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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 15, 2017 7:48:46 GMT
Where do you draw the line?
Is it ok to kill the Yevarra if it leads to better treatments for wounds caused by Kett weapons fire?
On the one hand these creatures are nearly sacred to the Angara. On the other you could save civilian and military lives at best or at worst get soldiers back on their feet a lot quicker, assisting the war effort as well.
The "Poacher" doesn't seemed to phased about the whole thing so i'll assume she'd kill as many as she needs to.
If shes the only option can she be trusted to stop? Or is this a case of the Angara being unwilling to make the tough choices?
Is Angaran culture standing in the way of them saving their civilization?
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 15, 2017 9:47:53 GMT
I'm quite sure they don't have to kill every single Yevarra to get the research done. If they have to, they need to slow down.
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Post by sil on Apr 15, 2017 9:52:03 GMT
Any real scientist with their level of technological understanding would study the Yevarra and create a synthetic version of whatever it is that treats the wounds.
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roseofquartz
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by roseofquartz on Apr 15, 2017 11:21:51 GMT
If your research relies on killing multiple creatures of what you're researching, you're doing a shit job at being a researcher.
Much more likely explanation is that she is a poacher and selling the bones, skin, meat, etc. on Kadara or something.
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Exile Isan
N3
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: ExileIsan
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You must gather your party before venturing forth.
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Post by Exile Isan on Apr 15, 2017 14:09:53 GMT
If your research relies on killing multiple creatures of what you're researching, you're doing a shit job at being a researcher.Much more likely explanation is that she is a poacher and selling the bones, skin, meat, etc. on Kadara or something. Yeah, I was confused about why she had to kill them. Why couldn't she just take blood/skin samples to get the enzymes she was looking for, release them again, and make a synthetic version to help her people? So yeah, I didn't quite trust her, so both times I've done that quest I told the other Angara about her "research".
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 15, 2017 14:23:49 GMT
If your research relies on killing multiple creatures of what you're researching, you're doing a shit job at being a researcher. Much more likely explanation is that she is a poacher and selling the bones, skin, meat, etc. on Kadara or something. (Because Japan and scientific whaling but I dont want to talk about that.) It appears to be genuine research judging by Jaal's reaction and if she's figuring out how they produce the enzyme, maybe I can see killing a few. If I could add to what you've said though reading the datapads they kill every one they come across even the youngs ones. So it is a strange way of researching.
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Post by luke on Apr 15, 2017 14:33:35 GMT
If your research relies on killing multiple creatures of what you're researching, you're doing a shit job at being a researcher. Do you realise how many animals are killed by Universities during research? It's a hell of a lot. Unfortunately that's how things pan out when it comes to research. My Ryder was a bit of a softy who always looked out for his squadmates, so he always listened when his squadmates pleaded. He saved the Angara at the exaltation facility, shut down research of the Yevarra, and left Raeka to die so he could help Drack's scouts. My second Ryder will probably be more pragmatic, ultimately one superstition or tradition isn't important when your entire culture and genetic profile is at risk.
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roseofquartz
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by roseofquartz on Apr 15, 2017 16:17:58 GMT
If your research relies on killing multiple creatures of what you're researching, you're doing a shit job at being a researcher. Do you realise how many animals are killed by Universities during research? It's a hell of a lot. Unfortunately that's how things pan out when it comes to research. My Ryder was a bit of a softy who always looked out for his squadmates, so he always listened when his squadmates pleaded. He saved the Angara at the exaltation facility, shut down research of the Yevarra, and left Raeka to die so he could help Drack's scouts. My second Ryder will probably be more pragmatic, ultimately one superstition or tradition isn't important when your entire culture and genetic profile is at risk. Small animals or insects that can be easily breed in controlled circumstances is different from an entire whale that could take years to grow to full size or breeding age. If she can get close enough to kill one, it's not out of the question for her to get close enough to study without killing it. And why multiple ones? If the shadow you see of them in the water is anything to go by, they're huge creatures. The quest is a clear reference, in my opinion, to Japanese whaling, which hides behind the mockery of research.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 15, 2017 16:19:12 GMT
If your research relies on killing multiple creatures of what you're researching, you're doing a shit job at being a researcher. Do you realise how many animals are killed by Universities during research? It's a hell of a lot. Unfortunately that's how things pan out when it comes to research. My Ryder was a bit of a softy who always looked out for his squadmates, so he always listened when his squadmates pleaded. He saved the Angara at the exaltation facility, shut down research of the Yevarra, and left Raeka to die so he could help Drack's scouts. My second Ryder will probably be more pragmatic, ultimately one superstition or tradition isn't important when your entire culture and genetic profile is at risk. Which was why I let her keep going. Jaal seemed to approve so long as it wasn't him having to make the call.
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roseofquartz
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by roseofquartz on Apr 15, 2017 16:20:38 GMT
If your research relies on killing multiple creatures of what you're researching, you're doing a shit job at being a researcher. Much more likely explanation is that she is a poacher and selling the bones, skin, meat, etc. on Kadara or something. (Because Japan and scientific whaling but I dont want to talk about that.) It appears to be genuine research judging by Jaal's reaction and if she's figuring out how they produce the enzyme, maybe I can see killing a few. If I could add to what you've said though reading the datapads they kill every one they come across even the youngs ones. So it is a strange way of researching. To be perfectly honest, I was expecting the exiles to be poaching them for food and resources (blubber and bone) since that is exactly what we used to do (and what Japan still does). The logic probably would've been close to why the Japanese still value whaling as a source of food and income, especially since it sounds like it's been hard to grow reliable food sources in Helius
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bigevil
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by bigevil on Apr 15, 2017 16:55:16 GMT
I shut her down in both playthroughs so far. Might go the other way in my 3rd playthrough since I'm on Voeld just now.
I think I'd be more likely to agree to it if the exiles were using them for food and resources. Unless I'm mistaken, by the end of the game the AI still doesn't have viable Andromeda food sources of their own. There was the email from Suvi about a plant they'd named after Ryder which still died a lot and was often sterile. It seems like any crops they might have would have come from the Milky Way still. If Yevarra are edible, and they could be hunted in a sustainable way, some of my Ryders might go along with that. Jaal would probably be pissed though.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 15, 2017 17:23:10 GMT
I shut her down in both playthroughs so far. Might go the other way in my 3rd playthrough since I'm on Voeld just now. I think I'd be more likely to agree to it if the exiles were using them for food and resources. Unless I'm mistaken, by the end of the game the AI still doesn't have viable Andromeda food sources of their own. There was the email from Suvi about a plant they'd named after Ryder which still died a lot and was often sterile. It seems like any crops they might have would have come from the Milky Way still. If Yevarra are edible, and they could be hunted in a sustainable way, some of my Ryders might go along with that. Jaal would probably be pissed though. He doesnt get mad once he finds out why.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 17:27:31 GMT
Yeah Jaal gets pretty damn conflicted and leaves the choice to Ryder.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 15, 2017 20:30:32 GMT
It's too much like people killing whales for me so I snitch to the angara every time.
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smellycatbutts
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Posts: 473 Likes: 812
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Post by smellycatbutts on Apr 15, 2017 21:40:04 GMT
Seems like a big cost for a short term goal, esp considering how easily we wrap up the kett.
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bigevil
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by bigevil on Apr 15, 2017 22:52:34 GMT
I shut her down in both playthroughs so far. Might go the other way in my 3rd playthrough since I'm on Voeld just now. I think I'd be more likely to agree to it if the exiles were using them for food and resources. Unless I'm mistaken, by the end of the game the AI still doesn't have viable Andromeda food sources of their own. There was the email from Suvi about a plant they'd named after Ryder which still died a lot and was often sterile. It seems like any crops they might have would have come from the Milky Way still. If Yevarra are edible, and they could be hunted in a sustainable way, some of my Ryders might go along with that. Jaal would probably be pissed though. He doesnt get mad once he finds out why. Yeah, in the game if you decide to let the Angaran scientist continue. But in the hypothetical situation where it's just exiles hunting for food and resources he probably would get mad.
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timebean
N3
It's just a game, folks...
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on Apr 16, 2017 0:21:41 GMT
No scientist would ever kill the entire population of their study organism. It's stupid for ALOT of obvious reasons.
Over-fishing without proper management, on the other hand, has decimated natural populations in many ecosystems.
The ones fishing for food would be much more likely to wipe them out than a scientist doing research. So I was all ready to shut them down when I thought they were hunters. I hesitated when I saw it was a scientist, but it is heavily implied that this particular scientist is an idiot who is going to deplete her research pool and wipe out the "space whales". So, I made her stop.
So in answer to the question, I think the angara should allow ethical research on the space whales if preserving the population while also benefiting from them is the goal. If the space-whales are sentient, have language, etc, then it is kinda screwed up. But...wait...did you just trick us into talking about real whales?
Shit...this is why I am a geologist, damnit! Rocks don't have feelings!
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 16, 2017 1:50:57 GMT
I didn't like that Jaal had no opinion on the subject. He's happy if you stop the slaughter but by not taking responsibility he can disavow your actions if you let it continue. I would have liked him to weigh in.
That said, I stop it. As others said, with their level of technology (which is greater than what we have today) they could take samples and make synthetic versions. I don't know what the Yevarra are really supposed to represent but if they're that important to the Angara then leave them be. Or otherwise breed them and work on that bunch rather than the ones in the wild.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 16, 2017 3:40:16 GMT
No scientist would ever kill the entire population of their study organism. It's stupid for ALOT of obvious reasons. Over-fishing without proper management, on the other hand, has decimated natural populations in many ecosystems. The ones fishing for food would be much more likely to wipe them out than a scientist doing research. So I was all ready to shut them down when I thought they were hunters. I hesitated when I saw it was a scientist, but it is heavily implied that this particular scientist is an idiot who is going to deplete her research pool and wipe out the "space whales". So, I made her stop. So in answer to the question, I think the angara should allow ethical research on the space whales if preserving the population while also benefiting from them is the goal. If the space-whales are sentient, have language, etc, then it is kinda screwed up. But...wait...did you just trick us into talking about real whales? Shit...this is why I am a geologist, damnit! Rocks don't have feelings! Red Lyrium has feelings. Not sure if they still count as rocks though. But thats for another thread.
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timebean
N3
It's just a game, folks...
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on Apr 16, 2017 4:25:04 GMT
No scientist would ever kill the entire population of their study organism. It's stupid for ALOT of obvious reasons. Over-fishing without proper management, on the other hand, has decimated natural populations in many ecosystems. The ones fishing for food would be much more likely to wipe them out than a scientist doing research. So I was all ready to shut them down when I thought they were hunters. I hesitated when I saw it was a scientist, but it is heavily implied that this particular scientist is an idiot who is going to deplete her research pool and wipe out the "space whales". So, I made her stop. So in answer to the question, I think the angara should allow ethical research on the space whales if preserving the population while also benefiting from them is the goal. If the space-whales are sentient, have language, etc, then it is kinda screwed up. But...wait...did you just trick us into talking about real whales? Shit...this is why I am a geologist, damnit! Rocks don't have feelings! Red Lyrium has feelings. Not sure if they still count as rocks though. But thats for another thread. But they are bad feelings! And there is only one thing to do with a bad rock...
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 16, 2017 11:22:04 GMT
I don't think the woman talked enough about her research to understand why she needs to kill them. Especially since it's already established that the Initiative has cloning technology.
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ArabianIGoggles
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: d8lock
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on Apr 16, 2017 11:29:11 GMT
I save them. I saw it as if someone on earth decided we needed to slaughter every dog to treat sunburns.
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Light
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Light on Apr 16, 2017 12:23:22 GMT
I stopped the research because the Initiative has Medi-gel, adapting it to the Angara solves the problem.
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LogicGunn
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
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Post by LogicGunn on Apr 16, 2017 22:59:55 GMT
If you can't research without extincting a species then you're a sh*te scientist. Shut her down, every single time.
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Post by sil on Apr 16, 2017 23:33:41 GMT
I get a strange feeling she might end up being a bit like Rana Thanoptis, each time you meet her, she is doing some stupid research and is in your way. I wouldn't be surprised if she turned up in the next game "researching" something equally horrible.
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