Turian Werewolf
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Post by Turian Werewolf on Apr 24, 2017 19:22:44 GMT
Both things can be true.
I have a lot of respect for Casey, and his mark on the trilogy is inedible.
That doesn't change the fact that he and whoever else (Mac?) screwed up big time with ME3's ending.
That doesn't mean I wanted him to leave. I mean, the ending to ME3 was going to be forever tainted no matter what, but it would've been nice to see what he would've brought to Andromeda.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 24, 2017 19:25:38 GMT
Just because "it doesn't give you sci-fi tingles" doesn't mean it is why he left, its just as likely he left because of death threats and people wanting his head on a pike, or another reason is he wanted to do something else. True, but I think losing creative control over the current idiots running the show at BioFail is still the best hypothesis as to why he left. I mean, creative differences is a thing. Especially when I see the final product completely devoid of the sci-fi feels past Mass Effect games had. Wait..What? Hudson was the reason why the original trilogy ended so badly.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 24, 2017 19:27:15 GMT
Not as much as the failure that is Andromeda. Hey, hey. Let's not be hasty now. Derp faces and lolhaircuts are one thing, but "art" is something else entirely. And never forget it was the "art" which made Andromeda necessary in the first place. Without it, a normal sequel would've been possible and most (if not all) of this would never have happened. Don't let some miguided nostalgia glasses blind you. Everything wrong with Mass Effect, including the current thing can be laid at the feet of "art"... and the people behind it, one of which you're now inexplicably pining for. ^this.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 24, 2017 19:29:00 GMT
So I can't blame the guy for leaving since the final product does not give me any sci-fi tickles. Guess Casey Hudson offered more to the Mass Effect series then any of us thought. He will be missed. Best wishes to Casey Hudson. AH-AH-AHEM...! Not all of you. I've been defending this motherfucker's share of the faults since the Ending controversy days.
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Post by bakgrind on Apr 24, 2017 19:30:07 GMT
There are actually plenty of people who didn't hate ME3's ending... I know several in RL myself. I know of 17 personal friends and family members that do not like ME 3 as much as the other Mass Effect games. Interesting enough is that the younger members ( people younger than 30 ) focus on the ending as the problem while the older people felt the game lost it's way after the Tuchanka story arch and that the ending just made you more aware of the problems to where you could not forgive the issues that one had with the game up until the ending. In an agreeable ending type of scenario people will forgive the weaker aspects of the game as long as they can walk away feeling good about it. The biggest problem with the ending is that they tried to fit and justify to much stuff in a short span of time that just made it feel that not only was it not a Mass Effect type of game or it simply was just not believable. In short they tried to make it Star Trek smart ,but it was beyond their means to do so.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 24, 2017 19:35:51 GMT
So do people like Casey Hudson or not? I'm never sure what the consensus is from day to day. Truth. Fickleness has always been strong in the BSN. More like everyone flips a coin. Heads I like this tails I'm an angry mofo.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 24, 2017 19:37:51 GMT
So the only thing everybody has against Casey Hudson is the ME3 ending, which in my opinion I would hold out more against Mac Walters - because you know, he's the writer and ME3 writing was pretty bad and inconsistent with ME1 & 2 anyway, not just the ending was bad. But whatever. At least ME3 still had that sci-fi feels, and Andromeda doesn't even feel like I've played a sci-fi game. It's a really strange feeling. Like nobody on the current BioFail team even understands what it's like to love movies like Aliens and Blade Runner. Pity.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 24, 2017 19:38:09 GMT
There are actually plenty of people who didn't hate ME3's ending... I know several in RL myself. I know of 17 personal friends and family members that do not like ME 3 as much as the other Mass Effect games. Interesting enough is that the younger members ( people younger than 30 ) focus on the ending as the problem while the older people felt the game lost it's way after the Tuchanka story arch and that the ending just made you more aware of the problems to where you could not forgive the issues that one had with the game up until the ending. In an agreeable ending type of scenario people will forgive the weaker aspects of the game as long as they can walk away feeling good about it. The biggest problem with the ending is that they tried to fit and justify to much stuff in a short span of time that just made it feel that not only was it not a Mass Effect type of game or it simply was just not believable. In short they tried to make it Star Trek smart ,but it was beyond their means to do so. personally the issue with me3 was the earth portions. The geth part of the story was fine, it just need more options. I can see both sides of the cerberus issue but it still was fine. priority earth, the extra stuff that can happen in the cerberus mission and the side quest were the major issues. ME3 issues is that it just does not have enough meat on it. it lack too much that was in me1 and 2. Added to that it did one majorly unforgivable thing....it cut how the collector base choice would effect the ending. imagine how thing would be like if people destroyed the base and then later find out that saving it was the one way to destroy the reapers with out destroying all synthetic life in the galaxy... that would be perfect. but no, we had to have the same end with a different color.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 24, 2017 19:41:13 GMT
So the only thing everybody has against Casey Hudson is the ME3 ending, which in my opinion I would hold out more against Mac Walters - because you know, he's the writer and ME3 writing was pretty bad and inconsistent with ME1 & 2 anyway, not just the ending was bad. But whatever. At least ME3 still had that sci-fi feels, and Andromeda doesn't even feel like I've played a sci-fi game. It's a really strange feeling. Like nobody on the current BioFail team even understands what it's like to love movies like Aliens and Blade Runner. Pity. Seriously... what? Dude Casey was the lead designer. HE HAS THE FINAL SAY OUT SIDE OF EA. It does not matter what Mac writes, it can only be in it if Casey says so. He should of seen that what ever Mac wrote was a bad idea and not put it in. Yet he allowed it. Sorry, but it's Casey's fault not Mac's.
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Post by cotheer on Apr 24, 2017 19:51:47 GMT
Ah, yes, Casey the "No ABC" Hudson Yes, i'm still salty
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Post by laxian on Apr 24, 2017 19:56:08 GMT
So I can't blame the guy for leaving since the final product does not give me any sci-fi tickles. Guess Casey Hudson offered more to the Mass Effect series then any of us thought. He will be missed. Best wishes to Casey Hudson. As if Casey had been still been great by the time they started working on ME:A, wasn't it him that had a hand in making the rubbish we know as Mass Effect 3? (Sure, it does have certain moments, but it doesn't fit the rest of the trilogy, the story is too linear (I myself would recruit all the "minor" races first and then go for the Asari, if given the choice, because with them "in the boat" the others will fall in line way easier!), the ending is (even with Extended Cut!) bullshit!) Oh I am not saying he can't make good games, but he had already lost his mojo before ME:A (not that the other guys did any better - I mean I had fun in ME:A, but compared to ME1 and 2 it's mediocre (!)...except for the combat system! Funny how this kind of is also true for Dragon Age (except that inquisition had that button mashing for auto-attacks...damned, WHY? And the submarine thing (the pinging to highlight stuff you could interact with or pick up!))...Bioware really is losing its touch, they once were masters of their art, but ATM they are apprentices at best!) greetings LAX
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 20:03:18 GMT
Apparently Hudson was behind the original (pre-extended cut) endings of ME3, so there's reason to thrash him. But apparently he was also the guy who made Mass Effect happen in the first place, so there's more than enough reason to praise him. He was behind the horrible failure that was ME3, but he wasn't behind the much-less-of-a-failure that is ME:A. It's difficult really, and I don't want to judge Hudson without very solid and reliable sources on what he did and did not.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 24, 2017 20:06:48 GMT
So the only thing everybody has against Casey Hudson is the ME3 ending, which in my opinion I would hold out more against Mac Walters - because you know, he's the writer and ME3 writing was pretty bad and inconsistent with ME1 & 2 anyway, not just the ending was bad. But whatever. At least ME3 still had that sci-fi feels, and Andromeda doesn't even feel like I've played a sci-fi game. It's a really strange feeling. Like nobody on the current BioFail team even understands what it's like to love movies like Aliens and Blade Runner. Pity. Seriously... what? Dude Casey was the lead designer. HE HAS THE FINAL SAY OUT SIDE OF EA. It does not matter what Mac writes, it can only be in it if Casey says so. He should of seen that what ever Mac wrote was a bad idea and not put it in. Yet he allowed it. Sorry, but it's Casey's fault not Mac's. Still doesn't make him a writer. And unfortunately for Casey, the lead writer he had was shit. Case in point, Andromeda's horrible writing where Mac Walters was given even more powers to ruin things up. And ruin things up good he did.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 20:08:07 GMT
Seriously... what? Dude Casey was the lead designer. HE HAS THE FINAL SAY OUT SIDE OF EA. It does not matter what Mac writes, it can only be in it if Casey says so. He should of seen that what ever Mac wrote was a bad idea and not put it in. Yet he allowed it. Sorry, but it's Casey's fault not Mac's. Still doesn't make him a writer. And unfortunately for Casey, the lead writer he had was shit. Case in point, Andromeda's horrible writing where Mac Walters was given even more powers to ruin things up. And ruin things up good he did. Why is ME:A much less ruined than ME3 then?
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Post by Iakus on Apr 24, 2017 20:08:57 GMT
Biofail! Ah, the wit. I'm looking forward to the time that ME3 and its ending is looked on nostalgically as a masterpiece. Probably happen around ME:A3. Best case scenario: It'll be looked back upon, people will laugh nervously, and change the subject.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 24, 2017 20:10:48 GMT
Apparently Hudson was behind the original (pre-extended cut) endings of ME3, so there's reason to thrash him. But apparently he was also the guy who made Mass Effect happen in the first place, so there's more than enough reason to praise him. He was behind the horrible failure that was ME3, but he wasn't behind the much-less-of-a-failure that is ME:A. It's difficult really, and I don't want to judge Hudson without very solid and reliable sources on what he did and did not. MEA is a much less failure then ME3? What galaxy are you from?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 24, 2017 20:12:20 GMT
Both things can be true. I have a lot of respect for Casey, and his mark on the trilogy is inedible. That doesn't change the fact that he and whoever else (Mac?) screwed up big time with ME3's ending. That doesn't mean I wanted him to leave. I mean, the ending to ME3 was going to be forever tainted no matter what, but it would've been nice to see what he would've brought to Andromeda. No, Mac did wonderful work with Garrus in ME1/2 and probably more stuff in ME2 but the guy should never have replaced Drew as the new Lead Writer and appointing him to Creative Director after the massive idiocy of ME3's ending is such a backwards decision I've continually wondered if BioWare thought the initial wave of criticism was done by deliberate "Haters" or people out to "get them" and then they thought to give Mac a higher-ranking role out of spite for those people? I don't know, but with all the talk about BioWare running their company with rampant nepotism it doesn't surprise me at all. They just don't realize how much it's hurting their production pipeline to let mid-tier staff rise up to the point of ineptitude and crippling their projects from up top. Mac could barely even point out how ME1 came to be as it did in the latest interview he gave. It just reaffirms my opinions of him that he was a tag-along senior writer on ME1 who opportunistically rose in rank when Drew wanted to leave because he underestimated how much baggage this franchise is. Just the fact that he says creating minutiae in lore is his weak-point as a writer tells me almost everything I need to know about him as the creative controller of this IP. Mass Effect, as far as I'm concerned, is specifically known because of its strong identity that is shaped thanks to the intricate lore. It's what every major retrospective I've watched seems to point out, that the lore rivals real history almost, and even if you don't understand all of it or don't care to you have this sense of awe over how vast and believable it is - there is so much to learn beyond what you've picked up on. That's all a testament to how much detail this franchise has/had. Mac allegedly cares but he didn't consider it as carefully when deciding ME3 had to be like a "summer end-of-the-world blockbuster" or shoehorning Cerberus in everywhere, and now he's sitting telling Gamespot or whichever it was that even he is impressed with how ME1 came to be. The difference between Mac and Drew is that Mac has a lot of ideas and sometimes good intuition but Drew K knew what he was doing. He knows how to map out a story. Judging by the Foundation comics or the Evolution series that Mac respectively penned and drafted the stories for it feels like a scramble of whichever idea he had floating around in his head at the time. The Foundation comics in particular are just meandering or episodic but without purpose, which is how I believe he winds up writing almost every story he's done (except for Garrus). Think about the Kid in ME3. Traumatic dreams, then NOTHING. Udina stages a coup... and then NOTHING. In Andromeda Jien Garson dies because of assassination... and then nothing. The difference between Mac/Drew and Casey is that they're the writers and he's the director/vision-holder. He can tell what he wants to happen but ultimately they'll be writing it for him. The most deliberate example I can think of is the notion that L'Etoile had to write about Shepard's armor for Legion when it completely contradicted what he wanted Legion to be. That was most likely Casey's directive and ultimately that was also the directive of ME3: "Synthetics can develop emotions, they're like us." He was having a bigger picture in mind whereas L'Etoile, the writer, was concerned about the specific draft he was working on. Drew is probably a bit better than most there because he writes trilogies in his spare time, just finished a full new book trilogy in between his departure from BioWare between 2012 and 2016 in fact.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 24, 2017 20:12:57 GMT
There are actually plenty of people who didn't hate ME3's ending... I know several in RL myself. I know of 17 personal friends and family members that do not like ME 3 as much as the other Mass Effect games. Interesting enough is that the younger members ( people younger than 30 ) focus on the ending as the problem while the older people felt the game lost it's way after the Tuchanka story arch and that the ending just made you more aware of the problems to where you could not forgive the issues that one had with the game up until the ending. In an agreeable ending type of scenario people will forgive the weaker aspects of the game as long as they can walk away feeling good about it. The biggest problem with the ending is that they tried to fit and justify to much stuff in a short span of time that just made it feel that not only was it not a Mass Effect type of game or it simply was just not believable. In short they tried to make it Star Trek smart ,but it was beyond their means to do so. Not sure exactly what this has to do with what I said. I meant to say that not everybody had an issue with the ending and therefore an issue with Casey Hudson. As a response to posts saying it's funny how fans have turned from blaming him for the ending to wishing him back.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Apr 24, 2017 20:13:34 GMT
Biofail! Ah, the wit. I'm looking forward to the time that ME3 and its ending is looked on nostalgically as a masterpiece. Probably happen around ME:A3. oh goodie, vonuber plays the false equivalence game again. Just because you love MEA, doesn't invalidate how anybody feels about the OT. If you like MEA more than the OT, that invalidates you in my opinion. See, it's all an opinion. I love the OT and I will never say anything about the ME3 ending other than it blew dog ass. Your argument is tired as fuck. My nostalgia is for the moments of each game. Many of you seem to wrongly think that I and others compare the TRILOGY after all patching and DLC to MEA. That is a giant assumption, and a stupid one. ME1 - liked it for what I liked it for ME2 - liked it for what I liked it for ME3 - liked it until the end, then played MP I compare what I see from this game to each of those games individually, with as little prism as possible because FFS it is just a game. ... Casey Hudson left because he was never going to get all that egg of his face working for Biower. If he wants to make a new start, I don't blame him. We all screw up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 20:14:21 GMT
Apparently Hudson was behind the original (pre-extended cut) endings of ME3, so there's reason to thrash him. But apparently he was also the guy who made Mass Effect happen in the first place, so there's more than enough reason to praise him. He was behind the horrible failure that was ME3, but he wasn't behind the much-less-of-a-failure that is ME:A. It's difficult really, and I don't want to judge Hudson without very solid and reliable sources on what he did and did not. MEA is a much less failure then ME3? What galaxy are you from? ME:A has a boring, meh story. ME3's story is a cringeworthy failure from start to finish. ME:A's writing is ok-ish by average video game standards. ME3's writing is bad by average video game standards.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 24, 2017 20:14:55 GMT
Honestly, I don't even think it's worth talking with people who only see issues in the ending in all ME3's writing.
But whatever, this topic is about the sci-fi-ness of MEA, or the lack of.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 24, 2017 20:15:31 GMT
Apparently Hudson was behind the original (pre-extended cut) endings of ME3, so there's reason to thrash him. But apparently he was also the guy who made Mass Effect happen in the first place, so there's more than enough reason to praise him. He was behind the horrible failure that was ME3, but he wasn't behind the much-less-of-a-failure that is ME:A. It's difficult really, and I don't want to judge Hudson without very solid and reliable sources on what he did and did not. MEA is a much less failure then ME3? What galaxy are you from? Were you around the BSN in the weeks following ME3? People give MEA sh*t, yes, but this is a rousing TRIUMPH compared to the Dark Days that followed ME3. THe sheer anger, the raw fury unleashed on those boards was absolutely breathtaking
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 24, 2017 20:26:23 GMT
MEA is a much less failure then ME3? What galaxy are you from? Were you around the BSN in the weeks following ME3? People give MEA sh*t, yes, but this is a rousing TRIUMPH compared to the Dark Days that followed ME3. THe sheer anger, the raw fury unleashed on those boards was absolutely breathtaking Have you played the games?
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Post by vonuber on Apr 24, 2017 20:45:37 GMT
oh goodie, vonuber plays the false equivalence game again. Just because you love MEA, doesn't invalidate how anybody feels about the OT. If you like MEA more than the OT, that invalidates you in my opinion. See, it's all an opinion. I love the OT and I will never say anything about the ME3 ending other than it blew dog ass. Your argument is tired as fuck. My nostalgia is for the moments of each game. Many of you seem to wrongly think that I and others compare the TRILOGY after all patching and DLC to MEA. That is a giant assumption, and a stupid one. ME1 - liked it for what I liked it for ME2 - liked it for what I liked it for ME3 - liked it until the end, then played MP I compare what I see from this game to each of those games individually, with as little prism as possible because FFS it is just a game. It's not false equivalence at all, just a comment on how opinions are changing over time, including the perception of the writing staff. For example people are now saying ME2 had a fantastic main plot; it's only a matter of time before ME3's ending gets rehabilitated. Also, I never said it invalidates how anyone feels about the OT: you are creating arguments I have not made (which is getting a bit tiring as fuck, as you eloquently put it). I still like the OT but am not blind to its flaws - it's only a game, as you put it. That means for me: ME1 - liked it for what I liked it for ME2 - liked it for what I liked it for ME3 - liked it for what I liked it for ME:A - like to for what I like it for currently, having not finished it yet If you really compare them on a game by game basis as you state, then you should be able to agree for example that the Nomad is superior to the Mako in driving mechanics; the combat is better than any of the OT; ME:A screwed up the faces of the species compared to the OT; and Bioware seem to have a template for Black male characters which sucks ass.
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Post by tantumdicverbo on Apr 24, 2017 20:56:32 GMT
Both things can be true. I have a lot of respect for Casey, and his mark on the trilogy is inedible. Not for a krogan.
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