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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Apr 14, 2017 20:53:19 GMT
I'm sure you're all very excited.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 14, 2017 20:56:10 GMT
thelegend27 disagrees.
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Archangel
N3
had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Archangel
had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
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Post by Archangel on Apr 14, 2017 21:01:07 GMT
Indoctrination theory...
When even the most outlandish fan theory makes more sense than your ending...
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Perpetual Nirvana
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: ravenite33
Posts: 37 Likes: 48
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 14, 2017 21:37:18 GMT
Dammit Game Theory, I thought you were better than this. Indoctrination theory... When even the most outlandish fan theory makes more sense than your ending... Except it doesn't really. Anything out of place is handwaved with "indoctrination" despite the fact that's not how indoctrination works. It contradicts the lore as much, if not more, than the original ending.
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Drinking rosehip tea, independently.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Apr 14, 2017 21:43:36 GMT
....
....
Jesus tap-dancing Christ wept, what does it take to KILL THIS STUPID THEORY?
No offense to any tapdancers or people against blasphemy, but I was tired of indoctrination theory about a day after it appeared. And every time a new DLC came out, I'd be like "Oh, this time they'll finally shut up and stop telling me I'm dumb and wrong for picking control." And it never happened.
...Man, actually, I'm not even mad upon searching my feelings. I think I'll opt for morbid amusement.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 21:47:57 GMT
That they did not do this to me is the biggest failing of the series. Shepard should have battled against indoctrination at some point in ME3. Other people were indoctrinated with far less contact than shepard had (much of it in ME2, ME3 with exposure in ME1). They should have even had someone on the crew become indoctrinated. The theory was really good and god knows more fascinating than what we got.
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cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 14, 2017 21:49:41 GMT
Just when I thought I would never see this nonsense again. 600 years and light years away, here it is again.
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Fogg
N3
Karma whoring over on Reddit, actual opinions on BSN
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Karma whoring over on Reddit, actual opinions on BSN
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Post by Fogg on Apr 14, 2017 21:54:00 GMT
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
Prime Likes: 376
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bshep
We destroy them or they destroy us.
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August 2016
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Top
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Post by bshep on Apr 14, 2017 21:55:51 GMT
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Party like it's 2023!
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 14, 2017 21:56:33 GMT
Ew.
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stysiaq
N3
Gigavorcha Breeder
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: Stysiaq
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Post by stysiaq on Apr 14, 2017 21:59:40 GMT
Did they stop making new games? We've been through this shit 5 years ago. Nobody cares anymore.
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VanSinn
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
Posts: 576 Likes: 1,429
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 14, 2017 22:00:23 GMT
Nah, Indoctrination theory isn't what Bioware intended. I wish they HAD, and done more to make it more consistent than the theory currently is, but there are alot of good points in ID that (if it weren't for some handwaved BS) it wouldn't have taken much to make it the true ending. ID itself is...just too off, but if it had been Bioware's intent, and been done right, it would have beat the everloving HELL outta the endings we actually got.
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Pathfinder
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 14, 2017 22:39:44 GMT
I actually always liked the Indoctrination Theory, largely because the last 15 minutes of the game make zero sense if you take them literally. BioWare isn't impervious to making mistakes. But, it's hard to believe they'd be so inept as to make an ending that's entirely unintelligible.
While I don't necessarily believe all aspects of the Indoctrination Theory work, it's rather hard to claim Indoctrination wasn't in play at all. I still look to Anderson's death as one of the biggest signs of evidence for the theory. After Anderson "dies," there is fresh blood on Shepard's left hand that wasn't there previously, which seems like obvious symbolism for Anderson's passing. More specifically, it seemed to reference a part of Shepard dying, similar to how TIM died.
TIM represented "Control" and Anderson represented "Destroy."
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 14, 2017 22:53:48 GMT
we tried..it only make it stronger.
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Party like it's 2023!
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 14, 2017 23:12:11 GMT
we tried..it only make it stronger. It was foretold in the movie Evolution. Fire only feeds the beast.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 14, 2017 23:22:02 GMT
Interesting, obviously I had heard of this theory but never really understood what it was about. Wish the 2nd part of it was ready to watch.
That said, what I've seen already is far too nuanced and subtle for Mac and the current BW writers to do intentionally. More likely these small elements are just coincidence.
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Post by doch on Apr 14, 2017 23:25:36 GMT
That they did not do this to me is the biggest failing of the series. Shepard should have battled against indoctrination at some point in ME3. Other people were indoctrinated with far less contact than shepard had (much of it in ME2, ME3 with exposure in ME1). They should have even had someone on the crew become indoctrinated. The theory was really good and god knows more fascinating than what we got. Considering indoctrination was a hallmark of the Reapers and was a major point of strategy for them, it would've made sense for them to go after Shepard or someone on the crew. That would've been great!!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 14, 2017 23:29:10 GMT
Interesting, obviously I had heard of this theory but never really understood what it was about. Wish the 2nd part of it was ready to watch. That said, what I've seen already is far too nuanced and subtle for Mac and the current BW writers to do intentionally. More likely these small elements are just coincidence. How many "coincidences" could there have truly been though? One interesting aspect the video hasn't even commented on yet is the significance of the shrubs in Shepard's dreams. They appear all around Shepard after he is hit by Harbinger's beam attack (they weren't there previously). There was a strong implication that Shepard was dreaming the moment he was hit by Harbinger and never actually boarded the Citadel, at least not physically. ME3's last 15 minutes do not make sense if you try to interpret them literally. It still surprises me so many discredit the theory immediately and just assume the ending of ME3 is bad because they do not understand it. BioWare generally doesn't completely butcher the ending to its games, so it's always been odd to me how many so easily disregard ME3's ending without even questioning what it actually meant.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 14, 2017 23:36:01 GMT
Nah, Indoctrination theory isn't what Bioware intended. I wish they HAD, and done more to make it more consistent than the theory currently is, but there are alot of good points in ID that (if it weren't for some handwaved BS) it wouldn't have taken much to make it the true ending. ID itself is...just too off, but if it had been Bioware's intent, and been done right, it would have beat the everloving HELL outta the endings we actually got. This is pretty much my take on it as well. Having an ending that involved indoctrination could have been great. Having an ending, that basically indoctrinated the players (and later gets resolved through a pre-planned extended cut) would have been the ultimate move, to really take interactive story telling to the next level. It would have been a bold move, it would have needed extensive planning and rigor (more than I believe the ME writing team is willing or able to do these days unfortunately), it would most certainly have pissed off a lot of people. But IMO it could also have immortalized the trilogy, if done well. Alas, it is very clear that BW never intended it, so while an impressive amount of fan effort went into it, sadly that's all it ever was.
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Quoth the Raven: Nevermore
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Post by Ruliya on Apr 14, 2017 23:37:03 GMT
Dammit Game Theory, I thought you were better than this. Indoctrination theory... When even the most outlandish fan theory makes more sense than your ending... Except it doesn't really. Anything out of place is handwaved with "indoctrination" despite the fact that's not how indoctrination works. It contradicts the lore as much, if not more, than the original ending. Oh MatPat will go to any lengths for a video, I personally enjoy them regardless if he's right or not. Plus, it's one of his patented two parters! xD
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 14, 2017 23:39:54 GMT
Interesting, obviously I had heard of this theory but never really understood what it was about. Wish the 2nd part of it was ready to watch. That said, what I've seen already is far too nuanced and subtle for Mac and the current BW writers to do intentionally. More likely these small elements are just coincidence. How many "coincidences" could there have truly been though? One interesting aspect the video hasn't even commented on yet is the significance of the shrubs in Shepard's dreams. They appear all around Shepard after he is hit by Harbinger's beam attack (they weren't there previously). There was a strong implication that Shepard was dreaming the moment he was hit by Harbinger and never actually boarded the Citadel, at least not physically. ME3's last 15 minutes do not make sense if you try to interpret them literally. It still surprises me so many discredit the theory immediately and just assume the ending of ME3 is bad because they do not understand it. BioWare generally doesn't completely butcher the ending to its games, so it's always been odd to me how many so easily disregard ME3's ending without even questioning what it actually meant. I'm interested in seeing the rest of the theory, I wasn't really following ME anymore when the ME3 ending crapstorm hit so I missed most of this. Mac has done some really good character work for BW but the overall story quality definitely dropped when Drew left to go work on SWTOR. ME1 was a real space opera, I wouldn't doubt they had hints for that sort of thing back then, I just can't imagine Mac really cashing in on all of that. That said, I'll wait to see the rest of the IT. Anyone at BW ever officially poo-poo'ed the idea?
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SwobyJ
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 2,107 Likes: 2,175
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 14, 2017 23:45:27 GMT
Interesting, obviously I had heard of this theory but never really understood what it was about. Wish the 2nd part of it was ready to watch. That said, what I've seen already is far too nuanced and subtle for Mac and the current BW writers to do intentionally. More likely these small elements are just coincidence. How many "coincidences" could there have truly been though? One interesting aspect the video hasn't even commented on yet is the significance of the shrubs in Shepard's dreams. They appear all around Shepard after he is hit by Harbinger's beam attack (they weren't there previously). There was a strong implication that Shepard was dreaming the moment he was hit by Harbinger and never actually boarded the Citadel, at least not physically. ME3's last 15 minutes do not make sense if you try to interpret them literally. It still surprises me so many discredit the theory immediately and just assume the ending of ME3 is bad because they do not understand it. BioWare generally doesn't completely butcher the ending to its games, so it's always been odd to me how many so easily disregard ME3's ending without even questioning what it actually meant. When first hit by the Reaper in Vancouver, Shepard hits a bench later seen in dreams (? ok), but as he shakes off the effects, you hear part of the dream piano music in the background - like really, really in the background. Why? You can see my profile pic I've had for a while. Why have this position when also meeting Leviathan - in a mind realm?
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Pathfinder
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 14, 2017 23:49:13 GMT
How many "coincidences" could there have truly been though? One interesting aspect the video hasn't even commented on yet is the significance of the shrubs in Shepard's dreams. They appear all around Shepard after he is hit by Harbinger's beam attack (they weren't there previously). There was a strong implication that Shepard was dreaming the moment he was hit by Harbinger and never actually boarded the Citadel, at least not physically. ME3's last 15 minutes do not make sense if you try to interpret them literally. It still surprises me so many discredit the theory immediately and just assume the ending of ME3 is bad because they do not understand it. BioWare generally doesn't completely butcher the ending to its games, so it's always been odd to me how many so easily disregard ME3's ending without even questioning what it actually meant. I'm interested in seeing the rest of the theory, I wasn't really following ME anymore when the ME3 ending crapstorm hit so I missed most of this. Mac has done some really good character work for BW but the overall story quality definitely dropped when Drew left to go work on SWTOR. ME1 was a real space opera, I wouldn't doubt they had hints for that sort of thing back then, I just can't imagine Mac really cashing in on all of that. That said, I'll wait to see the rest of the IT. Anyone at BW ever officially poo-poo'ed the idea? ME3's ending is by far the most debated and controversial ending of any video game in the industry. All sorts of theories were cropping up after the first week (pre-Leviathan and pre-EC) due to everybody being absolutely confused by what just transpired in the last 15 minutes. It's absolutely insane to believe BioWare put in all of those strange suggestions and odd scenes just for them to never go anywhere. BioWare has never given a definitive response to the Indoctrination Theory. They avoid the question and simply move onto something else, much like how they avoid the ME3 ending entirely: gameranx.com/updates/id/6045/article/bioware-brushes-off-mass-effect-3-indoctrination-ending-theory/
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,299 Likes: 50,676
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Post by Iakus on Apr 14, 2017 23:49:50 GMT
Jesus tap-dancing Christ wept, what does it take to KILL THIS STUPID THEORY? A wooden stake?
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Pathfinder
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revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 14, 2017 23:53:36 GMT
How many "coincidences" could there have truly been though? One interesting aspect the video hasn't even commented on yet is the significance of the shrubs in Shepard's dreams. They appear all around Shepard after he is hit by Harbinger's beam attack (they weren't there previously). There was a strong implication that Shepard was dreaming the moment he was hit by Harbinger and never actually boarded the Citadel, at least not physically. ME3's last 15 minutes do not make sense if you try to interpret them literally. It still surprises me so many discredit the theory immediately and just assume the ending of ME3 is bad because they do not understand it. BioWare generally doesn't completely butcher the ending to its games, so it's always been odd to me how many so easily disregard ME3's ending without even questioning what it actually meant. When first hit by the Reaper in Vancouver, Shepard hits a bench later seen in dreams (? ok), but as he shakes off the effects, you hear part of the dream piano music in the background - like really, really in the background. Why? You can see my profile pic I've had for a while. Why have this position when also meeting Leviathan - in a mind realm? I always thought there was more to the ending than many believed. Unfortunately, the reception was so negative and toxic that BioWare isn't even willing to have a dialogue on ME3's ending anymore. They just classify it as a "mistake" and move onto something else. Maybe one day in ten or twenty years, Casey Hudson will sit down with a gaming journalist and give the real story and what was actually happening.
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