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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 17, 2017 12:46:43 GMT
Also add a resurrected zombie H.R Giger for perfect bio-mechanical Alien design.
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 17, 2017 12:48:26 GMT
It would have been nice to have seen the final product though. As has been said before, it wasn't just the ideas presented in the endings that pissed people off but the execution. The starchild, red, green, blue, no way for previous decisions to have an effect (geth & quarian peace for example). All of this and more made the ending so unsatisfactory. I think Drew's execution would have made a big difference. I wouldn't have minded an outside chance of lots of little blue babies as well. Yeah it wasn't just the ideas...but the ideas played a pretty big role in it. Like the most important part. Drew was still on for ME2 and how many people complain about the human terminator reaper baby despite the overall better execution of the final mission? Also you can still have a chance at little blue babies if you pick destroy and manage to get the 5 second breathing scene at the end. As long as Shepard is breathing, we'll bang okay?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 17, 2017 13:09:13 GMT
It's still better than the starchild ending. A non-flaming bag of dog shit is better than a flaming bag of dog shit. Still shit though. Not to get into this whole thing against but the no. 1 problem of the ending we got was how ostraziced the scenes were from the story. Nothing changes there if the story is just suddenly about Dark Energy with a flip switch. They just needed to pick an idea and find out how it related and resonated with Shepard's story and the player's story.
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Post by admiralbonetopickmk2 on Apr 17, 2017 13:42:36 GMT
Sack the infantile hacks who wrote this mess and hire these guys: Drew Karpyshyn Chris E'toile Orson Scott Card Alastair Reynolds Scott Murphy & Mark Crowe The person who wrote Drack can stick around but only under strict supervision from these guys. Definitely yes please to Chris E'toile - the more intelligently written characters like Legion and Thane in ME2 the better - So long as he sticks around for sequels! Agreed so much. I feel that way about Chris L'Etoile as well. Imo he wrote the best stuff in the Mass Effect franchise. He was involved in the best sci-fi bits of the series. I liked the depth, the nuance and the slow, serious, cerebral style he brought. How serious he took the setting and how serious he took the lore etc.. he's the writer who made Mass Effect.. well Mass Effect for me. The best writer they ever had.
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Post by pdusen on Apr 17, 2017 13:52:20 GMT
I went back to a half finished play through of the OT after the disappointment of ME:A, mainly to see if I was being unfair about the writing. Just had Samara's loyalty mission. The dialogue between Samara and Shep before and after the mission is superb. Well written with genuine intelligence, regret, love, duty and honour all coming through due to the writing, direction and voice actress. I can't think of anything comparable in ME:A. This isn't nostalgia. I noticed you glossed over the fact that Samara and Morinth have an honest-to-god DragonBall Z battle in that mission. "Let's discuss our feelings loudly while we try to kill each other!" Nothing in MEA reaches that level of cringe.
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Post by derrame on Apr 17, 2017 13:56:14 GMT
Drew Karpyshyn is all you need
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Post by rpgmaster on Apr 17, 2017 21:03:31 GMT
It would have been nice to have seen the final product though. As has been said before, it wasn't just the ideas presented in the endings that pissed people off but the execution. The starchild, red, green, blue, no way for previous decisions to have an effect (geth & quarian peace for example). All of this and more made the ending so unsatisfactory. I think Drew's execution would have made a big difference. I wouldn't have minded an outside chance of lots of little blue babies as well. Yeah it wasn't just the ideas...but the ideas played a pretty big role in it. Like the most important part. Drew was still on for ME2 and how many people complain about the human terminator reaper baby despite the overall better execution of the final mission? Also you can still have a chance at little blue babies if you pick destroy and manage to get the 5 second breathing scene at the end. As long as Shepard is breathing, we'll bang okay? Karpyshyn left before the end of ME2, no doubt due to the retarded focus on "cool" dictated from higher ups (possibly Hudson).
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Post by Iakus on Apr 17, 2017 21:08:07 GMT
Not Orson Scott Card. He (and his stories) have gotten REALLY weird the past decade. And his endings have always been a bit oddball or weak. Brandon Sanderson, now.... No Card... He's a crazy Morman. No Sanderson either, also a crazy Morman. Sanderson has no idea how to write believable romances because he avoids sexual content at all costs. Romances in Mass Effect would consist of holding hands with someone of the opposite sex...
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Post by Iakus on Apr 17, 2017 21:10:06 GMT
Sack the infantile hacks who wrote this mess and hire these guys: Drew Karpyshyn Chris E'toile Orson Scott Card Alastair Reynolds Scott Murphy & Mark Crowe The person who wrote Drack can stick around but only under strict supervision from these guys. I'd also toss in Jack Campbell
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Apr 17, 2017 21:24:02 GMT
Sack the infantile hacks who wrote this mess and hire these guys: Drew Karpyshyn Chris E'toile Orson Scott CardAlastair Reynolds Scott Murphy & Mark Crowe The person who wrote Drack can stick around but only under strict supervision from these guys. Have you READ Orson Scott Card's "Alvin Maker" series? Or the Bean stuff... I mean, I like Xenocide as much as the next red-blooded SF nerd, but implying Orson Scott Card never pulls the infantile hack card is a bit.... Not true. Also, oh god, the melodrama! Edit: On reading through this thread, I realize it's "Throw Orson Scott Card under the bus" day, and I was neither as witty or entertaining as I thought. He's actually pretty good. Just a few of the things he's written cause cramps in my brain, and not the fun way. While we're dreaming, can I throw in a vote for an all Garth Nix/Will Wight written video game? THERE NOW YOU CAN MAKE FUN OF MY TASTE TOO
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 17, 2017 21:28:16 GMT
Let's get a petition going to bring back Drew Karpyshyn as lead writer. It's the only way to save the series. You can't save someone if they're already past the point of dying. The only way Mass Effect moves from here is sideways just like Mass Effect Andromeda has, and it's all because of ME3. I disagree. MEA is fine and the series will be as well.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Apr 17, 2017 21:28:45 GMT
Why not an SF writer? I opt for Greg Bear... You monster.
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Post by blaw on Apr 17, 2017 21:42:41 GMT
Does anyone know if the writers for HK47 and Jolee Bindo are still around?
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Post by Cyonan on Apr 17, 2017 21:47:43 GMT
Not that Drew is terrible, but I don't get why he gets so much love around here considering the plot to Mass Effect 1 makes no sense at all when you think about it and it wrote the trilogy into a corner by making the Reapers such an unstoppable threat.
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Post by malanek on Apr 17, 2017 22:01:43 GMT
When he wrote a mysterious threat, he really should have internally gone a bit deeper into that threat before they started implementing the story. The writers should definitely have had the motivations of the antagonists down at the very early stages. In terms of the Reapers he did the easy part and stopped. At least the world building and galaxy history was deep and quite open ended.
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Post by applepiesvk on Apr 17, 2017 22:02:25 GMT
and don´t forget to involve in some shape or form Jar Jar Binks, ah wait - we have a ME:A cast for that...
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Post by bshep on Apr 17, 2017 22:19:18 GMT
Not that Drew is terrible, but I don't get why he gets so much love around here considering the plot to Mass Effect 1 makes no sense at all when you think about it and it wrote the trilogy into a corner by making the Reapers such an unstoppable threat. Because for some people the grass is always greener on the other side.
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Post by rpgmaster on Apr 17, 2017 23:22:56 GMT
Not that Drew is terrible, but I don't get why he gets so much love around here considering the plot to Mass Effect 1 makes no sense at all when you think about it and it wrote the trilogy into a corner by making the Reapers such an unstoppable threat. The story of North by Northwest doesn't make sense when you think about it but it's still a great story and script. That you are so immersed in the story that you don't think about logic flaws until you think about it later is a sign of good writing. Bad and boring writing is when you think about how stupid it is while watching/playing it (ie, ME:A).
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Post by bladefist on Apr 17, 2017 23:35:36 GMT
Get Drew back and keep him
From Eurogamer: Drew Karpyshyn, ex-BioWare developer and lead writer of Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2, has revealed in detail how his original idea for the trilogy's ending could have played out.
The potential plot focused on the spread of Dark Energy - a fact alluded to by several characters in Mass Effect 2 but then never mentioned again.
Karpyshyn departed from the Mass Effect team shortly before the conclusion of Mass Effect 2 and was replaced by Mass Effect 3 lead writer Mac Walters.
Despite describing the plot thread as "something that wasn't super fleshed out", Karpyshyn was still able to give gaming radio show VGS a detailed summary of how the storyline might have developed.
Tali's recruitment mission in Mass Effect 2 centred on a star affected by Dark Energy.
"Dark Energy was something that only organics could access because of various techno-science magic reasons we hadn't decided on yet. Maybe using this Dark Energy was having a ripple effect on the space-time continuum.
"Maybe the Reapers kept wiping out organic life because organics keep evolving to the state where they would use biotics and dark energy and that caused an entropic effect that would hasten the end of the universe. Being immortal beings, that's something they wouldn't want to see.
"Then we thought, let's take it to the next level. Maybe the Reapers are looking at a way to stop this. Maybe there's an inevitable descent into the opposite of the Big Bang (the Big Crunch) and the Reapers realise that the only way they can stop it is by using biotics, but since they can't use biotics they have to keep rebuilding society - as they try and find the perfect group to use biotics for this purpose. The asari were close but they weren't quite right, the Protheans were close as well.
"Again it's very vague and not fleshed out, it was something we considered but we ended up going in a different direction."
The plot thread has become popular among hardcore Mass Effect fans as an example of a better solution than the widely-derided original ending, championed by Walters, the series' new lead writer. But Karpyshyn was keen to point out that his idea would likely have displeased some fans too.
"At one point we thought that maybe Shepard could be an alien but didn't know it." Drew Karpyshyn, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 lead writer "I find it funny that fans end up hearing a couple things they like about it and in their minds they add in all the details they specifically want," he explained. "It's like vapourware - vapourware is always perfect, anytime someone talks about the new greatest game. It's perfect until it comes out. I'm a little weary about going into too much detail because, whatever we came up with, it probably wouldn't be what people want it to be."
Other ideas dropped earlier in the series included series hero Shepard turning out to be an alien, Karpyshyn continued.
"Some of the ideas were a little bit wacky and a little bit crazy. At one point we thought that maybe Shepard could be an alien but didn't know it. But we then thought that might be a little too close to [Knights of the Old Republic character] Revan."
Most intriguingly of all, Karpyshyn mentioned a discarded plot idea for the beginning of Mass Effect 2 that sounds similar to what Walters and the Mass Effect 3 team eventually chose for the trilogy's ending (er, spoilers):
"There was some ideas that maybe Shepard gets his essence transferred into some kind of machine, becoming a cyborg and becoming a bridge between synthetics and organics - which is a theme that does play up in the game," Karpyshyn concluded. "At one point we thought, maybe that's how he survives into Mass Effect 2."
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 17, 2017 23:51:37 GMT
Not that Drew is terrible, but I don't get why he gets so much love around here considering the plot to Mass Effect 1 makes no sense at all when you think about it and it wrote the trilogy into a corner by making the Reapers such an unstoppable threat. The story of North by Northwest doesn't make sense when you think about it but it's still a great story and script. That you are so immersed in the story that you don't think about logic flaws until you think about it later is a sign of good writing. Bad and boring writing is when you think about how stupid it is while watching/playing it (ie, ME:A). You basically just said " if you don't think about it, it's a great story" lol. I don't agree with that because a great story can stand up to logical criticism and don't need the excuse "don't think about it"
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Post by colfoley on Apr 18, 2017 0:52:02 GMT
The story of North by Northwest doesn't make sense when you think about it but it's still a great story and script. That you are so immersed in the story that you don't think about logic flaws until you think about it later is a sign of good writing. Bad and boring writing is when you think about how stupid it is while watching/playing it (ie, ME:A). You basically just said " if you don't think about it, it's a great story" lol. I don't agree with that because a great story can stand up to logical criticism and don't need the excuse "don't think about it" It really works both ways here. Its what I like to call execution. There are 'bad stories' that can become great stories because of how well they are executed and how it uses all of its elements, and there are stories that while technically are 'good' they lack the execution to really make you care about the events of said story. However, in the case of MEA its a great story, with anything from amazing to just ok side stories, which is reasonably well executed. I don't think the execution is perfect, but its solid.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 18, 2017 0:59:13 GMT
How about we get JRR Martin to write it? I think the series could do with a couple extra deaths, garden scenes, and of course sex scenes.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 18, 2017 1:03:34 GMT
How about we get JRR Martin to write it? I think the series could do with a couple extra deaths, garden scenes, and of course sex scenes. shots fired.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 18, 2017 1:09:10 GMT
How about we get JRR Martin to write it? I think the series could do with a couple extra deaths, garden scenes, and of course sex scenes. shots fired. Exactly. He is just as qualified as all the others. Some might even say more so with how he does plots and twists. People want to have good sex scenes right? He also does those pretty well. It's a win win.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 1:21:35 GMT
Not that Drew is terrible, but I don't get why he gets so much love around here considering the plot to Mass Effect 1 makes no sense at all when you think about it and it wrote the trilogy into a corner by making the Reapers such an unstoppable threat. The plot of ME1 is still better than what came next, and he didn't make them an unstoppable threat (Vigil's existence, the Conduit, the scientists disabling their signal prove this, they could be outsmarted little by little, over millions of years), it was all just horribly extended in the next games. It was never perfect in ME1, true (there were plot holes as well, huge ones, like Saren attacking the Citadel without explanation or discovery on our part), but it was still decent, acceptable. If we spent the whole plot of Mass Effect 2 hunting for the Crucible, and taking the Citadel and the relays completely out of the Reapers's control it would be miles better than unbelievably forgetting about it in ME3. The Collectors were ultimately expendable to the story, they didn't bring anything useful to avoiding or dealing with the Reapers in ME3. We could have discovered they harvested organics in another way, not use an entire game to do that (while that is still indeed Drew's fault to some extent, and I don't know how much.) The worse part is that the Reapers went full retard in ME3 with their strategy, because the galaxy went full retard before (no preparation, no planning, almost everyone still doubting their existence, Shepard being dead for two years while they were still coming), and that is a writing problem (hell, the Council decides to believe you by the end of ME1, then they're still the same jerks in ME2). The way everything was in the galaxy by the time ME3 starts, the Reapers could've won the war before it began. But having an all powerful and unknowable enemy with an unknowable goal (aka. Dark Energy plot, that is mysterious for us in real life) is still better than this: Even worse, the possibility of those Cthulhu machines making a mistake in their calculations and being wrong after all. Oh, please, just no. But that is the most likely scenario, going forward.
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