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Post by ajscott819 on Apr 14, 2017 19:26:10 GMT
I did a search and then scanned the Resource Library, but couldn't find anything that jumped out at me regarding the enemy spawn mechanics. Is there any rhyme or reason to them? Here are my observations: The initial spawn wave is away from the players and will likely be fractured. Except on objective waves where it will spawn on top of the objective if possible. Once the wave starts the game freely spawns enemies near players and likely behind them. At least that is what it appears to do - it could be that my awareness stinks. I am old, and likely easily flanked.
Beyond that I am wondering about Line of Sight. It feels like I can never break enemy LOS. In ME3 you could break it when in cover and the game mechanics would lift the veil every 7 seconds (IIRC), in MEA I am not sure there is a veil. I watched (should have recorded) two destroyers on a balcony following player progress on players they never had LOS on as they ran through the basement on Derelict. The destroyers fired the whole time tracking their progress. I can't tell you how many times I start to turn a corner and am shot before completing the turn. The unbreakable LOS coupled with the high accuracy is crazy. I want to rage gel, but I still only have a capacity of 2.
If I missed the discussion on these mechanics please point me in the right direction.
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Post by rolenka on Apr 14, 2017 19:30:16 GMT
I have observed that being very close to a spawn point will cause enemies to not spawn there. I think they spawn in the two locations farthest from any players.
They will definitely move toward players if they can't see anyone, but they do not always see everyone. You can sneak up on them if they are facing someone else, even someone else far away.
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Urizen
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Post by Urizen on Apr 14, 2017 19:33:04 GMT
You can block spawns by standing in them at the start of the round and possibly even block them midwave. I definitely have blocked a spawn on Magma several times now. About LOS. Cover alone will not break it. In order for it to break you need to be a) not the only one alive and not in the LOS of any other enemy unit and c) a teammate needs to draw aggro once they have no longer sight of you. I broke LOS a coupla times but only if all 3 reqs were true. But enemies that spawned new during the period where the enemy lost track of you will most likely hunt you down though. So even if you do manage to break it, it only lasts until new enemies spawn.
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Post by gethadept on Apr 14, 2017 19:36:22 GMT
Hmmm.. I am not trying to be mean but I am not sure if there is much to discuss other than to be more aware of red tracking dots.
Yeah, enemies will spawn from all directions as long as spawn points are not occupied or visible to one of active players. They will approach you and surround you as fast as they can.
Enemy LoS is simple matter of AI programming. I don`t think it`s much different from ME3. Only definite way to lose them is to use tactical cloak.
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ajscott819
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Post by ajscott819 on Apr 14, 2017 19:40:49 GMT
Thanks. Just thought of another question and this may impact players just starting out. It seems the game targets weaker players as a priority. I've seen berserkers and chosen move past teammates in the open to flush me out of cover or flank me while my shields were down. Anyone know if the game prioritizes players in a weakened state? Again, I seem to recall ME3 doing this, but this is at an obnoxious rate. The impact to players just starting or casual players would be the bonus stats that the hardcore players get would always make it likely that the lower APEX ranked player would be a priority target. Doesn't seem like the best way to keep casual players involved.
Am I just out of my mind?
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ajscott819
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Post by ajscott819 on Apr 14, 2017 19:41:34 GMT
BTW it is most definitely a L2P issue.
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Post by gethadept on Apr 14, 2017 19:51:36 GMT
Thanks. Just thought of another question and this may impact players just starting out. It seems the game targets weaker players as a priority. I've seen berserkers and chosen move past teammates in the open to flush me out of cover or flank me while my shields were down. Anyone know if the game prioritizes players in a weakened state? Again, I seem to recall ME3 doing this, but this is at an obnoxious rate. The impact to players just starting or casual players would be the bonus stats that the hardcore players get would always make it likely that the lower APEX ranked player would be a priority target. Doesn't seem like the best way to keep casual players involved. Am I just out of my mind? I am fairly sure once they are spawned they lock onto the closest target regardless of their combat ability. We cannot help weakest player going down quicker though. So it might seem like they are targeting weak ones more. They are definitely more persistent than ME3 once locked onto you. In ME3, the enemies often changed the target to the player who is engaging them... but in MEA I find many units constantly chasing me regardless of other players attacking them especially Berserkers. lol I also found many Berserkes just ignoring me to chase other players.. so it might just be their unique Krogan AI.
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Post by Urizen on Apr 14, 2017 19:52:31 GMT
Hmmm.. I am not trying to be mean but I am not sure if there is much to discuss other than to be more aware of red tracking dots. Yeah, enemies will spawn from all directions as long as spawn points are not occupied or visible to one of active players. They will approach you and surround you as fast as they can. Enemy LoS is simple matter of AI programming. I don`t think it`s much different from ME3. Only definite way to lose them is to use tactical cloak. Looking at a spawn does not block it. Had enemies spawn more than once while looking at them directly. Thanks. Just thought of another question and this may impact players just starting out. It seems the game targets weaker players as a priority. I've seen berserkers and chosen move past teammates in the open to flush me out of cover or flank me while my shields were down. Anyone know if the game prioritizes players in a weakened state? Again, I seem to recall ME3 doing this, but this is at an obnoxious rate. The impact to players just starting or casual players would be the bonus stats that the hardcore players get would always make it likely that the lower APEX ranked player would be a priority target. Doesn't seem like the best way to keep casual players involved. Am I just out of my mind? Enemies will split up evenly amongst players at the start of the round. There were rounds where I had a sliver of health and enemies walked right pass me to get to another teammate. However an enemy targeting you and in fact getting your health to critically low values will hunt you down relentlessly.
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Post by bjorndadwarf on Apr 14, 2017 19:53:08 GMT
Thanks. Just thought of another question and this may impact players just starting out. It seems the game targets weaker players as a priority. I've seen berserkers and chosen move past teammates in the open to flush me out of cover or flank me while my shields were down. Anyone know if the game prioritizes players in a weakened state? Again, I seem to recall ME3 doing this, but this is at an obnoxious rate. The impact to players just starting or casual players would be the bonus stats that the hardcore players get would always make it likely that the lower APEX ranked player would be a priority target. Doesn't seem like the best way to keep casual players involved. Am I just out of my mind? I really feel like I'm being stalked sometimes, because a Berserker will decide to chase me and will just not lose aggro. Enemies don't seem easily to change aggro barring Tactical Cloak being activated, even if there are better/easier/faster targets near them. I don't think it's a weakened state thing, I think their aggro just locks on and stays locked. The frequency that I have enemies run past me to go after someone else is kind of silly, tbh.
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Post by gethadept on Apr 14, 2017 19:55:50 GMT
Looking at a spawn does not block it. Had enemies spawn more than once while looking at them directly. I know what you are saying. I just wasn`t sure if it is caused by lag or not. Most of the times, if I look at a spawn location long enough they won`t spawn there at least.
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ajscott819
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Post by ajscott819 on Apr 14, 2017 19:56:43 GMT
I imagine the smaller maps also play into it.
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Post by misguidedworm7 on Apr 14, 2017 20:11:39 GMT
Enemies have certain targeting parameters common with me3.
When they don't have a valid target, such as at spawn, or their target dies, they choose a target, ignoring all line of sight restrictions, this is what gives them a direction to move at all times.
They prefer to keep firing at the same target when all other parameters are the same. This is what causes them to tunnel vision, they need a much better target before they will switch, this prevents them from dividing their attacks between two similar targets.
They prefer targets with line of sight.
They prefer targets closer to "ideal range". For most enemies this is the closest target, but for some, like sharp shooters, this is either ignored, or reversed.
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Post by someN7orother on Apr 14, 2017 20:19:53 GMT
I really feel like I'm being stalked sometimes, because a Berserker will decide to chase me and will just not lose aggro. Enemies don't seem easily to change aggro barring Tactical Cloak being activated, even if there are better/easier/faster targets near them. I don't think it's a weakened state thing, I think their aggro just locks on and stays locked. The frequency that I have enemies run past me to go after someone else is kind of silly, tbh. This can get pretty ridiculous. I can't count the times I've charged a Berserker and started punching him in the face, only for him to turn away and go chase someone behind cover a few feet away. In contrast, Anointed seem happy to let rip on whoever. I'm also pretty sure that something's up with the dog spawns. They seem to regularly pop up behind you as closely as possible to flank you, which doesn't seem to happen with heavier units, or equally quick ones such as Pariahs or Saboteurs. Maybe dogs have their own optional spawn points? This, alongside the significant reduction in cobra strength, is most likely in place to make spawn control and nuking as difficult as possible. Funny because ME3MP Gold is both harder and more enjoyable, regardless.
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Post by akots on Apr 14, 2017 23:03:35 GMT
IMO, and I'm not sure anyone understands the mechanics of the game yet, well, maybe including developers themselves, the enemies act in a sort of hybrid between DAIMP and ME3 more towards DAI. They certainly don't need LOS and just know where you are. Also, they seem to lock on players quite persistently. In DAI, it was quite commonly needed to chase the enemies running around who were in turn chasing some other player. Same thing constantly happens in MEA which is just a bad design IMO. Unlike DAI, some enemies will be probably randomly assigned to particular players so that, I guess, you don't feel lonely hiding somewhere. At least a couple of fish dogs or some observer are automatically assigned to target a player who is hiding away from the main battleground. It also seems that lock is quite persistent a-la berserk mode in ME3 meaning that either the player or the enemy has to die or the player can disappear and there is no way to get rid of the aggro apart from invisibility. In ME3, enemies were re-evaluating their aggro quite frequently and switching targeted players which is more fun IMO.
Also, enemies are deaf in MEA whereas in ME3 they could hear you. Another feature of DAI is also present which is target of players who just cloaked. If the cloaking player had aggro, the enemy animations have to finish and aggro is dropped only after that. In ME3 is was frequently immediate depending on lag. But animations in ME3 were generally shorter than in DAI on MEA.
Newly spawned and revived players get some aggro assigned automatically, similar to DAI, regardless of LOS or anything else and maybe even if they are locked into something else, not sure. I had it happened a couple of times when a berserker was chasing me and some player spawned at LZ, berserker just took off towards the newly spawned player and I had to chase him.
IDK of course, but it seems that there is no direct link between condition of the player. In ME3, if multiple players were available for targeting, AI frequently picked weakened target, wounded or without shields. In MEA, I think this is not the case, it maybe just random or something else. In DAI, people suggested it might be linked to threat level but this was never actually proven and how AI determined the threat level remains unknown.
IMO, some MEA maps are really poorly designed in this regard and they don't account for aggro evasion. I always feel like playing Condor or maybe London/Rio, more like Rio with different geometry aka Giant. Zero is actually one of the most reasonable maps and Sandstorm has a lot of hiding places to fool the AI. Considering how accurate the AI guns are and that it is fps-independent (unlike ME3 where targeting was frame rate-dependent), and adding lag and positional issues on top of that, it is quite hard to avoid damage. Kiting requires moving through open areas and enemy speed is on steroids. In ME3, it was possible to solo gold without actually being seriously hit at all if playing very conservatively/carefully. Even such a scrubby player as me could solo gold without using a single gel or oops pack (or oops pack sub in case of jetpack turians or sexbot). In DAI, it was not possible, you get hit no matter what and how you play. In MEA, not sure yet, maybe some better player can do that.
tldr: Aggro and targeting seems to be some hybrid, most from DAI and a little from ME3.
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Post by Urizen on Apr 15, 2017 6:41:13 GMT
In DAI, it was not possible, you get hit no matter what and how you play. In MEA, not sure yet, maybe some better player can do that. The moment you leave your cover you will get hit at some point, usually in between dashes, which in itself can be utterly useless depending on the enemy targeting you ( I´m looking at you sniper/observer ). OTOH getting hit isn´t as severe as getting hit in ME3, afterall, you do regenerate health unlike ME3 (Vorcha and Krogan regenerated ofc, I know that, but none of the other kits ).
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