Harnette
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by Harnette on Sept 3, 2016 20:48:14 GMT
So, like many others who've played Mass Effect 2, I was always disappointed by the lack of recognition Shepard's death had from a role playing perspective. At the time, and even now, I feel like it was a wasted opportunity to have Shepard's supposed death and resurrection mean so little in a sci-fi world that prided itself in being a narrative based game with compelling characters. And the rest of the universe largely ignores the mere concept of cheating death (to what degree has always been inconsistent). It's part of the reason I enjoyed romancing Thane in my first FemShep play through. Thane at least, seemed to recognize the stakes and weight of being so closed to death. So I've started to imagine a game where that facet of Shepard is highlighted rather than tucked away. A game where you can bring characters back from death, but not without risks, resources, and a healthy amount of skepticism. What if a Cerberus scientist contacted Shepard during the course of ME2 with an optional sub quest line that would help perfect the Lazarus Project? The quest would start and end as an example of what Cerberus could offer the galaxy if allowed to operate freely. And in a game that contains the suicide mission, this mechanic would always be at the back of Shepard's mind. Now, like I said; this wouldn't be easy in practice. Cerberus could've raised an army with those resources but let's assume they found some way to cut costs where necessary and they were limited to 10 POTENTIAL revivals in game. The quest would start with Shepard acquiring a few rare resources in order to resurrect someone Cerberus needed for intel (attempt number one is used up to prove it to you). Afterwards, Shepard would have to manage these resources (like you do in game already) across important Npcs, minor characters who ran into bad luck, or companions who die during the final mission. If the damage is too severe or the body is lost, then its impossible (Kaidan ain't coming back from that nuke basically ) but you end up wasting an attmept if you try. If you don't have enough resources but try anyways, you've wasted another attempt. I'd like to think new advances would still need to be collected to keep up with the probability of success. Shepard can even save one attmept for themself if they're worried about the suicide mission. But this mechanic makes the Lazarus Project an active part of the world, and in the end, would make it harder to see Cerberus negatively when they have such potential research. But what do you guys think? Would you enjoy this mechanic? Would you tweek it? I'm curious to hear opinions.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 3, 2016 20:52:04 GMT
I wouldn't personally. Because you have to remember the Lazarus project was such a massive undertaking in the game. It required mega resources. Mega credits. And mega brain power. And then the original Lazarus facility was trashed by Wilson and his band of plucky mechs so Cerberus, or anyone else, virtually would have had to start from scratch.
Besdies, they did acknowledge from time to time that Shepard died, more in a tongue and cheek manner but it was there.
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Harnette
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 10 Likes: 8
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September 2016
harnette
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by Harnette on Sept 3, 2016 20:57:55 GMT
Yeah, that was the biggest hurdle with this idea.
I remember most of those encounters. But after seeing DAI's attempt to roleplay a prophet who may or not believe in their own divinity, I figured they could've offered more than a "I was only mostly dead" one liner.
Which were amusing, I admit lol
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Post by colfoley on Sept 3, 2016 21:02:31 GMT
DA I part of the entire point,a nd one of the main themes of the story was the conflict between faith and un-faith. And thus the entire idea of the Inquisitor's journey and identity was steeped in whether they were the Herald of Andraste or not. It was one of the defining questions of the game. The Lazaruz project in Mass Effect 2 was really a side show. It was really a way to justify the 'advances' in gameplay, graphics, and in world technology. It would have been jarring to have a game which was entirely different, and ME 2 was entirely different then ME 1, and have no to limited time pass. Sure in hindsight maybe BioWare could have just did a simple time jump but then on the flip side the qestion would have become 'ok so what was Shepard doing in all that time?' Why didn't Shepard prepare the Galaxy for war with the Reapers?
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Post by straykat on Sept 3, 2016 21:03:07 GMT
I don't know what you can do but joke a little. I like it in the Jack romance.
"I'll just fuck you up."
"Good thing the mission is suicide. I guess it all works out."
"Are you nuts?"
"I'm also technically undead. So do your worst."
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Post by Darth Dennis on Sept 3, 2016 21:13:54 GMT
Interesting, although I think that the whole idea of the Lazarus project was stupid in the beginning, as it was just a horrible justification to railroad you into to working for Cerberus, who are set up as this Illuminati style galactic domination organisation who could conjour up anything using some space magic bullshit, and, no offense, your idea would make this nonsense even more implausible.
To me, Lazarus felt as if in Star Wars episode V, the Millennium Falcon blew up, and Luke Skywalker died, and then Jabba the Hutt resurrected Luke and sent him off to defeat some random aliens.
Don't get me wrong, I like much of ME2, but the Lazarus project and the concept of Cerberus being a group that own everything in humanity was just really, really awful.
/rant over
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Harnette
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 10 Likes: 8
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Sept 3, 2016 20:14:21 GMT
September 2016
harnette
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by Harnette on Sept 3, 2016 21:24:02 GMT
No offense taken, if I had my real preference taken into account, I would've stayed far away from the Lazarus Project for this universe. And probably handled Cerberus differently with regards to ME2 and onward for the series. This was mostly an exercise in retrospect of ME2's unfocused (or rather, character focused) plot.
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Post by straykat on Sept 3, 2016 21:36:31 GMT
I would've liked it more if the Geth were the ones who did it... and Legion was your first character.. and the trouble was getting help being a zombie who had a Geth sidekick. lol
Cerberus could've come into the plot, but maybe in secret.. Like Miranda could've been a true femme fatale spy working under false pretenses at first.
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Post by Darth Dennis on Sept 3, 2016 21:37:30 GMT
Yeah, that was the biggest hurdle with this idea. I remember most of those encounters. But after seeing DAI's attempt to roleplay a prophet who may or not believe in their own divinity, I figured they could've offered more than a "I was only mostly dead" one liner. Which were amusing, I admit lol Also, in Chronos station there was (paraphrase) "what if I'm really just a husk built and programmed by Cerberus," although it was 1 and 3/4 games to late, and after Shepard quit Cerberus and started destroying their operations, which is obviously not something a Cerberus slave would do...or would they? Cerberus' experiments always come back to kill them because Cerberus are sometimes very incompetent, despite being able to build a true AI, build a stealth warship better than two military's efforts combined, build a fleet from nowhere that can conquer the Citadel, and raise the fucking dead! /rant over (again)
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Post by colfoley on Sept 3, 2016 21:55:00 GMT
When did they build a fleet from nowhere that could conquer the Citadel? I must have missed that bit in playing ME 3 like 9 times.
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Post by straykat on Sept 3, 2016 23:00:46 GMT
Yeah, that was the biggest hurdle with this idea. I remember most of those encounters. But after seeing DAI's attempt to roleplay a prophet who may or not believe in their own divinity, I figured they could've offered more than a "I was only mostly dead" one liner. Which were amusing, I admit lol Also, in Chronos station there was (paraphrase) "what if I'm really just a husk built and programmed by Cerberus," although it was 1 and 3/4 games to late, and after Shepard quit Cerberus and started destroying their operations, which is obviously not something a Cerberus slave would do...or would they? Cerberus' experiments always come back to kill them because Cerberus are sometimes very incompetent, despite being able to build a true AI, build a stealth warship better than two military's efforts combined, build a fleet from nowhere that can conquer the Citadel, and raise the fucking dead! /rant over (again) Luckily, it's bullshit. It's just more smoke and mirrors to make the player tumble into self-doubt, in the end with the Catalyst. I think if it was so bad, then Miranda wouldn't have been such a nasty bitch in the beginning of ME2, talking about Control Chips and the Illusive Man taking an "incredible risk". At the same time, you live in high EMS destroy, while every synthetic, even including Kasumi's boyfriend, gets killed. In fact, I think the reason why TIM went so crazy with his husk army in ME3, is because he knew he screwed up with Shep. lol
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Harnette
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 10 Likes: 8
inherit
1416
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Harnette
10
Sept 3, 2016 20:14:21 GMT
September 2016
harnette
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by Harnette on Sept 4, 2016 0:44:54 GMT
I would've liked it more if the Geth were the ones who did it... and Legion was your first character.. and the trouble was getting help being a zombie who had a Geth sidekick. lol Cerberus could've come into the plot, but maybe in secret.. Like Miranda could've been a true femme fatale spy working under false pretenses at first. I remember trailer material, pre-launch, that teased Legion (or some random geth) over something implying Shepard's disappearance or death. I always assumed the geth were originally supposed to fill the role Cerberus did at that point.
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Harnette
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 10 Likes: 8
inherit
1416
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Harnette
10
Sept 3, 2016 20:14:21 GMT
September 2016
harnette
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by Harnette on Sept 4, 2016 0:47:06 GMT
Yeah, that was the biggest hurdle with this idea. I remember most of those encounters. But after seeing DAI's attempt to roleplay a prophet who may or not believe in their own divinity, I figured they could've offered more than a "I was only mostly dead" one liner. Which were amusing, I admit lol Also, in Chronos station there was (paraphrase) "what if I'm really just a husk built and programmed by Cerberus," although it was 1 and 3/4 games to late, and after Shepard quit Cerberus and started destroying their operations, which is obviously not something a Cerberus slave would do...or would they? Cerberus' experiments always come back to kill them because Cerberus are sometimes very incompetent, despite being able to build a true AI, build a stealth warship better than two military's efforts combined, build a fleet from nowhere that can conquer the Citadel, and raise the fucking dead! /rant over (again) I rolled my eyes at that conversation lol Too little too late at that point for my tastes. Cerberus capabilities jumped the sharks way too many times for the plot and I think that's something most people can agree on.
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