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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 9:10:14 GMT
Let's not ruin them anymore than MEA did....😂 They are a sexy race of bisexual females that give mind blowing sex.😁 Why Bioware wants to ruin this is beyond me!. ME:A ruined the Asari? Have I missed something?
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 23, 2017 9:11:44 GMT
Except the lore disagrees with you. But whatever. You do you. Yeah, apparently the lore disagrees with you more or perhaps Bioware was just trolling in anticipation of throwing real life transgender politics in game because they feel they need to represent an extreme minority. And just how does Samara saying they don't have males (a true statement by lore) contradict anything I've said? Asari don't even have FEMALES, by their own standards. They have no genders.
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Post by Fredward on Apr 23, 2017 9:14:06 GMT
Plot twist: asari hair tentacles are actually their males and they're just playing all the other species with the whole "we have sex with everything and can have your babies" thing.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 23, 2017 9:14:46 GMT
Yeah, the Asari aren't technically "female" given that they are a monogendered species. That being said, they do tend to default to female pronouns and nomenclature when dealing with other races, so it's understandable why we might end up considering them as an all "female" species. In the end, does it really matter? When it comes to taking a position on the Asari that might require you bending over backwards, most species would prefer this take place in a bedroom, rather than a lecture hall.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 9:34:29 GMT
Liara clearly says that, she's the lore. But what is "the lore"? It's not as if Mass Effect (or any sci-fi for that matter) was some completely coherent logical thing. I'm not even talking about the contradictions, retcons and absurdities over the course of the trilogy. ME1 in itself is relatively coherent by sci-fi standards but clearly has inconsistencies too. I mean, probably one guy wrote the codex and another one wrote Liara and her dialogue (Drew Karpyshyn if I'm not mistaken). Maybe the codex writer got it wrong, maybe the dialogue writer made it up on the fly. Maybe one was the first idea and the other one was developed further into development. Maybe the team never clearly defined it because they hadn't seen that contradiction coming. What I'm trying to say, we have different versions in the game, we don't know how they came to be, and so I don't think we can say "this is the correct version and that's the wrong one" if the writers can't agree on one.
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Post by mordivier on Apr 23, 2017 9:42:05 GMT
Yeah, apparently the lore disagrees with you more or perhaps Bioware was just trolling in anticipation of throwing real life transgender politics in game because they feel they need to represent an extreme minority. And just how does Samara saying they don't have males (a true statement by lore) contradict anything I've said? Asari don't even have FEMALES, by their own standards. They have no genders. That is exactly the point. No males and no females. They are called female because they resemble the females of the rest of the humanoid species. Since that is exactly the way they were intended...to do all this crap about gender pronoun in MEA and speak of "male" asari is with deliberate intent to inject real world transgender crap into the game to represent an extreme minority that have no real bearing on the rest of the populace in the first place. Its gender politics...as evident by Bioware's groveling apology for not doing "Hainly Abrams" properly and that is why its causing such debate/strife/bickering/whatever.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 23, 2017 9:46:14 GMT
The most logical explanation for the lack of Asari males is that they just died of because they weren't necessary anymore for reproduction. Which is incredibly likely because Asari parthenogenesis isn't the typical parthenogenesis. Asari offspring aren't clones, some genetic recombination happens, so they lose little to nothing by ditching sexual reproduction in favor of parthenogenenis.
Also the fact that they need a partner to parthenogenise is evidence to this, even though the partner adds no genetic information. That they have a vagina is evidence to this, as well as their breasts.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 23, 2017 9:48:47 GMT
Yeah, the Asari aren't technically "female" given that they are a monogendered species. That's not how biology works. There living lizard species on earth that only have females. www.scientificamerican.com/article/asexual-lizards/This species also has a trick to get around the obvious disadvantage of pure cloning, just as the Asari do.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 23, 2017 10:55:37 GMT
That's not how biology works. There living lizard species on earth that only have females. I was referring more to how Asari gender identity is not technically "female", since such definitions aren't exactly applicable to them. Biologically speaking, then yeah, they would best be described as female.
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Post by bryanky5 on Apr 23, 2017 11:25:09 GMT
Liara clearly says that, she's the lore. But what is "the lore"? It's not as if Mass Effect (or any sci-fi for that matter) was some completely coherent logical thing. I'm not even talking about the contradictions, retcons and absurdities over the course of the trilogy. ME1 in itself is relatively coherent by sci-fi standards but clearly has inconsistencies too. I mean, probably one guy wrote the codex and another one wrote Liara and her dialogue (Drew Karpyshyn if I'm not mistaken). Maybe the codex writer got it wrong, maybe the dialogue writer made it up on the fly. Maybe one was the first idea and the other one was developed further into development. Maybe the team never clearly defined it because they hadn't seen that contradiction coming. What I'm trying to say, we have different versions in the game, we don't know how they came to be, and so I don't think we can say "this is the correct version and that's the wrong one" if the writers can't agree on one. I think it's fairly simple. Asari themselves do not have any definition of gender however to the rest of the Galaxy they appear female. Which is true, to us they are a feminine species. However to the Asari it means nothing which is why Liara says what she says. I agree that the Codex referring them to them as female is confusing but it can simply be explained that the Codex was written from the perspective of the Galaxy.
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 23, 2017 12:11:03 GMT
How did you get Peebee in Liara's outfit?
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 23, 2017 12:48:13 GMT
How did you get Peebee in Liara's outfit? I'm a PC Mod genius...some would say mad man...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 13:15:51 GMT
Meh, it's fiction. I view it as a bit of a cheesy space adventure and don't take the science seriously.
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Post by sinophile on Apr 23, 2017 14:57:44 GMT
The Codex is more or less a Galactic version of Fox News. You should see what the codex says about Islam.
That's what I have been trying to get at all along. Asari, being the oldest spacefaring race, knew that sexual desire would be the best way to control the Galaxy.
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Post by Reorte on Apr 23, 2017 15:43:37 GMT
Is there any part of the definition of female other than "not male" that the asari don't meet? I don't see any contradiction in saying they're female and mono-gendered. As for it being meaningless to them that would imply (although not completely) that all life on Thessia is the same; it would be more likely, not that we can be certain, that they'll have always been aware of both.
Biologically all female, socially they don't care and possibly see gender differences in other races no more significant than, say, hair colour.
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Post by smellycatbutts on Apr 23, 2017 18:59:59 GMT
You're right, I also believe that the parent who did not physically give birth is referred to as the "father". At least Liara did so but it's not mentioned if that is a cultural thing. It should also be noted that they always say "By the Goddess" not "By the Gods" So they are definitely mono-gender but to humans, I mean they couldn't be more female, breasts, feminine sounding voice and is canonically the most "beautiful" species. Bioware hasn't made this simple have they Physically, yes. They give live birth, so there's a need for a birth canal, and breasts for feeding their infants. This isn't explicitly stated either, but it's a fairly understandable leap of logic. This gives them traits that, as humans, identify as female. The phrasing and connotation of their words is troublesome, though. I would say that it's explained by the universal translator we have during the series. Since humans see Asari as female, words in their language that are likely gender neutral are expressed with feminine connotations in our language. That's definitely a head-canon, thing, though. Asari who've learned human language also kinda need to express themselves, and since most people view them as female, it would make sense for them to use the feminine human words. Especially as, in English anyways, there's no real gender neutral expression for "God." Again, nothing to support this, but that's how I've thought of it since ME1, so... It doesn't mean, though, that there aren't Asari who view things from what we would call a male role. Liara's "father" on the Citadel in ME3 (I'm blanking on her name, my apologies) doesn't specify whether she identifies as male/female/neutral, but she definitely has masculine traits in her dialogue. Rougher sounding voice, the choice of phrases, etc. It's just not a case of "Asari are female! Why is ME:A retconning them! SJW bullshit!" that I've seen too often. Asari are bullshitting themselves. They've got big bobbling boobies, and I assume a uterus = female, as far as most people are concerned. You know, unless you're a species without males. Like the Asari. So yeah, I think the Asari have a better grasp of who they are than a non-Asari does. And yes, I realize the absurdity of assigning motives to fictional pixels. Really? Just so happens I'm an asari, and we're totes biologically female.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 23, 2017 19:12:56 GMT
BRILLIANT! You... are... epic.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 23, 2017 19:16:09 GMT
How did you get Peebee in Liara's outfit? I can't stop laughing and my ribs hurt.
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Post by sinophile on Apr 24, 2017 6:24:25 GMT
That's just stupid, Asari don't have beards.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Apr 24, 2017 6:41:02 GMT
The real world has become more sensitive of gender due to a third wave of feminism and a populist leftist pull so suddenly the Asari, the all-women race, the "every nerd's dream to design" character from Mass Effect became awkward to observe from that viewpoint.
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Post by Melcara on Apr 24, 2017 7:24:49 GMT
The real reason is because they don't exist.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 8:08:39 GMT
The Asari have, lore-wise, never been an "all female race." They are mono-gendered. We see them as female, but that's based in our male/female gender pattern. Liara even specifies this in ME1. From around 40 seconds into this vid. Monogendered doesn't mean "no gender." The prefix mono means one or single, like in the words monorail (a railway that consists of one track) or monocle (a corrective lens for a single eye). Monogendered would mean single gender. Liara was referring to gender identity which is not necessarily the same thing as biological sex. Gender identity has little meaning to the Asari, but that doesn't mean they aren't female. All Asari belong to a single biological sex (female) according to the codex.
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 24, 2017 8:23:33 GMT
The Asari have, lore-wise, never been an "all female race." They are mono-gendered. We see them as female, but that's based in our male/female gender pattern. Liara even specifies this in ME1. From around 40 seconds into this vid. Monogendered doesn't mean "no gender." The prefix mono means one or single, like in the words monorail (a railway that consists of one track) or monocle (a corrective lens for a single eye). Monogendered would mean single gender. Liara was referring to gender identity which is not necessarily the same thing as biological sex. Gender identity has little meaning to the Asari, but that doesn't mean they aren't female. All Asari belong to a single biological sex (female) according to the codex. True, biologically speaking they are, for all intents and purposes female. What I was getting at here, though is that they don't view themselves as female. Male and female have no relevance for them. I may not have put it as clearly as I meant to, but you're basically agreeing with what I intended to say, if not in the best way possible. That's why I find the whole backlash against what was said in ME:A so ridiculous. Gender identity issues were raised in ME1, albeit subtly, and suddenly people are upset because it's more in the open in ME:A, when it's more open in general society? Eh, I just can't be bothered to make a big deal outta it tonite.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Apr 24, 2017 19:39:12 GMT
So the Asari are Parasitic? Really? Only one solution then:
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Post by sinophile on Apr 27, 2017 6:13:33 GMT
Just the males
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