Civ
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Civ on Apr 15, 2017 13:48:26 GMT
No doubt ME:A feels like Mass Effect; it's mysterious, spacy, and has so many familiar elements from MET (Normandy, crew bonding, etc) What did do I like? -Gunplay, weapons, crafting (very in depth; tons of potential) -Nomad (So forgiving to drive, and so fun) -Planet building (felt like I impacted something) -Idea of the Pathfinder (pseudo spectre-explorer) -Crew relations (and I thought Peebee was the best! Awkward, eccentric, and funny) -Profiles; synergies/consumables -Story (I liked the mystery of the remnant) All and all, this encompasses a majority of the game, leaving behind one gigantic elephant in the room Why am I disappointed?
-The enemy; are the Kett horrible body snatching monsters? Yes -Are the Remnant powerful robots? Yes But; I was never worried about them. They are always being hunted down, and the initiative are the 'reapers' of the Milky Way. The enemy is vast, but weak. A non-militant exploration crew can kill thousands of Kett (as the Tempest crew does) I feel like we are the Spanish conquistadors and we are simply wiping out the Mayans. Seems like Kett were scared of us; when they yell "protect the archon!" as they scramble to defend themselves, they beg to keep their 'holy place', even the Archon subtlely mentions his doubts. And the final encounter with the Archon - just ended up being a bigotted monologuing fool with a fancy facial structure. And the Remnant; I felt like we were killing off the janitors from the Citadel. Obviously, the Jaarden represent something bigger, but the story does not develop them outside of "they made life and terraforming" and a 3 audio blurps of "gotta go!" Not sure if they could have made anything better; and I think they choose the safe route to make future titles. But the Kett are horribly dumb, weak, and seem clueless. If anything, the Pathfinder shows them "the way" throughout the story of Meridian and the irony is amazing. |
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 15, 2017 14:06:59 GMT
+ Kett look funny. Archon especially.
...and basically they are Collectors. Mid-game twist only confirms that.
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Post by kleindropper on Apr 15, 2017 14:09:26 GMT
Finally, "meh" as an option. Its the perfect word to describe this game as it is.
Of note, I found Skyrim to be "meh" until mods are added to it.
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Post by parnashwind on Apr 15, 2017 14:24:35 GMT
The Katt NEEDS to be weak otherwise it will not make sense. The Initiative is a civilian operation with a small small population of about 100K. The Arks and the Nexus are not armed as well, they are not able to fight an opponent that is powerful and advanced.
I think the Collector ship in ME2 alone can lay waste to the Archon's fleet in that sector.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 15, 2017 14:32:00 GMT
+ Kett look funny. Archon especially. ...and basically they are Collectors. Mid-game twist only confirms that. I wouldn't really compare them to the Collectors. Just about the only thing they have in common with them is the snatching up of bodies, but the Collectors themselves are just higher functioning husks that live in a beehive that produces reapers. I'd say they're more like the Borg, only there's more of a capacity for there to be individuals that act against each other. |
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havard
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by havard on Apr 15, 2017 14:37:21 GMT
+ Kett look funny. Archon especially. ...and basically they are Collectors. Mid-game twist only confirms that. Collectors, Reapers, Kett, Borg...they are all the same. Mysterious enemies who abduct people to incorporate into their collective, be that technological or genetic. Collectors took people to incorporate into the next Reaper ship, Reapers took people to turn into foot soldiers in their army, Kett took them to incorporate them into their genetic code/reproduce, Borg...whatever the weird Star Trek people say they did... Anyway...it's all the same story. |
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Civ
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Civ on Apr 15, 2017 14:40:11 GMT
The Katt NEEDS to be weak otherwise it will not make sense. The Initiative is a civilian operation with a small small population of about 100K. The Arks and the Nexus are not armed as well, they are not able to fight an opponent that is powerful and advanced. I think the Collector ship in ME2 alone can lay waste to the Archon's fleet in that sector. Not sure how it wouldn't make sense, they certainly never had the upper hand in the Milky Way. The initiative's biggest risk are harmful planet environments, not an alien race attempting to wipe them out. This is why I am disappointed, the Kett/Remnant feel like a minor inconvenience - we are exterminators - and no worthwhile mythos can be created by this. |
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 15, 2017 14:41:49 GMT
Once you figure out the Kett you're fighting are a small force struggling against the scourge and guerilla warfare via two Angaran factions Thats when they start to settle in as an enemy.
They aren't big enough to retake Kadara port back because they arent supposed to be. They aren't a true military threat in ME:A.
The Moshae has some datapads on that in Aya, showing the exhaltation process is long, time consuming, needlessly complicated and inefficient.
They are bogged down in Heleus basically and you'll find info on other datapads saying that the senate is not pleased.
You're not fighting the kett so much as you're hampering them and trying to get ahead of them and go around them in the race to Meridian.
That part doesnt come till late in the game though so I see how it gets lost in all of it.
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Post by parnashwind on Apr 15, 2017 14:54:51 GMT
The Katt NEEDS to be weak otherwise it will not make sense. The Initiative is a civilian operation with a small small population of about 100K. The Arks and the Nexus are not armed as well, they are not able to fight an opponent that is powerful and advanced. I think the Collector ship in ME2 alone can lay waste to the Archon's fleet in that sector. Not sure how it wouldn't make sense, they certainly never had the upper hand in the Milky Way. The initiative's biggest risk are harmful planet environments, not an alien race attempting to wipe them out. This is why I am disappointed, the Kett/Remnant feel like a minor inconvenience - we are exterminators - and no worthwhile mythos can be created by this. The initiative is not a military operation, how can they defend themselves against an alien race trying to wipe them out? They dont have enough guns and dont have enough people because without resources to keep everyone fed, most are still in the fridge. ME:A is more about establishing a foothold. Moving forward, I am sure we will run into either or both the Jardaan and their enemy. The Katt? They are just Batarians - a minor inconvenience and I believe they will always be just that. |
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 15, 2017 14:58:31 GMT
+ Kett look funny. Archon especially. ...and basically they are Collectors. Mid-game twist only confirms that. I wouldn't really compare them to the Collectors. Just about the only thing they have in common with them is the snatching up of bodies, but the Collectors themselves are just higher functioning husks that live in a beehive that produces reapers. I'd say they're more like the Borg, only there's more of a capacity for there to be individuals that act against each other. I don't know anything about the Borg, but you learn very fast that Kett you're fighting used to be Angara. Same as Collectors used to be Protheans. They kidnapp people, change them into themselves and behave like mindless husks- with very few exceptions like Archon, Primus and one priest in Kett base. I've played MET multiple times, and finished it not long ago. There is barely anything new in Andromeda and that is one of many things I don't like about it. I know it's possible to use a similar concept and still make the story feel "fresh", but it just didn't happen here. |
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timebean
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It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on Apr 15, 2017 15:16:31 GMT
The issue is that they are trying to have it both ways in the game
- In MET, you have this huge threat, and seems impossible to survive. They are "beyond our comprehension". So you get some dramatic tension by fighting an enemy against all odds. Super easy to write that (from a story-telling standpoint).
- In MEA, the threat is more faction against faction (as other folks here have pointed out). This can create a more powerful story (ie, more dramatic tension) than an almost unstoppable enemy because it can get much deeper, and the story can be less black and white. Look at the interactions we have with the Roakkar, for example. They are bit more complex, comprising individuals and internal politics. This is a much more interesting enemy, imo, than the reapers. BUT, to make that type of enemy interesting, they have to be written well and they have to be fully developed. Where the game fails is in presentation of that enemy, imo. There is the merest hint of religious belief, political structures/larger motivations, and disagreements in the enemy camp. But it is not AT ALL enough to be satisfying.
They are trying to present the Kett like the Reapers...mysterious and unyielding. And it just does not work because the power balance is off.
This might be fixed with DLC, or in the next game. I guess we'll see.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 15, 2017 15:29:46 GMT
I know why I am disappointed. The game does a really bad plot at even establishing the concepts it's trying to present. The Kett, The Archon, The Andromeda Initiative etc. All things are at least possible of having intrigue or good writing regardless of how unoriginal some of them are but the game wastes so many opportunities. Same goes for Ryder. They were too fast and loose with him and he ends up being yet another BioWare protagonist that does not grow or struggle to overcome their flaws but they're just awesome because. Shepard was arguably better but he was also just a brick which was fine since there were so many opportunities for headcanon and roleplaying in ME2 but he was a Gary Stu in ME3. Ryder is good because the plot decides he is. Becomes the leading human figure because his father decided he is and the plot doesn't address this by showing how untrained or inexperienced he is, it just undermines it with a joky script and bad one liners. SAM overrides any opportunity for growth too. The Kett could've been good but they're introduced with a bias (they're doing EVIL things) and we just bump into Archon because lol.
The best part about the Kett is when you see them experiment because it's actual showing rather than telling. It doesn't change that they're pretty darn generic though. The Angara are fine but their Sonic The Fish art design sucks.
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Civ
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Civ on Apr 15, 2017 15:36:48 GMT
The issue is that they are trying to have it both ways in the game - In MET, you have this huge threat, and seems impossible to survive. They are "beyond our comprehension". So you get some dramatic tension by fighting an enemy against all odds. Super easy to write that (from a story-telling standpoint). - In MEA, the threat is more faction against faction (as other folks here have pointed out). This can create a more powerful story (ie, more dramatic tension) than an almost unstoppable enemy because it can get much deeper, and the story can be less black and white. Look at the interactions we have with the Roakkar, for example. They are bit more complex, comprising individuals and internal politics. This is a much more interesting enemy, imo, than the reapers. BUT, to make that type of enemy interesting, they have to be written well and they have to be fully developed. Where the game fails is in presentation of that enemy, imo. There is the merest hint of religious belief, political structures/larger motivations, and disagreements in the enemy camp. But it is not AT ALL enough to be satisfying. They are trying to present the Kett like the Reapers...mysterious and unyielding. And it just does not work because the power balance is off. This might be fixed with DLC, or in the next game. I guess we'll see. Well said, and you put it much more eloquently than I.  |
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joglee
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by joglee on Apr 15, 2017 15:54:50 GMT
I think it's actually interesting.
What I have seen from Andromeda is that neither the Angaran or Kett use mass effect fields.
They likely have never seen the technology to do so.
Think about it. Everything in the milky way was developed with mass effect fields at it's heart.
From our weapons, armor, shields, even our ships manipulate Eezo through the use of ME Fields.
We came to Andromeda and ended up being the most technologically advanced civilization alive.
However, what I would fear is the enemy not seen....Who ever developed and deployed the dark matter weapon....Now those guys are to be feared.
Because whoever created that dark matter bomb....They would be able to turn our technological superiority against us....If they decide to explore that path, that is.
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Post by joglee on Apr 15, 2017 15:58:11 GMT
In MET, you have this huge threat, and seems impossible to survive. They are "beyond our comprehension". You mean the synthetic AI squids who were designed to wipe out advancing civilizations, who may develop AI that would wipe out civilizations, in an attempt to keep advanced synthetic AI from wiping out civilizations, by using advanced synthetic AI to wipe out civilizations? Sorry ME1-3 had a retarded story. It was literally a Xzibit meme of a story. |
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Post by Rascoth on Apr 15, 2017 16:01:59 GMT
In MET, you have this huge threat, and seems impossible to survive. They are "beyond our comprehension". You mean the synthetic AI squids who were designed to wipe out advancing civilizations, who may develop AI that would wipe out civilizations, in an attempt to keep advanced synthetic AI from wiping out civilizations, by using advanced synthetic AI to wipe out civilizations? Sorry ME1-3 had a retarded story. It was literally a Xzibit meme of a story. Okay, I lol'ed because of this simple, yet spot-on explanation  |
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Post by gplayer on Apr 15, 2017 16:02:38 GMT
I would not use Ryder as an example as to how weak the Kett are, the PC is always larger than life and extraordinary hero. But look at Sloane Kelly, she made quick work of them on Kadara. On Eos the Kett had the element of surprise (it was their first time seeing them) and colonists had radiation and storms to deal with as well. Anyways, I agree the Kett are weak but for different reasons. I was not pleased with the huge fleet at the end as that was not in line with we knew about them or their operations in the cluster. With the fleet like that they could have easily destroyed the nexus and forced Pedromos into submission/exaltation. They would not need to descend from orbit.
I felt the game was trying too hard to be ME4 instead of the start of a new series. The ship looks the same, there is a bitter Krogan in your squad and an Asari archealogist..etc.
'Meh' sums it up nicely.
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Post by rasande on Apr 15, 2017 16:05:07 GMT
I'm alright with the Kett idea wise besides the Archon,getting some major Kei Leng vibes from him and his stupid cape, i just can't take him seriously, he's such an arrogant,mustache twirling cliché. They're overall nothing super exciting but they work.
But really don't like their design. They look like roided-out space monkeys.
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Post by rahavan on Apr 15, 2017 16:05:54 GMT
The enemies were fine, though the archons dialog could have been done better. The man problem is that SAM does everything for you and it detracts from feeling like you're a hero. I'm really hoping that future DLC will rectify that issue.
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timebean
N3
It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on Apr 15, 2017 16:18:49 GMT
In MET, you have this huge threat, and seems impossible to survive. They are "beyond our comprehension". You mean the synthetic AI squids who were designed to wipe out advancing civilizations, who may develop AI that would wipe out civilizations, in an attempt to keep advanced synthetic AI from wiping out civilizations, by using advanced synthetic AI to wipe out civilizations? Sorry ME1-3 had a retarded story. It was literally a Xzibit meme of a story. Yup! I never said it was a good. I was just contrasting two different types of enemies in the the games - factions with roughly equal strength to your faction versus...well...what you said (ie, space boogie-squid with retarded motivations) |
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 15, 2017 16:29:23 GMT
In MET, you have this huge threat, and seems impossible to survive. They are "beyond our comprehension". You mean the synthetic AI squids who were designed to wipe out advancing civilizations, who may develop AI that would wipe out civilizations, in an attempt to keep advanced synthetic AI from wiping out civilizations, by using advanced synthetic AI to wipe out civilizations? Sorry ME1-3 had a retarded story. It was literally a Xzibit meme of a story. It's a oversimplification of the story but more or less correct lol |
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Post by jclosed on Apr 15, 2017 16:31:17 GMT
I cannot vote, because I am not disappointed.
Sadly, it seems that this is missing in the poll.
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Post by armass81 on Apr 15, 2017 17:55:39 GMT
The kett you encounter in the game are just a small part of a much larger force in Andromeda. Also according to the salarian doctor, they have "vassal races" also.
They are like Klingons to our federation, an enemy on equal terms to fight. They will no doubt seem underwhelming after the reapers, but thats what you get when you play your big villain cards first. Also the writers can possibly avoid the villain trappings like the reapers got, like making them "too powerful" for us to defeat, without a deus ex machina.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 15, 2017 18:03:48 GMT
In MET, you have this huge threat, and seems impossible to survive. They are "beyond our comprehension". You mean the synthetic AI squids who were designed to wipe out advancing civilizations, who may develop AI that would wipe out civilizations, in an attempt to keep advanced synthetic AI from wiping out civilizations, by using advanced synthetic AI to wipe out civilizations? Sorry ME1-3 had a retarded story. It was literally a Xzibit meme of a story. Yeah, but you learn that from the ghost kid by the very end, until then they were "beyond our comprehension". There is a reason why ME3 ending is so unpopular  |
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Post by atalante on Apr 15, 2017 18:05:48 GMT
To me that is not the issue. Keths are probably not the big threat out there in the scope of a serie, but just the equivalent of the geths/cerberus.
Really the problem of the game (that I still enjoy very much) is the awful ratio between strong content and filler. A bit of "tasks" is ok to flesh the game and space a bit the better moments, but in the case of MEA they have gone overboard in my opinion.
It is a difficult equilibrium to achieve. For the general feel of the game, you need to have it expand in lenght, so it gives the player time to learn to care about the settings/characters, but if you add too much "5/10 score" side quests to the "9/10 score" main missions, you end up with a 7/10 score for the game overall.
So yep, 10-15 hours of great content in the middle of 70 hours of so-so content is the issue. And it doesn't help that the good missions are fragmented with "on hold" waiting times all over the place. To give you an image, choose a movie you love, find a friend who hasn't watched it, and show him the movie only by fragments of 10 minutes a day. He will most probably not get immersed in it as you were.
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