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Post by Terminator Force on Sept 4, 2016 18:09:08 GMT
Started this case study a while back when I was looking at some Platinum solo builds and came across the Javelin GI and the return of the Platinum goon squad. Turns out Platinum goons require more force to stagger them (or maybe it's the same as Gold too, whatever). And in search for the ways of the Force, I've learned proxy mine evolution 6a with 50% more dmg also comes with extra Force too. At least 25% Force since if you remove 6a evolution, the only way to stagger Platinum goons is by substituting its Force from passives 4b & 5a (only problem with this route is not doing enough double hit headshot dmg to bubbled phantoms if they're also behind cover too. For some reason shooting through cover does just a bit less dmg and will leave them with like one bar left. Very annoying. But SR Amp gear should fix this issue). And no, Proxy 4a 30% extra dmg evolution doesn't come with any bonus Force powers. That and choosing it over radius is lame. The next thing to consider for Jave GI, is how much dmg is required to kill Platinum Husks in one cast. Answer for that is all Proxy dmg evolutions + tack cloak. But choosing Proxy evo 4a dmg over radius is pita. So you're better off replacing that 30% extra dmg from elsewhere (like say, 15% from Hunter Mode & 15% from passives, aka, my current setup). Also starring; Turian Solo - Well, setups for him usually come with plenty of suppressive fire to keep 3 goons dancing at once (at least with a double mag Hurrdurrcane setup as this). That, and he isn't Force sensitive at evo 1 & 3 passives (they're replaced with Stability for better smuggling reach). So even choosing Proxy evo 6a isn't enough to stagger goons unless you also choose either passives 15% or 20% power & force. But that's out of character for Turian Solo. (Also, without 6a he doesn't have enough passive Force to stagger with Proxy. Because he's 10% shy of 45% total required) Chewie Salarian - It's trap! He will lure goons with his yummy taste so he can BoEnergyCast you into stagger animation. Princess Volus - Sorry kid, but your Princess is a Psycho. Didn't you know?
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Smehur
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Smehur: n. laughing bubble (from smeh, 'laughter'; and mehur, 'bubble')
Origin: Smehur
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Post by Smehur on Sept 4, 2016 21:07:58 GMT
According to this, Platinum Goons require 1000 N to stagger, while Gold Goons need only 750 N, so yeah. From the same document, a Platinum Husk has about 1210 HP. Cloaked Proxy can deliver as much even with 4b (radius) evo if you take power bonuses in both HM and passives. Here.My own questions: is the proxy debuff applied before it does its damage? I'm guessing not, because then it would kill Plat Husks without any power damage evos. And how much damage reduction do enemies get from hard cover? Would be neat if we could see that in Kalence.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR
Origin: Filippopotame_FR
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Post by Filippopotame on Sept 4, 2016 21:39:29 GMT
According to this, Platinum Goons require 1000 N to stagger, while Gold Goons need only 750 N, so yeah. From the same document, a Platinum Husk has about 1210 HP. Cloaked Proxy can deliver as much even with 4b (radius) evo if you take power bonuses in both HM and passives. Here.My own questions: is the proxy debuff applied before it does its damage? I'm guessing not, because then it would kill Plat Husks without any power damage evos. And how much damage reduction do enemies get from hard cover? Would be neat if we could see that in Kalence. In my experience debuffs are always applied before damage. That's true for the recon mine, the elecrical hammer, warp (that's for the ones I have tested myself), but I believe that it's true for all powers.
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Post by Terminator Force on Sept 4, 2016 22:21:55 GMT
According to this, Platinum Goons require 1000 N to stagger, while Gold Goons need only 750 N, so yeah. From the same document, a Platinum Husk has about 1210 HP. Cloaked Proxy can deliver as much even with 4b (radius) evo if you take power bonuses in both HM and passives. Here.My own questions: is the proxy debuff applied before it does its damage? I'm guessing not, because then it would kill Plat Husks without any power damage evos. And how much damage reduction do enemies get from hard cover? Would be neat if we could see that in Kalence. Thanks for varifying the Goon force difference between Gold and Platinum. Was going to ask where that page was again, but got lazy to ask. About the bolded part, yes. That's exactly what I too talked about in my OP post (sorry if I wasn't clear). If you don't choose Proxy 4a for 30% extra dmg, you have to pick it from other sources until it adds up to that missing 30%. Choosing from both Hunter Mode 5a and 5a passives (15% + 15%) is my current solution too. Good question and observation about if Proxy debuff gets applied first. Another question is why extra Force doesn't seem to do more dmg to husks. ie. Replacing Hunter Mode 5a evo at 15% power bonus with passives 4b at 10% power & 10 % force, you'd think the extra 10% Force would make up for lack of 5% Power missing and still down a Husk? Wrong. And yes, what is the dmg reduction through hard cover formula for enemies? And soft too, since a bubbled Phantom isn't in hard over. But maybe in this case you aren't getting enough penetration.
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Post by Terminator Force on Sept 4, 2016 22:25:17 GMT
According to this, Platinum Goons require 1000 N to stagger, while Gold Goons need only 750 N, so yeah. From the same document, a Platinum Husk has about 1210 HP. Cloaked Proxy can deliver as much even with 4b (radius) evo if you take power bonuses in both HM and passives. Here.My own questions: is the proxy debuff applied before it does its damage? I'm guessing not, because then it would kill Plat Husks without any power damage evos. And how much damage reduction do enemies get from hard cover? Would be neat if we could see that in Kalence. In my experience debuffs are always applied before damage. That's true for the recon mine, the elecrical hammer, warp (that's for the ones I have tested myself), but I believe that it's true for all powers. What I thought too. But what Snmehur pointed out says this isn't the case for Proxy Mine. Unless the Proxy Mine or Husk health numbers are wrong.
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Post by Terminator Force on Sept 4, 2016 22:31:11 GMT
From the same document, a Platinum Husk has about 1210 HP. Cloaked Proxy can deliver as much even with 4b (radius) evo if you take power bonuses in both HM and passives. Here.Also about that build of yours. If you're Sniping with the Jave on GI, no point in Evo 4b of Hunter Mode. (But I do also understand wanting to keep your build more open for other weapons due to lack of respec cards too) And how is missing a point off passives working out for you? I'm pretty sure you can't one headshot a bubbled Phantom through soft cover with that setup. Will double check & test for myself your build next pug as soon as I'm done here.
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KSSSSHK, PAYDAY!
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Sept 4, 2016 22:35:35 GMT
According to this, Platinum Goons require 1000 N to stagger, while Gold Goons need only 750 N, so yeah. From the same document, a Platinum Husk has about 1210 HP. Cloaked Proxy can deliver as much even with 4b (radius) evo if you take power bonuses in both HM and passives. Here.My own questions: is the proxy debuff applied before it does its damage? I'm guessing not, because then it would kill Plat Husks without any power damage evos. And how much damage reduction do enemies get from hard cover? Would be neat if we could see that in Kalence. Why do you take weapon accuracy with a Javelin?
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Nightman
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not that drunk...yet
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins
XBL Gamertag: Kaiju Soxay
PSN: Kaiju_-Sozay
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Post by Nightman on Sept 4, 2016 22:56:29 GMT
Platinum? We are talking about platinum? Platinum.
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Post by Terminator Force on Sept 5, 2016 0:11:36 GMT
Hmm. Had 3 matches already with Smehur build and been able to one-shot every bubbled Phantom through hard cover so far. Strange, because I remember it failing a few times when I was testing a 4b, 5a, 6b passives build. Will keep testing it and might keep this build as 3 points in fitness helps a ton with DOT and overall squishiness. And didn't want to pass on 6a Hunter Mode evolution as that extra speed and vision is too good to pass up.
Thanks, Smehur.
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Deerber
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Claymore & Drell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: Deerber
Prime Posts: 16,870
Prime Likes: 7098
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Post by Deerber on Sept 5, 2016 0:12:00 GMT
According to this, Platinum Goons require 1000 N to stagger, while Gold Goons need only 750 N, so yeah. From the same document, a Platinum Husk has about 1210 HP. Cloaked Proxy can deliver as much even with 4b (radius) evo if you take power bonuses in both HM and passives. Here.My own questions: is the proxy debuff applied before it does its damage? I'm guessing not, because then it would kill Plat Husks without any power damage evos. And how much damage reduction do enemies get from hard cover? Would be neat if we could see that in Kalence. Debuffs are applied before damage. Enemies get no damage reduction whatsoever from cover. Although with some setups, your gun might deal less than full damage when going through cover. And a Phantom's bubble is considered cover in this regard.
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Post by Terminator Force on Sept 5, 2016 0:14:45 GMT
According to this, Platinum Goons require 1000 N to stagger, while Gold Goons need only 750 N, so yeah. From the same document, a Platinum Husk has about 1210 HP. Cloaked Proxy can deliver as much even with 4b (radius) evo if you take power bonuses in both HM and passives. Here.My own questions: is the proxy debuff applied before it does its damage? I'm guessing not, because then it would kill Plat Husks without any power damage evos. And how much damage reduction do enemies get from hard cover? Would be neat if we could see that in Kalence. Debuffs are applied before damage. Enemies get no damage reduction whatsoever from cover. Although with some setups, your gun might deal less than full damage when going through cover. And a Phantom's bubble is considered cover in this regard. Then the numbers are off for Proxy Mine dmg or Husk health. Also, I too noticed some weird dmg reduction when shooting things through cover sometimes. But then again, I'm running through modmaker, so who knows what other bugs are introduced...
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N3
Smehur: n. laughing bubble (from smeh, 'laughter'; and mehur, 'bubble')
Origin: Smehur
Posts: 336 Likes: 2,063
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Post by Smehur on Sept 5, 2016 7:09:49 GMT
[/quote] Why do you take weapon accuracy with a Javelin? Taking the power recharge evo has exactly the same effect (none). And how is missing a point off passives working out for you? I'm pretty sure you can't one headshot a bubbled Phantom through soft cover with that setup. Will double check & test for myself your build next pug as soon as I'm done here. You can definitely OHK a bubbled phantom with this. You can also OHK an un-bubbled phantom in hard cover. I don't know about bubble and soft cover, I'm a lousy shot so I can only take them out when they're standing still. PS Actually I sorta tried this just now, and the one bubbled phantom I shot at through a wall survived with just a little bit of health. Not sure if it was a headshot though. It's not a very common situation in my experience, but that might be because I'm not paying attention, or it's something related to the map. What I'm trying to do is Reapers on London for the Servant of the People (N4.1) challenge.
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Post by patrickbateman on Sept 5, 2016 8:50:23 GMT
According to this, Platinum Goons require 1000 N to stagger, while Gold Goons need only 750 N, so yeah. From the same document, a Platinum Husk has about 1210 HP. Cloaked Proxy can deliver as much even with 4b (radius) evo if you take power bonuses in both HM and passives. Here.My own questions: is the proxy debuff applied before it does its damage? I'm guessing not, because then it would kill Plat Husks without any power damage evos. And how much damage reduction do enemies get from hard cover? Would be neat if we could see that in Kalence. Why do you take weapon accuracy with a Javelin? Then you don't need to use a re-spec card if you want to use another gun with him.....
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Sept 5, 2016 9:02:01 GMT
Why do you take weapon accuracy with a Javelin? Then you don't need to use a re-spec card if you want to use another gun with him..... They are so hard to get you know And power recharge does have an effect if you so happen to use Proxy bomb out of cloak. then CD is 10 seconds, not 12
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Claymore & Drell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: Deerber
Prime Posts: 16,870
Prime Likes: 7098
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Post by Deerber on Sept 5, 2016 9:55:52 GMT
Debuffs are applied before damage. Enemies get no damage reduction whatsoever from cover. Although with some setups, your gun might deal less than full damage when going through cover. And a Phantom's bubble is considered cover in this regard. Then the numbers are off for Proxy Mine dmg or Husk health. Also, I too noticed some weird dmg reduction when shooting things through cover sometimes. But then again, I'm running through modmaker, so who knows what other bugs are introduced... Sometimes numbers in those sheets are a bit off. Other times it's just the game glitching out. Other times it's just damage reduction from say, spawning. And yeah, I know that shooting through cover sometimes does that even though it shouldn't. It was never investigated, as far as I know, but I got plenty of evidence of that.
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