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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 1:44:01 GMT
Forgive me for not committing your arguments to memory. I admitted there were flaws to discuss, you just want to shit on it completely, and for what reason I wonder.... can't handle that BioWare has been so thoroughly outdone? I wouldnt say they were outdone, much of TW3 was recreated from other games, the battle of Kaer Morhen was a tribute to the Suicide mission not a bad one, not the best. I think CDPR outplayed them in the marketing of TW3 as a 'better game' in reality its side quests can be just as tedious and boring. But they often have far reaching consequences and worthwhile interactions. People think they aren't fetch quests but a lot of them are. Bio just aren't as good at dressing up filler content. So far as story, the Witcher has always been laughable. The one thing it does well is rip off BioWare and do their bit better. (Ex Bio employees at CDPR) "Characters and cutscenes. More characters and cutscenes. Romance. Make them lol. Use the chracters and cutscenes to make them lol. Now do serious. Right throw in some sidequests with characters and cutscenes. Sprinkle consequences. We're done here." Its ME2 with an open world and sidequests. What BioWare need are hubs big enough that you feel like wandering before you get back to the mission. Thats where the Witcher kills them. Novigrad is an open envirinment that makes TW3 feel big. Its not actually big. BioWare dresses it up with companion interactions and party game-play. CD project did away with this pretty hefty and expensive component and put more resources in world characters. It's not like they gave you all either, just a portion. I am sure that horse he rides is a great conversationalist....
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Post by colfoley on Apr 19, 2017 1:49:22 GMT
And this suggestion that bioware should give up open world ish games is absurd.
Bw fan: please Bioware can you stop giving us large maps with quests to do in them.
Bw: you mean...o.O...you want us to stop doing games like we've always done them?
Andromeda is like almost every Bioware game I've played. From KOTOR to DA I. And from reading up on them even games like BG 1 and 2 did it this way too. Only exceptions are ME 2 and 3.
Only difference is the size of some of the maps.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 19, 2017 1:49:43 GMT
I wouldnt say they were outdone, much of TW3 was recreated from other games, the battle of Kaer Morhen was a tribute to the Suicide mission not a bad one, not the best. I think CDPR outplayed them in the marketing of TW3 as a 'better game' in reality its side quests can be just as tedious and boring. But they often have far reaching consequences and worthwhile interactions. People think they aren't fetch quests but a lot of them are. Bio just aren't as good at dressing up filler content. So far as story, the Witcher has always been laughable. The one thing it does well is rip off BioWare and do their bit better. (Ex Bio employees at CDPR) "Characters and cutscenes. More characters and cutscenes. Romance. Make them lol. Use the chracters and cutscenes to make them lol. Now do serious. Right throw in some sidequests with characters and cutscenes. Sprinkle consequences. We're done here." Its ME2 with an open world and sidequests. What BioWare need are hubs big enough that you feel like wandering before you get back to the mission. Thats where the Witcher kills them. Novigrad is an open envirinment that makes TW3 feel big. Its not actually big. BioWare dresses it up with companion interactions and party game-play. CD project did away with this pretty hefty and expensive component and put more resources in world characters. It's not like they gave you all either, just a portion. I am sure that horse he rides is a great conversationalist.... Oh, Roach and I have had some great conversations, riding up and down roads in the middle of nowhere, looking at trees. "Hya Roach." "C'mon Roach." Once I even said "Whoa Roach." and he stopped. It was believable in so many ways.
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 19, 2017 1:51:28 GMT
I was expecting the game to stop at a certain point in the story and make sure we did all the "main" side content. I think they're trying to appeal to two separate crowds. Make the campaign streamlined while also giving a bunch of extra content/stories. Problem is the optional stuff much like other features are inconsistent. Some are great. Others are meh and it's most likely due to your point. They don't tie into the main story so it feels disconnected and throws off pacing that's pretty much all games ever. The amount of grindy filer content in the witcher was annoying. It is at times. But just like some of mass effect Andromeda's filler content, I'm glad both are there. I like jumping into the world and just playing around without thinking about it much.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 1:52:00 GMT
And this suggestion that bioware should give up open world ish games is absurd. Bw fan: please Bioware can you stop giving us large maps with quests to do in them. Bw: you mean...o.O...you want us to stop doing games like we've always done them? Andromeda is like almost every Bioware game I've played. From KOTOR to DA I. And from reading up on them even games like BG 1 and 2 did it this way too. Only exceptions are ME 2 and 3. Only difference is the size of some of the maps. Alternatively, BioWare proceeds to provide everything as requested like in DA2, to wake up to a flurry of: Omg, it's all on the same map! It's just story! Worst game Bio ever ma----
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 1:53:44 GMT
BioWare dresses it up with companion interactions and party game-play. CD project did away with this pretty hefty and expensive component and put more resources in world characters. It's not like they gave you all either, just a portion. I am sure that horse he rides is a great conversationalist.... Oh, Roach and I have had some great conversations, riding up and down roads in the middle of nowhere, looking at trees. "Hya Roach." "C'mon Roach." Once I even said "Whoa Roach." and he stopped. It was believable in so many ways. Amazing writing, obviously. I am sure Roach is also animated to every last droppings it puts on the road in Geralt's wake.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 19, 2017 1:55:09 GMT
And this suggestion that bioware should give up open world ish games is absurd. Bw fan: please Bioware can you stop giving us large maps with quests to do in them. Bw: you mean...o.O...you want us to stop doing games like we've always done them? Andromeda is like almost every Bioware game I've played. From KOTOR to DA I. And from reading up on them even games like BG 1 and 2 did it this way too. Only exceptions are ME 2 and 3. Only difference is the size of some of the maps. Alternatively, BioWare proceeds to provide everything as requested like in DA2, to wake up to a flurry of: Omg, it's all on the same map! It's just story! Worst game Bio ever ma---- DA 2 even followed the basic formulae. Just the setting was really small, focussed, and repetitive. But you still had multiple maps in x area you could travel around and do main and side quests in them.
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Post by jf8350143 on Apr 19, 2017 2:00:31 GMT
Open world requires more resources to develop, Bioware didn't have enough budget and time. But they are getting better, when it comes to open world, ME:A is miles better than DA:I.
If you ask me, they should never go back to the ME 2 and ME 3 route.
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Post by Kabraxal on Apr 19, 2017 2:00:45 GMT
I backed up pre official forum closure. You were one of those that didn't want to listen then. And the fact you don't think the Witcher contracts are repetitive just shows how unwilling you are to even try to understand a dissenting opinion. If you want to praise TW3 and not here my thoughts on it, go to CDPR based forums. Unlike many here, I don't embarrass myself by hanging around those boards to troll TW3 and raise my favourite games over it. I'm fucking done with the TW3 fanboys and their annoying bullshit. Forgive me for not committing your arguments to memory. I admitted there were flaws to discuss, you just want to shit on it completely, and for what reason I wonder.... can't handle that BioWare has been so thoroughly outdone? According to what? Mass opinion? Inquisition and Andromeda are far better than TW3 to me. It is not fact tgat TW3 outdid anything, despite the preaching of its fanboys that feel this insane urge to continually bring it up on a forum for BIOWARE. Must not be all that great if you have to tear down other franchises constantly.
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Post by NUM13ER on Apr 19, 2017 2:03:28 GMT
I think the article raises a good point: Did these games really add anything to the experience with their large environments? They're not offering the sense of exploration and stumbling upon quests like Skyrim does. They're not offering the fun narrative that a lot of side quests in the Witcher III provide. Even though many of those missions are technically fetch quests, CDPR and Bethesda know how to dress them up in an interesting way.
Honestly my favourite level layout was the anagaran jungle world of Havarl. It was all on foot, it had a few hub areas (the scientists outpost and the angaran temple) and it was still a reasonably large area. I didn't hate the open world aspects but they're not compelling enough to the point where I'd say this game needed to be set in these massive levels.
Other games handle large maps better and there's a case to be made it's undermining BioWare's narrative strengths. It's possible to strike that balance but I feel BioWare doesn't fully understand what makes open world gameplay compelling and that's half the equation they need to make it work.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 19, 2017 2:03:56 GMT
Forgive me for not committing your arguments to memory. I admitted there were flaws to discuss, you just want to shit on it completely, and for what reason I wonder.... can't handle that BioWare has been so thoroughly outdone? According to what? Mass opinion? Inquisition and Andromeda are far better than TW3 to me. It is not fact tgat TW3 outdid anything, despite the preaching of its fanboys that feel this insane urge to continually bring it up on a forum for BIOWARE. Must not be all that great if you have to tear down other franchises constantly. Saying TW3 is better is not tearing down DA or ME, its just saying the TW is better. I enjoyed DA:I quite a bit, MEA less so, and I discuss them on here. TW3 is relevant to this thread as a AAA game title that incorporated open world aspects in an RPG.
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Post by duckley on Apr 19, 2017 2:28:57 GMT
Totally disagree with the points cited. I have enjoyed all Bioware games thus far, although prefer the DA series to ME. I have played and replayed DA:I more times than I can remember and always found something new and interesting.
I loved the Witcher series and while overall a stronger game than DA:I in many respects, I spent far and away more time with DA:I than the Witcher. No need to compare and contrast the two games. That's been done to death and both have pluses and minuses.
Each person is entitled to their opinion, but I truly hope Bioware stays the course and I can continue to enjoy their wonderful and fun games, I have played Horizon and enjoyed it a lot.. I don't think it is better than ME - equally fun and interesting (although better graphics LOL).
I think it boils down to personal preferences in terms of what a player wants and values in a game. I hope the nay sayers don't win the day. The absolute pleasure and hours of entertainment I have had from Bioware games is deeply appreciated and I hope I can continue to enjoy their games for years to come.
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Post by nastrodamus on Apr 19, 2017 2:39:04 GMT
I sincerely hope they would realize that people aren't saying they dislike open world, they just dislike their open world. There are plenty of games that came out prior to this that laid an incredible foundation, even outside of Bioware, games like Red Dead Redemption and TW3. Blueprints and ideas for great games are out there, without necessarily recreating what another game did. I hope so to, but BW (like many developers these days sadly) rely much more heavily on feedback from places like twitter and facebook. I doubt they are getting much if any in depth analysis other than 'we don't like this or that'. My hopes aren't high. Bethesda takes a bit of a different approach in that it watches it's mod community pretty close to see what players are making and wanting most from those mods. Those later turn into pretty good dlc most time. Some crap along the way, but for the most part good. Bethesda has also used this methodology to monitor for potential dev talent. We'll what Bioware does. Hopefully all the negative press and mistakes made with the game light a fire under this Studio. I don't want BW to become another THQ.
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Post by dark8sage on Apr 19, 2017 2:44:49 GMT
But Skyrim has a different fanbase, or at least, their fanbase has different expectations. Plus Skyrim can be modded to be a virtually different game. The amount of extra content I've gotten from the modding community is what made Skyrim a worthwhile game. The other aspect is that Elder Scrolls is a really legit lore. It's full of mystery and depth and character even if the combat is shit and the baseline character models hideous (which you can somewhat fix too). Skyrim is a true sandbox.
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Post by arreyanne on Apr 19, 2017 2:47:30 GMT
I own all three Wicther games and all 4 ME games.
I have less than 10 hours played in any of the witcher games, ME1 Ive gotten to the Liara joining once in many attempts, hate the mako. The Wicther games its all about the lead guy and he doesn't do anything for me as a player.
Me2, ME3, I have over 20 play through's each, MEA over 150 hours played. DA:I however imho is simply the worst game BioWare has ever made. I'd go into why but it doesn't matter to anyone but me why I despise that game. Never got past Skyhold.
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Post by Petroshenko on Apr 19, 2017 2:52:15 GMT
Other games handle large maps better and there's a case to be made it's undermining BioWare's narrative strengths. Is there though? It's not like anyone forced BioWare to develop Angara Resistance soldiers on Voeld so thinly. Would a linear mission change that design decision at all? Kadara is also open and big yet it doesn't feel like the narrative gets lost there, nor that it lacks memorable characters and quests (for one reason or another)
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Apr 19, 2017 2:55:03 GMT
Bioware can't make engaging openworlds and they aren't the best writers in the video game industry anymore. The worlds aren't any special either if we're being brutally honest here although I like da and me verse - personally their worlds have been sullied by successive sequels (DAI and MEA).
The critics and fans thought this game was mediocre because it is - drones on here can whine and scream all they want but it won't change MEA being a boring game.
Going back to MEA - game was a massive chore despite being shorter than DAI. I was on the verge of quitting several time because of the meme open world areas because theyre boring af. I forced myself to finish similar to DAI - funny how Witcher 3 or other Bioware games never gave me this feeling.
Bioware is kill. The studio is mediocre, the people that made Bioware great are gone, they are incompetent and they lack creativity. Other studios far supersede Bioware because Bioware has fallen to B level status.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Apr 19, 2017 2:58:47 GMT
I own all three Wicther games and all 4 ME games. I have less than 10 hours played in any of the witcher games, ME1 Ive gotten to the Liara joining once in many attempts, hate the mako. The Wicther games its all about the lead guy and he doesn't do anything for me as a player. Me2, ME3, I have over 20 play through's each, MEA over 150 hours played. DA:I however imho is simply the worst game BioWare has ever made. I'd go into why but it doesn't matter to anyone but me why I despise that game. Never got past Skyhold. >i couldn't get into the Witcher It doesn't proven anything although I agree with you on DAI being bioware' worst title. I can't ever play that game ever again because of how it's made.
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Post by NUM13ER on Apr 19, 2017 3:28:13 GMT
Other games handle large maps better and there's a case to be made it's undermining BioWare's narrative strengths. Is there though? It's not like anyone forced BioWare to develop Angara Resistance soldiers on Voeld so thinly. Would a linear mission change that design decision at all? Kadara is also open and big yet it doesn't feel like the narrative gets lost there, nor that it lacks memorable characters and quests (for one reason or another) Well, basically what i'm alluding to is that they haven't been able to merge open world mechanics with a stronger overall narrative. I don't hate the open world levels but I don't believe they've added anything to the last two games that could not be accomplished on relatively smaller, more story driven areas. Andromeda does a better job with side missions than Inquisition but there's really still only a handful of interesting sidequests.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 19, 2017 3:32:17 GMT
I'm generally in agreement with the article. It's not that I don't like the game but I do feel like I'm just hanging around to clear away all those boxes on the planet. Hate having them there. The story maybe should take me somewhere but I'll ignore the immediate threat just so I don't don't have to come back here 25 more times to clear out all of these extremely minor quests.
I admit that I'm not a fan of open world, either. I liked DAI and I also enjoy MEA, but I loved the OT so much. It's not even a chore to go back and play the entire trilogy again. I've got a mission, I go do it, things work out. No problem there. Sure, a few things are thrown in (like, pick up this item while on your mission or you miss out completely) but it doesn't at all detract from what I'm already doing. And if I pay a penalty for missing that item? Well, that just gives me another opportunity to go back and get it. Or to realize maybe it wasn't that important.
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Post by Elsariel on Apr 19, 2017 3:34:26 GMT
And this suggestion that bioware should give up open world ish games is absurd. Bw fan: please Bioware can you stop giving us large maps with quests to do in them. Bw: you mean...o.O...you want us to stop doing games like we've always done them? Andromeda is like almost every Bioware game I've played. From KOTOR to DA I. And from reading up on them even games like BG 1 and 2 did it this way too. Only exceptions are ME 2 and 3. Only difference is the size of some of the maps. Yeah, I don't want to give up open maps entirely. I still like to explore and find cool hidden stuff. I just don't need them to be so gigantic. Lots of smaller maps are more to my liking. Big open spaces like Eladaan and The Hissing Wastes are just... too much in my opinion. Havarl was just right for me. I really loved that place.
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Post by alihou on Apr 19, 2017 3:36:42 GMT
The problem is BW will see "we didn't like the open world" complaints and simply return to all ME2 style corridors which is even worse than what we had in MEA. I sincerely hope they would realize that people aren't saying they dislike open world, they just dislike their open world. There are plenty of games that came out prior to this that laid an incredible foundation, even outside of Bioware, games like Red Dead Redemption and TW3. Blueprints and ideas for great games are out there, without necessarily recreating what another game did. Lol Bioware just can't cut it, this IS Bioware trying to channel what Witcher 3 accomplished with its side content, they've said so themselves! On many occasions, they've said that they were heavily looking at Witcher 3 side content and attempted to deliver meaningful quests for their players.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 19, 2017 3:46:33 GMT
And this suggestion that bioware should give up open world ish games is absurd. Bw fan: please Bioware can you stop giving us large maps with quests to do in them. Bw: you mean...o.O...you want us to stop doing games like we've always done them? Andromeda is like almost every Bioware game I've played. From KOTOR to DA I. And from reading up on them even games like BG 1 and 2 did it this way too. Only exceptions are ME 2 and 3. Only difference is the size of some of the maps. Yeah, I don't want to give up open maps entirely. I still like to explore and find cool hidden stuff. I just don't need them to be so gigantic. Lots of smaller maps are more to my liking. Big open spaces like Eladaan and The Hissing Wastes are just... too much in my opinion. Havarl was just right for me. I really loved that place. those were pretty much my two least favorite maps.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 19, 2017 3:59:03 GMT
Yeah, I don't want to give up open maps entirely. I still like to explore and find cool hidden stuff. I just don't need them to be so gigantic. Lots of smaller maps are more to my liking. Big open spaces like Eladaan and The Hissing Wastes are just... too much in my opinion. Havarl was just right for me. I really loved that place. those were pretty much my two least favorite maps. I have a hard time judging Eladaan. I think in and of itself its fine, but it is so similar to Eos that we spent so much time on early in the game I just wanted it to be done and over with. Didn't help Voeld is basically the same thing again just white. If they had a larger variety between the worlds and had given them more alien designs like Havarl or Habitat 7 I think there would be far less complaining about the open worlds. Those 3 in particular just all feel far too similar and made me want nothing more than for them to be over and done with after barely getting started on them.
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Post by isaidlunch on Apr 19, 2017 4:00:19 GMT
I don't see the point of making an open-world if all you do is flood it with crap. Even TW3 suffered from this, I wonder if anyone enjoyed all those bandit camps and smuggler caches or if they just did them because the magical question mark told them to. Fallout NV never had to bribe me to explore, I explored the map on my own because the game was full of interesting locations and side quests.
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