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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2017 20:33:55 GMT
The witcher games have certainly matured. I remember back when I played W2 on Xbox that I constantly rolled my eyes at how much of a guy game it was. I haven't replayed since, so my memory is foggy, but I think that game had a random woman offering sex as thanks for saving her life. There is no such thing in W3. Most people are either disgusted or afraid of him. The teenage boy fantasy got replaced with a family theme. And that is very much in line with the novels. I don't share Sapkowski's arrogant dismissal of the games and the people who play them, but he does have a point criticizing the shallow reception of his complex characters. So yes, I will say that the first two games were less mature than the novels and W3 to a much lesser extent as well. Because the games DO cater to men. However, how one roleplays Geralt is much more reflective of the player than the character. Geralt is no more a gigolo thinking he can get a threesome than Shepard is a pure renegade psycho. It's a choice. Because it's an RPG. The games do indulge juvenile fantasies, as do Bioware games, but it's not what the games are about. And it's certainly not what the book character is about. Yeah there is an Elf in TW2 that wants to sex just because you saved her life. It is way out of the blue and feels kind of forced. Then in TW3 you can help an Elf on the streets of Novigrad, who actually gets pissed off at you for fighting her battles. It was a nice way to turn that around on Geralt.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 29, 2017 20:39:08 GMT
Actually that is something that always bugged me...How can the witcher games exist if the author hates them/the medium? Also i couldn't roleplay Geralt. I have all three GOTY editions. I have about five achievements among the three of them. I just can't do it. ...ah.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 29, 2017 20:46:51 GMT
Systems Alliance: Military Doctrine The Alliance military is of great concern to the galaxy. At first contact with the turians, they were completely inexperienced. Turian disdain turned to respect after the relief of Shanxi, where the humans surprised them with novel technologies and tactics.
The human devotion to understanding and adapting to modern space warfare stunned the staid Council races. For hundreds of years, they had lived behind the secure walls of long-proven technology and tactics. The Council regards the Alliance as a "sleeping giant". Less than 3% of humans volunteer to serve in their military, a lower proportion than any other species.
While competent, Alliance soldiers are neither as professional as the turians nor as skilled as the asari. Their strengths lie in fire support, flexibility, and speed. They make up for lack of numbers with sophisticated technical support (V.I.s, drones, artillery, electronic warfare) and emphasis on mobility and individual initiative.
Their doctrine is not based on absorbing and dishing out heavy shocks like the turians and krogan. Rather, they bypass enemy strong points and launch deep into their rear, cutting supply lines and destroying headquarters and support units, leaving enemies to "wither on the vine".
On defensive, the human military is a rapid reaction force that lives by Sun Tzu's maxim, "He who tries to defend everything defends nothing." Garrisons are intended for scouting rather than combat, avoiding engagement to observe and report on invaders using drones.
The token garrisons of human colonies make it easy for alien powers to secure them, for which the Alliance media criticizes the military. However, the powerful fleets stationed at phase gate nexuses such as Arcturus are just a few hours or days from any colony within their sphere of responsibility. In the event of an attack, they respond with an overwhelming force. That's the point. A planet isn't defensible for either side. The owner can't hold it, and an attacker can't keep it. Worse still,there's no way to keep an adversary from outright destroying planets. This grants the advantage to a side that doesn't need or want planets. Hence, space pirates. Picture evil quarians ruthlessly blackmailing the Council by threatening to bomb the life from Thessia. The last civilization that did that was the krogan...
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 29, 2017 20:52:14 GMT
Yeah there is an Elf in TW2 that wants to sex just because you saved her life. It is way out of the blue and feels kind of forced. Then in TW3 you have an Elf you help on the streets of Novigrad who actually gets pissed off at you for fighting her battles. It was a nice way to turn that around on Geralt. The complaints about sexism (not entirely unwarranted) did have an influence on W3's development. There are several well written strong women in the game, and I don't mean the sorceresses. Cerys is the best choice for Skellige. And Shani in the DLC is an excellent, sensitive portrayal of a modern ambitious woman struggling with relationships because her profession is so important to her. I found her very relatable. It's a beautiful adaptation of the book character.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 29, 2017 21:10:49 GMT
Actually that is something that always bugged me...How can the witcher games exist if the author hates them/the medium? Also i couldn't roleplay Geralt. Why would I care about the author's opinion? I don't even care much about his books.
He liked the fact that he got a stack of cash for the rights, I like the results.
His frustration is mainly about the fact that his crowd became younger all of a sudden.
I've heard he has a bit of a habit of being taken out of context or misinterpreted but how true that is, I do not know. I saw it mentioned that this was the case and tried to look for more about it. I've read from a couple of posts that he did have a respect for CDProjekt's Witcher series even if he has no interest in video games but that his issue is basically that he feels people are treating his novels as video game tie-ins rather than being what the video game series is based on. One example of this is his publishers deciding to use the video game series as basis for novel covers. This also irks him because the video game series is not even considered canon. I think these may be some of the covers mentioned in the example: Don't mistake this as me saying that he's not a dick whose ego could do with a bit of trimming. I've heard more than a few stories but as I said including about the above, this is just what I've heard from others, not from the author himself. I just thought I'd add it to the discussion. Note: tagged for size.
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 29, 2017 21:19:06 GMT
Yeah there is an Elf in TW2 that wants to sex just because you saved her life. It is way out of the blue and feels kind of forced. Then in TW3 you have an Elf you help on the streets of Novigrad who actually gets pissed off at you for fighting her battles. It was a nice way to turn that around on Geralt. The complaints about sexism (not entirely unwarranted) did have an influence on W3's development. There are several well written strong women in the game, and I don't mean the sorceresses. Cerys is the best choice for Skellige. And Shani in the DLC is an excellent, sensitive portrayal of a modern ambitious woman struggling with relationships because her profession is so important to her. I found her very relatable. It's a beautiful adaptation of the book character. In a weird way isent that pandering to the SJW conspiracy bullshit? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is, but if bioware gets flack for doing the same thing...is the difference really the fact that tris and yen and company happen to have cleavage showing, so to speak?
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Post by suikoden on Apr 29, 2017 21:23:47 GMT
The complaints about sexism (not entirely unwarranted) did have an influence on W3's development. There are several well written strong women in the game, and I don't mean the sorceresses. Cerys is the best choice for Skellige. And Shani in the DLC is an excellent, sensitive portrayal of a modern ambitious woman struggling with relationships because her profession is so important to her. I found her very relatable. It's a beautiful adaptation of the book character. In a weird way isent that pandering to the SJW conspiracy bullshit? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is, but if bioware gets flack for doing the same thing...is the difference really the fact that tris and yen and company happen to have cleavage showing, so to speak? The difference is that CDPR has learned how to "show" while Bioware only knows how to "tell" these days.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2017 21:25:30 GMT
The complaints about sexism (not entirely unwarranted) did have an influence on W3's development. There are several well written strong women in the game, and I don't mean the sorceresses. Cerys is the best choice for Skellige. And Shani in the DLC is an excellent, sensitive portrayal of a modern ambitious woman struggling with relationships because her profession is so important to her. I found her very relatable. It's a beautiful adaptation of the book character. In a weird way isn't that pandering to the SJW conspiracy bullshit? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is, but if bioware gets flack for doing the same thing...is the difference really the fact that tris and yen and company happen to have cleavage showing, so to speak? I think its because Bioware has to make a statement about it, more so than any others. Look at Bethesda announcing the romances for Fallout 4. "There will be romances. All of them are available for both genders" they didn't make a big deal out of it. They never boasted about pretty good banging or representation, they just made it and thats it. I mean Fallout 4 even talks about Social Justice in the form of Synths and no one made a stink out of it, because the writing was actually good enough. Its weird to say the writing was good and Bethesda in the same sentence. Sorry rant mode is on at the moment. I think Bioware should focus more on doing what they are supposed to do - Make games that we want to play.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 29, 2017 21:28:47 GMT
Yeah FO4 had some pretty good flashes of brilliance here and there. My personal favorites generally involved Nick Valentine (who I would argue to be the game's best character).
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 29, 2017 21:34:09 GMT
The first witcher game was just an emo kid cutting himself for attention while he talked about boobs to an adult. It was not mature because it was obnoxiously grim and dark for darkness sake and far from being mature. Witcher 2 did it a lot better, introduced more nuanced factional issues but carried a lot of baggage and focused heavily on the world being too callous to care. Witcher 3 was more of the same except Geralt was more of a gary stu throughout the entire adventure. It is a bit foolish to think maturity is a tonal issue of how the world is presented. Witcher as a series is designed to be "dark and dreary" because the world is. They found a balance to it over time that made it more interesting but not exactly a standout to anything. It is generic Medieval Fantasy with an Eastern European flair for fatalistic depression. Andromeda's biggest problem is people presume a more positive tone = poorly written. It doesn't; it just makes it a positive tone. It's the same thing that plagued Star Wars: The Force Awakens; the tone was brighter, the story played it safe, some of the dialogue was a bit silly...but when put on the whole it's still solid. We got a similar issue here essentially. Compounded by technical issues. The Force Awakens is the most poorly written junk I have ever rear. Your post & credibility to me is now void.
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Post by slimgrin on Apr 29, 2017 21:35:44 GMT
Actually that is something that always bugged me...How can the witcher games exist if the author hates them/the medium? Also i couldn't roleplay Geralt. Sapkowski is an eccentric curmudgeon and shit talker. You have to take what he says with a grain of salt. He's been complimentary of CDPR's work, but he's very sensitive about separating his canon from theirs.
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Post by erikson on Apr 29, 2017 22:00:55 GMT
The first witcher game was just an emo kid cutting himself for attention while he talked about boobs to an adult. It was not mature because it was obnoxiously grim and dark for darkness sake and far from being mature. Witcher 2 did it a lot better, introduced more nuanced factional issues but carried a lot of baggage and focused heavily on the world being too callous to care. Witcher 3 was more of the same except Geralt was more of a gary stu throughout the entire adventure. It is a bit foolish to think maturity is a tonal issue of how the world is presented. Witcher as a series is designed to be "dark and dreary" because the world is. They found a balance to it over time that made it more interesting but not exactly a standout to anything. It is generic Medieval Fantasy with an Eastern European flair for fatalistic depression. Andromeda's biggest problem is people presume a more positive tone = poorly written. It doesn't; it just makes it a positive tone. It's the same thing that plagued Star Wars: The Force Awakens; the tone was brighter, the story played it safe, some of the dialogue was a bit silly...but when put on the whole it's still solid. We got a similar issue here essentially. Compounded by technical issues. The Force Awakens is the most poorly written junk I have ever rear. Your post & credibility to me is now void. The difference then with the rest of the Star Wars films is...?
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Post by Jacket on Apr 29, 2017 22:07:02 GMT
I ended up deleting Andromeda for Nier Automata. Andromada isn't worth it. If you want to make an open world game, at least make sure that the story and the side quests are actually interesting. I need to have a reason for all this traveling and grinding. I haven't even completed Horizon yet because I'm doing the side quests which are pretty good.
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Post by erikson on Apr 29, 2017 22:18:28 GMT
The difference then with the rest of the Star Wars films is...? That while the quality of the other movies can be argued about, they weren't inferior remakes. I don't know about that, Luke Skywalker is one of the most boring characters in cinema. I haven't seen The Forece Awakens, but I can't imagine it could be worse. By your own standards at least the lead is an attractive female, instead of a boring badly acted male charcater that looks like a 14 year old girl.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2017 22:22:34 GMT
I think Bioware should focus more on doing what they are supposed to do - Make games that we want to play. Agreed. I have no interest in buying games with a biased heavy-handed political agenda in the writing. There's plenty of that in media as it is, I want to escape that when I play a video game.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 29, 2017 22:26:08 GMT
The first witcher game was just an emo kid cutting himself for attention while he talked about boobs to an adult. It was not mature because it was obnoxiously grim and dark for darkness sake and far from being mature. Witcher 2 did it a lot better, introduced more nuanced factional issues but carried a lot of baggage and focused heavily on the world being too callous to care. Witcher 3 was more of the same except Geralt was more of a gary stu throughout the entire adventure. It is a bit foolish to think maturity is a tonal issue of how the world is presented. Witcher as a series is designed to be "dark and dreary" because the world is. They found a balance to it over time that made it more interesting but not exactly a standout to anything. It is generic Medieval Fantasy with an Eastern European flair for fatalistic depression. Andromeda's biggest problem is people presume a more positive tone = poorly written. It doesn't; it just makes it a positive tone. It's the same thing that plagued Star Wars: The Force Awakens; the tone was brighter, the story played it safe, some of the dialogue was a bit silly...but when put on the whole it's still solid. We got a similar issue here essentially. Compounded by technical issues. The Force Awakens is the most poorly written junk I have ever rear. Your post & credibility to me is now void. Yeah, now good luck with explaining why do you think that repeating exactly the same theme for the x time and butchering the lore at the same time doesn't make a good movie
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Post by Warrior DM on Apr 29, 2017 22:29:32 GMT
Geralt's voice puts me to sleep.
I played through the Witcher 2, and none of the characters or world appealed to me. The combat just wasn't fun as well. The Witcher 3 is probably way better, but I just couldn't feel invested in the story they were trying to tell.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 29, 2017 22:38:18 GMT
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 29, 2017 23:05:35 GMT
In a weird way isn't that pandering to the SJW conspiracy bullshit? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is, but if bioware gets flack for doing the same thing...is the difference really the fact that tris and yen and company happen to have cleavage showing, so to speak? I think its because Bioware has to make a statement about it, more so than any others. Look at Bethesda announcing the romances for Fallout 4. "There will be romances. All of them are available for both genders" they didn't make a big deal out of it. They never boasted about pretty good banging or representation, they just made it and thats it. I mean Fallout 4 even talks about Social Justice in the form of Synths and no one made a stink out of it, because the writing was actually good enough. Its weird to say the writing was good and Bethesda in the same sentence. Sorry rant mode is on at the moment. I think Bioware should focus more on doing what they are supposed to do - Make games that we want to play. Yes. I agree. Bethesda doesn't always get their own lore right, but they know how to make it work in new areas like the Commonwealth. The whole Minuteman storyline, the Underground Railroad (harkening back to the slave-owning era which challenged America's morality), the Brotherhood of Steel (heavy canon heroes, in a noble, self-serving kind of way which would represent America's old world guardians) or the Institute (Sythesis bullcrap.) I blow up the Institute everytime. No regrets.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 29, 2017 23:06:19 GMT
Should the mods change this threads name to the Witcher 3 and MEA AND TFA?
Other then that spiel up there Kylo Ren has the potential to be a far more interesting villain then Vader ever was. Finn also isn't supposed to be Han...he's supposed to be Leia.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 29, 2017 23:06:38 GMT
The complaints about sexism (not entirely unwarranted) did have an influence on W3's development. There are several well written strong women in the game, and I don't mean the sorceresses. Cerys is the best choice for Skellige. And Shani in the DLC is an excellent, sensitive portrayal of a modern ambitious woman struggling with relationships because her profession is so important to her. I found her very relatable. It's a beautiful adaptation of the book character. In a weird way isent that pandering to the SJW conspiracy bullshit? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is, but if bioware gets flack for doing the same thing...is the difference really the fact that tris and yen and company happen to have cleavage showing, so to speak? It's about how you do it and why. I used to LIKE Bioware for being inclusive and moralistic. My own philosophy on life matched theirs, so I never had an issue with the themes and friendships they pushed on the player. I loved their idealistic storytelling. Before SJW turned into a synonym for retarded fanatics, it was a positive thing for me to promote social justice. I mean, how can this NOT be a good thing, right? Feminism used to be about equality, now it's about putting men down, payback. That's really messed up sexism no better than what we had before. And those shouting racism are being very intolerant and racist themselves. It's very bizarre. NOW it feels like Bioware is trying to win the favor of these really whacky special snowflake people who take everything and twist it into a problem. In order to do that their games need to be as inoffensive as possible. As politically correct as possible. It's how you kill all creativity. Because you're no longer telling a compelling story but focusing on getting everyone under the sun represented. And it's a bottomless pit. Characters become political statements. It's irritating. W3 became a better game because of the valid criticism regarding sexism imo. I'm not saying they did this for any idealistic reasons. Appealing to female gamers increases sales these days. It's no coincidence they made Geralt more physically attractive. But to me there is a difference between offering strong likable female characters for women to relate to on top of a strong narrative, and being preoccupied with representation regardless of how much sense it actually makes for the setting and the story you want to tell. CDPR doesn't really care about politically correct all that much. Or at least not yet. The witcher world is all kinds of offensive, inciting sympathy for an abusive husband and so on. Everyone but Geralt's friends is a terrible human being really, men and women alike. And yet it's more complicated than that. Both Bioware and CDPR have responded to the new social justice police, but to different degrees. Though perhaps not for different reasons. What I'm trying to say is that Bioware used to be inclusive because they wanted to. Or so I perceived it. They did it quietly years before there was pressure to comply to the moral police that has gained a lot of influence in the media lately. Now I find it pretentious how they parade their inclusiveness around (while still offering gay players an inferior experience, mind you). They are trying to capitalize on it, having realized how profitable it could be. Also, catering to the sudden fixation on self-insert experiences that go hand in hand with representation. This is just my personal opinion as somebody who values an engaging narrative above player freedom and personal romantic fantasies. I find Bioware's current direction very disagreeable.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 29, 2017 23:09:12 GMT
Annnnddd as far as the SJW nonsense is concerned Bioware is far better at creating diverse faces then most people out there. Hainley Abrams was an anomaly. Bethesda in FO 4 did not do a good job in this issue....at least better then Bioware...because the institute was handled horribly.
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Apr 29, 2017 23:11:17 GMT
I think people who like the Witcher series are always going to be on the defensive when it comes to discussions of social issues because of all of this talk about how sexist, racist ect ect the games are. A lot of the criticisms are kind of interpreting stuff in the least charitable way or just aren't true at all. That doesn't mean I don't have issues with how the series sometimes handles it's female and lgbt+ characters but in my opinion for every bad example there is a good one that is arguably better than in most other supposedly "progressive" games.
For example in the witcher 2 there are two gay characters (one is arguably bi) and they are both portrayed in pretty stereotypical ways at times, there is actually a scene with one of them that kind of came off a bit homophobic in my opinion. In the Witcher 3 however I didn't have any issues with the lgbt characters.
Triss I still feel is a bit fan servicy, plus she kind of goes through the exact same story arc as she does in the books in that she does kinda shitty things to Geralt and Yen, then redeems herself sort of and they forgive her, but this already happened in the books so would they forgive her really? It seems like it kinda got glossed over because she is a romance option.
Yen on the other hand I really liked, she is presented pretty much the way she is in the books and I never felt like I was being forced to like or dislike her. Her flaws were obvious but they were understandable too, I just wish there had been more with her and Ciri.
I really liked how Ciri was handled too and the relationship between her and Geralt.
These are just video games of course I do not feel any of this is a big deal either way.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mihura
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
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November 2016
mihura
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
MihuraL
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Post by Mihura on Apr 29, 2017 23:16:18 GMT
No. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are not The Witcher, yes they can take up some inspiration but they should never go for that level of shit pit world or "mature writing". One of the thing I love about DA is that the tone can be more light-silly in a colorful world but still has that edge of conflict and dept. Like the Mage Origin for example. One little mouse turn out to be more... This I agree with... that is, I agreed with it until Inquisition because I think the aesthetic and graphics has changed to be more "mature" and now it stands out how whimsical the writing is in DA. It worked perfectly with the simplistic style of DA:O and its simple game-design but they have increased emphasis on the human characters and realistic materials and also the cinematic direction more and more so now it reminds me more of a Marvel Studios movie or something... white to say the least I do not like very much. Yes I would prefer something like DA2 style of game design really, realism is overrated. Some games need it and others do not. At this moment the indies have better RPG ideas than anything in the AAA market.
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colfoley
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Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Apr 29, 2017 23:18:32 GMT
Should the mods change this threads name to the Witcher 3 and MEA AND TFA? Other then that spiel up there Kylo Ren has the potential to be a far more interesting villain then Vader ever was. Finn also isn't supposed to be Han...he's supposed to be Leia. Passive aggressive much? Feel free to respond directly if you disagree.
And "potential"? Right. I guess that means that we agree that currently Darth Emo sucks?
lol. Not really. I was just poking fun at the thread name change then anything. And since it seemed to be an issue people were discussing over several posts i wasn't too up to quoting them. Other than that what i mean is Vader started off rather poorly and then was given a nice redemption arc in empire and Jedi. So Vader ended up a good villain. But if you take TFA Kylo Ren versus ANH Vader I'd take Kylo every day of the week as a compelling character.
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