Laughing_Crow
N2
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 142 Likes: 127
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Laughing_Crow
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
142
February 2017
laughingcrow
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Laughing_Crow on Apr 19, 2017 20:43:34 GMT
Points most of the criticism gun at Andromeda, but doesn't offer any solutions for any of the games mentioned. So what is the solution? More writers or writers from different genres with more brainstorming to come up with new ideas? Even if you doubled or tripled the writing and creative staff, it could involve more VO, more animation, etc. which all adds to the budget, production costs and development time. Fan creation and modding is one overlooked area but that would require special handling and something EA has never expressed any interest or desire - except for fan money. Fallout 4 and Skyrim and even the Witcher certainly has been open for fans. Twitter isn't the medium for fans to present creative ideas for consideration. www.gamasutra.com/view/news/296319/Opinion_Why_does_Mass_Effect_Andromedas_open_world_feel_so_closed.php
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maximusarael020
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maximusarael020
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by maximusarael020 on Apr 19, 2017 21:24:00 GMT
I'm not a video game developer. I know absolutely nothing about the best or most efficient or most cost effective way to make a game. However, for me if I was thinking about the best way to make an open world game, it would probably be the opposite of how they (probably) do it now. It seems that they create a vast landscape and then attempt to fill it with content. I think they should start with making everything they need for the main storyline. Do everything except voice-acting. After that, branch off of those areas with companion-missions/loyalty quests. Find where they logically fit along the main story and put them there, make them connect and make sense in the story. Then start adding side content. Grow out from what was made for the main story and the loyalty quests. Expand only when necessary, and always make sure everything feels organic. Once you have as much good-quality side content that ties into the loyalty-quests and main story and overall feel of the game, if you still have enough time, money, and ambition, expand further to more open-world stuff. Cool vistas, hunting animals, fun stuff to do in the vehicle, etc. But only after everything else is quality, both in terms of animations and story content, and without bugs (or at least very few bugs). I feel that is the best way to help mitigate the "wide as the ocean, deep as a puddle" situation we have going in many open-world games. It's probably not feasible at all, but I think it could make for better games with a tighter story and more meaningful content.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 19, 2017 21:25:48 GMT
How many threads are there going to be on this? There is already like 3 threads on the first page about this.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 19, 2017 21:30:15 GMT
Me: A isn't really an open world game
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Cypher
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ItsFreakinJesus
XBL Gamertag: ItsFreakinJesus
PSN: TheMadTitan
Posts: 848 Likes: 1,024
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Cypher
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cypher
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
ItsFreakinJesus
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Post by Cypher on Apr 19, 2017 22:01:17 GMT
Me: A isn't really an open world game Yes it is, unless you're conflating open world with sandbox, which are two entirely different things.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 19, 2017 22:03:10 GMT
Me: A isn't really an open world game Yes it is, unless you're conflating open world with sandbox, which are two entirely different things. MEA is a hub based game. Open world implies no loading screens and one giant map like Skyrim and Fallout 4. Sandbox is like terraria and Minecraft.
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RoboticWater
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 219 Likes: 552
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roboticwater
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by RoboticWater on Apr 19, 2017 22:29:34 GMT
Yes it is, unless you're conflating open world with sandbox, which are two entirely different things. MEA is a hub based game. Open world implies no loading screens and one giant map like Skyrim and Fallout 4. Sandbox is like terraria and Minecraft. At this point open world is as much a functional genre as it is a mechanical one. In other words, open world games don't necessarily need to tick the "Single Continuous Landscape" box to be called open world, they just need to function like one. And even if you disagree with that assessment, that doesn't change the result. Andromeda feels like an open world game, so it's judged like one. Yes, it has hubs, but the driving, collecting, area liberating, crafting, outpost assaulting, etc. are all open world trappings. In fact, in just about every way except landscape continuity, Andromeda functions like a standard open world game. It just does so very poorly. As for the OP, the obvious answer is to commit. BioWare want big worlds, exploration, and player choice as well as tightly scripted segments, traditional storytelling, and consequence. Unfortunately, with current development technology, doing both simply isn't possible, and trying to only makes everything suffer equally.
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
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kino
The path up and down are one and the same.
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August 2016
kino
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on Apr 19, 2017 23:06:19 GMT
I'd read it but I doubt the author says anything different or constructive from what has been written before.
I find myself wondering if all these mag's aren't attempting to ride some kind of reverse hype train.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 19, 2017 23:10:35 GMT
I'd read it but I doubt the author says anything different or constructive from what has been written before. I find myself wondering if all these mag's aren't attempting to ride some kind of reverse hype train. I'm guessing they are.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 19, 2017 23:13:40 GMT
I'm not a video game developer. I know absolutely nothing about the best or most efficient or most cost effective way to make a game. However, for me if I was thinking about the best way to make an open world game, it would probably be the opposite of how they (probably) do it now. It seems that they create a vast landscape and then attempt to fill it with content. I think they should start with making everything they need for the main storyline. Do everything except voice-acting. After that, branch off of those areas with companion-missions/loyalty quests. Find where they logically fit along the main story and put them there, make them connect and make sense in the story. Then start adding side content. Grow out from what was made for the main story and the loyalty quests. Expand only when necessary, and always make sure everything feels organic. Once you have as much good-quality side content that ties into the loyalty-quests and main story and overall feel of the game, if you still have enough time, money, and ambition, expand further to more open-world stuff. Cool vistas, hunting animals, fun stuff to do in the vehicle, etc. But only after everything else is quality, both in terms of animations and story content, and without bugs (or at least very few bugs). I feel that is the best way to help mitigate the "wide as the ocean, deep as a puddle" situation we have going in many open-world games. It's probably not feasible at all, but I think it could make for better games with a tighter story and more meaningful content. problem with this is...and since i have studied game design i should know a bit...that game design tends to be ass backwards. You start with your game design stuff first and then usually a company says to the writers 'find a way to make it work' granted i think Bioware is a bit more collaborative but gameplay is still king.
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Cypher
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ItsFreakinJesus
XBL Gamertag: ItsFreakinJesus
PSN: TheMadTitan
Posts: 848 Likes: 1,024
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cypher
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
ItsFreakinJesus
ItsFreakinJesus
TheMadTitan
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Post by Cypher on Apr 20, 2017 20:42:10 GMT
Yes it is, unless you're conflating open world with sandbox, which are two entirely different things. MEA is a hub based game. Open world implies no loading screens and one giant map like Skyrim and Fallout 4. Sandbox is like terraria and Minecraft. Mass Effect is an open world game connected by several hubs; you can roam around Kadara without loading screens; you can roam around Eos without loading screens. You don't need a singular big map for it to be open world. Sandbox implies Grand Theft Auto and Saints Row, though Terraria and Minecraft also fit since they also have the "go anywhere, do anything" procedural type of gameplay.
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linkenski
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 20, 2017 21:57:36 GMT
All I know is that BioWare is still too stuck in their KOTOR-ways of making hubs and NPCs to be good at making these grand "systematized" open world areas. They aim for what Ubisoft and Rockstar and CDPR has been doing but the result is almost embarrassing. I'm sick of these hub zones where all NPCs just stand in place like window dressing. At least they don't fly all around as much as in DA:I. That's one area that felt polished this time.
The problem is that BioWare has not really evolved since ME2 when they made Omega and simultaneously they've lost talent and I doubt they're making up for it with the amount of new recruits so really it's BioWare stuck in their ME2 Omega days of making open world zones but they try to make 10x the amount of stuff. It just falls flat completely and they HAVE to scale it down or actually grow as a studio if they want something good.
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alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 21, 2017 1:05:27 GMT
Well, having NPCs stand around is an old , old complaint about Bio.. Ultimas had NPC schedules a long time ago; TES games too. You're arguing that this design aspect is finally obsolete?
Maybe, but people were telling me that when Bio's current release was NWN.
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Post by jf8350143 on Apr 21, 2017 2:23:47 GMT
At least this time your crew actually walking around more often and talk to each other a lot. If they could somehow make this mechanic working on other NPCS, all the cities would feel much more alive.
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