the power layout, Incinerate, Energy Drain and Throw are by far the best selection if you want to play as a ranged caster with many explosions.
In general this game is badly balanced, with some stuff (like the Bio Converter) being leagues above other things.
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Post by fraggle on Apr 18, 2017 13:39:23 GMT
In general this game is badly balanced, with some stuff (like the Bio Converter) being leagues above other things. Yeah, it's ironic how they gave us more freedom, yet players are punished if they don't want to use the "most powerful" build with the same powers and same weapons to cheese through the game. At this point I prefer the trilogy's class system, at least with this all classes felt equally strong to me. |
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 18, 2017 14:30:33 GMT
I would say that Concussive shot is as viable as Throw, if not more-so. It does more initial damage and has an evolution to do even more damage to shields, so it combos well with Energy Drain to strip shields. On level 60 NG+, with too many spread out points, Energy Drain + Concussive shot removes nearly 75% or more of an Anointed's shields. Followed by a few shots, then incinerate for burning damage and + damage from other sources, and a few more shots, the thing went down pretty quickly.
If I'd had more of my points placed into Tech, my bonuses to power damage and combo damage would have been even higher, and I'm pretty sure ED + CS would have stripped the shields completely.
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Post by Invellous on Apr 18, 2017 14:44:31 GMT
Weapon-wise - I have a thing for 'slow' pistols (Paladine was my ME3 love), I'd hate to switch playstyle preferences just to squeeze some extra DD numbers, is there anything viable enough? As I've mentioned - I'm with the crafted Carniflex right now. If you are looking for a traditional semi-automatic pistol I would suggest the Sidewinder which is what I use on Insanity. It's damage per shot is not as high as the Carnifex but the fire rate is much higher and it has a tight spread. It has a small thermal clip size but that is easily remedied by passives and modifications. It is also attractive to boot, one of the best looking pistols on offer. As others have mentioned not all weapons are made equal and this is true in any game, unfortunately. There are a select few that are solid options most of which have already been listed. I do not think you have to change your playstyle so much as enhance it with complimentary weapons and gear choice is all. |
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Post by zeypher on Apr 18, 2017 14:57:37 GMT
I would say that Concussive shot is as viable as Throw, if not more-so. It does more initial damage and has an evolution to do even more damage to shields, so it combos well with Energy Drain to strip shields. On level 60 NG+, with too many spread out points, Energy Drain + Concussive shot removes nearly 75% or more of an Anointed's shields. Followed by a few shots, then incinerate for burning damage and + damage from other sources, and a few more shots, the thing went down pretty quickly. If I'd had more of my points placed into Tech, my bonuses to power damage and combo damage would have been even higher, and I'm pretty sure ED + CS would have stripped the shields completely. Or just use a grenade which does it a LOT better. I personally find detonations to be weak, even on normal. Now just give me more slots and better combat powers like power armor or avenger strike. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 2:51:57 GMT
I am at level 95 with most skills maxed up.
I still kill enemies without much difficulty but they do become bullet/power sponge. It is rather annoying that I can't have the joy of one shot killing lesser mobs with Dahn, widow or power combo. In addition most tech skills and consumable combat powers feels weaker.
BW should patch the game so that enemy no longer scales after level 80 or allow powers, armours and weapons to scale up beyond lvl 80.
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