VanSinn
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
Posts: 576 Likes: 1,429
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vansinn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 23, 2017 18:58:34 GMT
Skyrim and Fallout 4 were fucking DISASTERS when they were released. Bugs galore, broken quests everywhere, flying wildlife, physics system breaks...at LEAST twice as bad as ME:A in the bug/broken quest department, and I guarantee you if it weren't for fan made Unofficial patches, they'd STILL be broken worse than ME:A is now. The Witcher 3 had as many broken quests, headless/t-pose characters floating around the screen, invisible horse with floating eyes, falling through the world...It's been patched brilliantly, and is a very solid game NOW, but when released it was as bad or worse than ME:A on launch. Alpha Protocol was a wonderful game FILLED with technical jank and stupidness. You already mentioned AC:U, so no need to go there either. Yet ME:A gets all of the heat. I'm not gonna deny ME:A had (and has) issues. But no worse than most of the AAA games I've played on release in the last few years. VanSinn... the game deserves accolades and criticisms. Unfortunately, many of us are fans of the Bioware's self-made franchises in Dragon Age and Mass Effect. Some of us cringe at the direction each one has taken while others see improvements. However, the shitstorm that followed after release is justified in my opinion. If Bioware is going to claim victory in it's history it better keep the history straight or it will become a watered-down mess that will devolve into selling the IPs to a competitor. I agree. To a point, at least. ME:A definitely had flaws, and I think the facial animations, the dead eyes, the bugged quests, and other issues in ME:A need to be fixed, and criticism leveled at the developers. I point out the flaws in other AAA games, not to excuse ME:A's issues, but to highlight the fact that ME:A is getting WAY more hate compared to other games with similar or worse issues. It's a problem with game developers IN GENERAL, not Bioware SPECIFICALLY. By all means, pressure Bioware to deliver more complete, polished games in the future. But holy Christ, the level of nerd-rage I see on these forums is LUDICROUS. Yes the game has flaws, yes there are issues, but much of the game is very well done. People jump on the flaws and then go on rants how Bioware is shitting on the fans and ME:A is the worst game ever released or other such vitriolic nonsense. Critique all you want. Examine the flaws and hold Bioware account for 'em. In many ways, that's why we're getting the patches we're getting. But grow the fuck up, present your arguments in a mature, responsible manner, and drop the over-aggressive bullshit. And with that, I think I'm done here. I made the mistake of joining a Bioware fan forum when I knew from years of prior experience just how toxic and idiotic this fanbase can be.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 23, 2017 19:04:27 GMT
VanSinn... the game deserves accolades and criticisms. Unfortunately, many of us are fans of the Bioware's self-made franchises in Dragon Age and Mass Effect. Some of us cringe at the direction each one has taken while others see improvements. However, the shitstorm that followed after release is justified in my opinion. If Bioware is going to claim victory in it's history it better keep the history straight or it will become a watered-down mess that will devolve into selling the IPs to a competitor. I agree. To a point, at least. ME:A definitely had flaws, and I think the facial animations, the dead eyes, the bugged quests, and other issues in ME:A need to be fixed, and criticism leveled at the developers. I point out the flaws in other AAA games, not to excuse ME:A's issues, but to highlight the fact that ME:A is getting WAY more hate compared to other games with similar or worse issues. It's a problem with game developers IN GENERAL, not Bioware SPECIFICALLY. By all means, pressure Bioware to deliver more complete, polished games in the future. But holy Christ, the level of nerd-rage I see on these forums is LUDICROUS. Yes the game has flaws, yes there are issues, but much of the game is very well done. People jump on the flaws and then go on rants how Bioware is shitting on the fans and ME:A is the worst game ever released or other such vitriolic nonsense. Critique all you want. Examine the flaws and hold Bioware account for 'em. In many ways, that's why we're getting the patches we're getting. But grow the fuck up, present your arguments in a mature, responsible manner, and drop the over-aggressive bullshit. And with that, I think I'm done here. I made the mistake of joining a Bioware fan forum when I knew from years of prior experience just how toxic and idiotic this fanbase can be. Honestly it's fandoms in general. This is the fourth major fandom.i have b participated in online and they've all sucked. Hell this one is actually pretty mild.
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Post by SofNascimento on Apr 23, 2017 19:15:13 GMT
I like any kind of games, my problems with Andromeda has nothing to do with its genre, but with its shortcomings. And punishing the player for wanting to play the game is a mistake. If I could know before hand that a quest would be meaningless and by the time I would finish it it would have been a waste of time I wouldn't do it, but how can I know? I expect quests in games to be good, to find something in them that makes them interesting. It's not anyone thought that the developers were no capable of creating interesting quests and filled the game with bad ones. Well, I'll be completely honest here, and say that the Witcher 3 bored me nearly to tears. Much of the world I experienced was well done, and well fleshed out, but the combat and gameplay itself was boring AS FUCK. I'm certainly not gonna go on any message boards and bitch about how TW3 was a terrible game. I accept that it wasn't the game for me and I moved on. I simply never could connect with Geralt and his monotone, no inflection voice. I never felt connected with the world, and most of the side content in that game that I experienced was go here fight this monster, get this loot, and the combat system didn't even let me enjoy even THAT part. So, I uninstalled and went and played other games. That is probably what I would have done with KoTOR, which was my first Bioware game. However, I grew to like Bioware and follow them closely, indeed, they used to be my favorite developers bar none. I came to expect great games from them. No matter if they were open world, action oriented , RPGs or whatever, GREAT games. Andromda just isn't that. Which is not to say I did not enjoy it. It certainly not worth the 100 hours I poured into it or the money I spent. But it had its moments, and maybe next time I play it, after they further improve things, I'll enjoy it more as I'll know what to avoid.
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dm04
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by dm04 on Apr 23, 2017 19:37:08 GMT
i really do not see how that makes the game open world. I mean yes you can go anywhere but what's the point if you've done everything? "error" in your understanding of the term, nothing more "open" world is just about where you can go and not what you can do there even an empty open world is an open world though it does not make much sense to have an empty open world, look at it like this: MEA is a filled open world and by the end (100%) it is an empty open world for an open world to utilize its full potential, you have to make it a sandbox as well and the more features this sandboxing provides, the better without sandbox, you need a lot of content, so it takes longer before the world becomes empty and thus pointless to play so, I have no idea what all this fuss is about open world, why is everyone so obsessed with open worlds? an open world is virtualy nothing without sandbox... look at MEA... I like the arid Eos, the desert Elaaden, the icy/snowy Voeld and all this work for nothing, because when I am done, I am done
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Post by Pearl on Apr 23, 2017 22:04:43 GMT
Yet ME:A gets all of the heat. Because Andromeda is still a brand new release, and the issues haven't been fixed yet. If the issues get fixed, people will stop giving it heat, as has happened with the other games you listed. Also, I find it amusing that you're acting like the respective communities for those games didn't raise hell when the games were in their initial, buggy state. When consumers pay for a product that doesn't meet their expectations, they tend to be annoyed, and air their grievances. This is a fact of life.
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dm04
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by dm04 on Apr 23, 2017 23:00:18 GMT
Yet ME:A gets all of the heat. Because Andromeda is still a brand new release, and the issues haven't been fixed yet. If the issues get fixed, people will stop giving it heat, as has happened with the other games you listed. Also, I find it amusing that you're acting like the respective communities for those games didn't raise hell when the games were in their initial, buggy state. When consumers pay for a product that doesn't meet their expectations, they tend to be annoyed, and air their grievances. This is a fact of life. This. And... when you get a new game from Bethesda that is open world and sandbox, like Skyrim or Fallout 3/4, you kinda expect it to be buggy and have a lot of issues, and this whole sandbox stuff? Sure it have "less" content and the content it has is of lower quality, but it is so damn intertwined, problems are expected. Maybe it is better to compare MEA to a more similar game... how about... Witcher 3? "Closed" in the beginning, reagions open as you progress through the game, just like MEA and heavily based on the main story and side content. But it is like what, 10x bigger/more then MEA? But does it have 10x more bugs and glitches? NOpe. And last but not least and actualy mainly: someone said that already here, BioWare was never about great stories and great characters, but about SUPERB presentation and MEA failed. Bugs can be fixed and people will calm down. This weird animations, facial expression, camera working (always love this minor conversation wehre the cam just zoons in on Ryder while the NPC keeps on with his daily routine and walks off screen, while Ryders keeps talking to a wall), that can be fixed as well, and people will calm down (remember the shitstorm after ME2 when people found out BW stripped the inventory? Didn't last long.). But what realy kills the game, is the gameplay. If we split any feature into a few stages (yah said that already in another thread) like first idea, implementation, half done, finished, polished... EVERYTHING is stuck in stage 1-2, nothing is finished, nothing is done, nothing is polished. Take ANY feature of MEA and you will find a dozen ways how to improve it and make it better within 5minutes. Try this with Witcher, you play, and you say "yah that feels about right, nothing more to add to it". New features? Sure, but those that are there? Nope. They are fine. This can be fixed as well, some with patches, some with DLCs. But that harm is done. People will calm down about it, eventualy, but the game will not be remembered as ME or ME2. What bugs me more then BW or the state of the game, are the people saying MEA is great. It is not all fail and bad and awfull as some say, I actualy like it more then ME3, but it is far from being great.
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VanSinn
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
Posts: 576 Likes: 1,429
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 23, 2017 23:57:22 GMT
I'm gonna man up a bit here and offer a bit of an apology.
I'm not looking for any responses, I'm not looking for pity or any other form of attention. This is purely a bit of an explanation/apology.
No details will be provided, but there's some shit I've been dealing with for years now that are kinda kicking me in the ass recently. The frustration I gave into earlier and expressed a little too clearly mostly comes from my personal shit. I still disagree (quite vehemently!) with some of you on the quality of the content ME:A provides (with the obvious exceptions of the known issues) but I shouldn't have gotten as aggressive in my responses.
It was over the top, and I shouldn't have done it. I'm gonna bow out of this discussion for the next little while until I feel I've gotten some of this under control a little better.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 1:49:36 GMT
Single player MMO.
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Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Apr 24, 2017 2:16:24 GMT
I think the therm still applies, ME:A does have vast maps with nothing relevant to do and you take a lot of time getting from point A to B. Even the therm semi-hub does not do it justice. That is a more Deus Ex/TW2 thing.
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Cypher
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ItsFreakinJesus
XBL Gamertag: ItsFreakinJesus
PSN: TheMadTitan
Posts: 848 Likes: 1,024
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Post by Cypher on Apr 24, 2017 17:26:59 GMT
There's no need for a new term because open world is apt. You get dropped into a zone and can go in any which location you choose when you choose; that's open world. Andromeda and Inquisition just have more than one location in comparison. Not a bad thing or a good thing. What people get confused with is when conflating open world games with sandbox games, like GTA, Saints Row, and in some cases, Skyrim, where things are instanced beyond random enemy spawns. You can run off and play tennis in GTA and you can stand back and watch guards randomly fight enemy goons in Skyrim without any sort of intervention on your part. This is on top of whatever sidequests and fetch quests these games have, all of which serve to make the big open areas far more engaging. Ditching open world design would just mean you'd have small linear or branching zones with the same exact issues, or you could come up with a branching sandbox, which is how Hitman games are traditionally designed. Open worlds won't benefit RPGs until more of them adopt sandbox gameplay like GTA and Saints Row. There's no reason why Kett and Resistance couldn't randomly spawn on any given planet and fight each other, or why there couldn't have been random outpost defense, colonist rescuing to ease the repetition in the fetch quests. Not to mention, more mini-games in general. Quasar should've come back, along with those arcade games from the Citadel DLC. The OP was looking for a neutral answer and this is it. I agree. Inquisition and Andromeda are really big open worlds like Skyrim, Far Cry 3 & 4, Fallout 3, 4 and New Vegas. However, why does GTA and Saints' Row considered Sandbox? They're kind of the same to me. GTA and Saints Row are sandboxes because they're go anywhere and do anything kinds of games. You can roam around and explore, you can cause havoc, take on sidequests, watch the AI seamlessly fight each other--sometimes with player input--or tackle unscripted fights yourselves. Open world games, you get to explore bigass environments, and maybe explore, but everything is still relatively confined in regards to what you can do or what your environment does to react to what you're doing.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 24, 2017 17:28:16 GMT
The OP was looking for a neutral answer and this is it. I agree. Inquisition and Andromeda are really big open worlds like Skyrim, Far Cry 3 & 4, Fallout 3, 4 and New Vegas. However, why does GTA and Saints' Row considered Sandbox? They're kind of the same to me. GTA and Saints Row are sandboxes because they're go anywhere and do anything kinds of games. You can roam around and explore, you can cause havoc, take on sidequests, watch the AI seamlessly fight each other--sometimes with player input--or tackle unscripted fights yourselves. Open world games, you get to explore bigass environments, and maybe explore, but everything is still relatively confined in regards to what you can do or what your environment does to react to what you're doing. Thanks Cypher.
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