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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 25, 2017 11:14:39 GMT
Today, Resident Evil 7 players with an account got an email regarding the upcoming Free story DLC that was supposed to come out soon. Read and learn EA/Ware.
Remember that statement back in 2016 back from EA saying that if the studio needed more time, they would delay the game for them? Whatever was that about? Capcom seems to have the same mentality but they put their words into action.
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Post by kumazan on Apr 25, 2017 11:20:53 GMT
I really really wish this was the industry's standard rather than something so exceptional that feels praise-worthy when it's merely a decent treatment to their customers, but alas.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 25, 2017 11:23:20 GMT
Evil EA again? They fixed eyes and worst cases of animation in two weeks after release. Tell me more how they didn't have time for it during five years. If they released game one month later, we'd simply get normal eyes one month and two weeks later.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 25, 2017 11:24:12 GMT
When EA made that statement I was actually a little hopeful but of course the delay would've needed to be at least half a year or something which would've pissed people off. CDPR and Naughty Dog both delayed their last releases just 2-3 months and that was eerily close to the penultimate set dates. I thought that set a precedent but apparently EA or BioWare decided to keep aiming for that fiscal year release and short-term profit and now they're in radio-silent mode fixing the shit out of the game. I hope it's good. I don't hope they're pulling a Mass Effect Deception on us.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 11:25:21 GMT
It will be praiseworthy if the product does get released eventually, and is indeed noteworthy. Until then, it is a PR wording to cover up missed deadlines, neither of which is a commendable business practice per se.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 25, 2017 11:25:48 GMT
Evil EA again? They fixed eyes and worst cases of animation in two weeks after release. Tell me more how they didn't have time for it during five years. If they released game one month later, we'd simply get normal eyes one month and two weeks later. This is definitely the most puzzling aspect. Did they really not know? Were they so close to their own work they couldn't tell if people would find that unnacceptable? What focus groups did they use?? (Shinobi602 and BioFAN)
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 25, 2017 11:26:20 GMT
They definitely need to delay any Andromeda DLC.
Delay it for a year, delay it for ten.
Delay it until the sun goes nova and consumes us all.
Longer can only mean better.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 25, 2017 11:33:46 GMT
They definitely need to delay any Andromeda DLC. Delay it for a year, delay it for ten. Delay it until the sun goes nova and consumes us all. Longer can only mean better. DLCs are always tied to a game's fiscal year. By march 2018 the game will end production indefinitely. That's why it stings so much that they released it so unpolished and chopped up (I swear there are story beats missing all throughout the beginning chapters). Had they actually polished it further so they wouldn't have to rework animations and quests that don't trigger and even dialogue, they would be able to spend all that time on DLC instead whilist patching minute things. I won't be surprised if they had a 3-DLC plan but now one of those have been cut to pave way for their damage-relief plan.
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Post by cotheer on Apr 25, 2017 11:33:58 GMT
They definitely need to delay any Andromeda DLC. Delay it for a year, delay it for ten. Delay it until the sun goes nova and consumes us all. Longer can only mean better.If you're (not you specifically ) incompetent to do any better, then no. Andromeda already had 5 years development cycle and this is the result.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 25, 2017 11:43:49 GMT
They definitely need to delay any Andromeda DLC. Delay it for a year, delay it for ten. Delay it until the sun goes nova and consumes us all. Longer can only mean better.If you're (not you specifically ) incompetent to do any better, then no. Andromeda already had 5 years development cycle and this is the result. Again, don't look too bluntly at that 5-year record. If you take a look at the post-game credits you'll see a section devoted to "(pre-production)" leads, which are all very significant staff members that left and then later it lists a full "Dragon Age Finaling team" including Mark Darrah, Mike Laidlaw, John Epler, Patrick Weekes, and all the significant DA:I production staff who I am almost sure worked on most of the explorable planets, particularly Elaaden because there was a note on it that Patrick Weekes obviously wrote. So really, I think this game could be something like a 3-year buildup development amounting to something that just wouldn't work, then arguments, re-envisioning and staff leaving and then the actual production of the game turned out to be more like a 2-year thing. A lot of the main story cutscenes seem to be Schlerf's kind of work and I'm sure BioWare Montreal made those things and particularly the final mission shows me that BW Montreal can do fantastic work by themselves. I think moreso than "they couldn't do better in 5 years" it's more about looking at it as a game that entered a period of development hell and then they salvaged what they could from it in very short time. I'm sure some of the missteps came from up top (Mac is creative dir.) and some is definitely a general BW management issue but there's still an entire team and even several of 100+ people working on it and they're not all bad at what they do. It's just a massive collaborative effort. If the vision isn't cohesive enough or if one department isn't managed well it can all erode to hell and I think that happened to some extent. This was all a learning process for BW Montreal to find out what it means to be a BioWare developer from the ground up, and I have hope they can better find their footing moving forward.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 25, 2017 11:56:34 GMT
Just to play devil's advocate for a moment.
ME:A was already delayed once, how long did the developer's need.
Also, just from an accounting perspective they really didn't have a choice. You get to make one budget a year, no changes allowed once it's submitted. They had the launch of ME:A in last years budget with I assume ended 3/31/2017. They delayed the 3rd quarter release, and pushed it back as far as they could to still get the launch week sales into the fiscal year. There was no way they were going to push into the next fiscal year, seeing that they had probably already made the budget for this year, and didn't include the launch.
You can't compare pushing back a DLC in the same fiscal year to pushing the release of a game across fiscal years.
Yeah, I was upset the game got released in the state it was in. Maybe the initial deadline didn't line up with where they were at the time, who knows. But they're a public company and they have responsibilities.
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Post by degs29 on Apr 25, 2017 12:36:37 GMT
While I agree with this one particular instance, CAPCOM is far from classy on the whole.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 25, 2017 12:50:37 GMT
Today, Resident Evil 7 players with an account got an email regarding the upcoming Free story DLC that was supposed to come out soon. Read and learn EA/Ware. Remember that statement back in 2016 back from EA saying that if the studio needed more time, they would delay the game for them? Whatever was that about? Capcom seems to have the same mentality but they put their words into action. Um this has shades of GTA V all over it. Rockstar released several statements just like this for story dlc and 5 years later.... nada. I'll take a company (Bioware) who actually listens and responds to fan concerns (extended cut, Citadel dlc) over this bs any day.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 25, 2017 14:32:14 GMT
Until you see the final product from Capcom, I wouldn't call them classy over this yet. Other companies have done similar things in the past and still given out garbage or not addressed the problems at all.
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The morning is for coffee and contemplation.
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Post by Warrior DM on Apr 25, 2017 14:42:20 GMT
Just like how Street Fighter 5 was delayed for quality issues.
*cough*
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Vae Victis
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Post by AGECCR on Apr 25, 2017 15:19:21 GMT
I never thought I'd witness someone want Bioware to be more like CAPCOM of all companies. At least it's about a PR stunt here, and that's what this is - a PR stunt until they actually produce the said quality something.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 25, 2017 16:53:28 GMT
Seems legit. They're willing to do so over free content (this particular case anyways, cause capcom really doesn't have a great reputation) when bioware can't even do it when people are willing to pay for it. Much better fan service.
Also (since I saw the post), long dev cycles don't always guarantee a good product, believe it or not, but there is such things as spending to much time on a game. I find 5 years for Andromeda is more than enough, it's more than most games these days even get.
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qwib
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I am Pathfinder rah bah bah
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Post by qwib on Apr 25, 2017 17:10:37 GMT
CAPCOM did far worse things in the past, but being nice for ONCE makes them some kind of rolemodels. YEAH right.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 17:13:50 GMT
Today, Resident Evil 7 players with an account got an email regarding the upcoming Free story DLC that was supposed to come out soon. Read and learn EA/Ware. Remember that statement back in 2016 back from EA saying that if the studio needed more time, they would delay the game for them? Whatever was that about? Capcom seems to have the same mentality but they put their words into action. Tell that to the Street Fighter Franchise!
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 25, 2017 17:41:13 GMT
Evil EA again? They fixed eyes and worst cases of animation in two weeks after release. Tell me more how they didn't have time for it during five years. If they released game one month later, we'd simply get normal eyes one month and two weeks later. I'm confused. So, you're saying that waiting six weeks (which in my opinion, is like, "Wow. They did it. They gave everyone a victory middle finger who said they couldn't or wouldn't fix it.") If EA cared about Bioware's reputation, six weeks would've made all the difference. I'm not bashing the game since 1.05. I'm just still foaming at the mouth that this game was released in the state it was in. When the game is fundamentally broken, and you've already raged quit, you're going to see the faults in everything and for me, that's impossible to take my eyes off of it. Same thing with Inquisition for the PC port. I had to wait five months to get past the first boss and to get my gaming mouse to utilize two more buttons. By then, it was VERY HARD to forgive the game, but when I got to Skyhold, yo... the magic was back.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 25, 2017 17:53:03 GMT
Today, Resident Evil 7 players with an account got an email regarding the upcoming Free story DLC that was supposed to come out soon. Read and learn EA/Ware. Remember that statement back in 2016 back from EA saying that if the studio needed more time, they would delay the game for them? Whatever was that about? Capcom seems to have the same mentality but they put their words into action. I love ya Link, but like any other publisher that isn't Bioware, f*** em'. However, EA can learn from this... if they had a soul... if they understood a video game isn't just a f***ing video game. It's an amalgamation of art, music, writing, scripting and controls that completely surpasses all other mediums. Why? Because once it's done right, you're not done after three hours in a theater, it's not over when the album (CD, MP3 Playlist, etc) is finished, it doesn't take a break every 12 minutes for commercials... you are interacting with the canvas. You are given the keys to be your action hero/heroine. For me, I rank the Mass Effect and Dragon Age experience (and Fallout and Brother in Arms) higher than any other medium because it's a collaboration of teams that put it all together. Bioware, set the standard. CDPR, arguably (even though I can't personally enjoy Geralt) took that mantle. Someone here on the forums mentioned once that it was like working with one arm behind your back with EA. Yet, they're still moving forward in a positive direction with Frostbite. I just want Bioware to stop taking shortcuts that are going to undermine their reputation. That is all. I don't care who is at Bioware now, they have the franchises and they have my loyalty, but I ain't no cash cow.
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Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 25, 2017 17:55:24 GMT
CAPCOM did far worse things in the past, but being nice for ONCE makes them some kind of rolemodels. YEAH right. Capcom, Konami, etc... does it seem to me that there is a huge disconnect between their Japanese audiences and western ones? Maybe it's lost in translation.
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Post by klijpope on Apr 25, 2017 17:58:05 GMT
So really, I think this game could be something like a 3-year buildup development amounting to something that just wouldn't work, then arguments, re-envisioning and staff leaving and then the actual production of the game turned out to be more like a 2-year thing. A lot of the main story cutscenes seem to be Schlerf's kind of work and I'm sure BioWare Montreal made those things and particularly the final mission shows me that BW Montreal can do fantastic work by themselves. I think moreso than "they couldn't do better in 5 years" it's more about looking at it as a game that entered a period of development hell and then they salvaged what they could from it in very short time. I'm sure some of the missteps came from up top (Mac is creative dir.) and some is definitely a general BW management issue but there's still an entire team and even several of 100+ people working on it and they're not all bad at what they do. I suspect something similar. Might explain why a lot of the narratives feel a little undercooked, especially on Elaaden. Also why some of the dialogue feels like first draft not a sixth draft. You're other points, though, relate to the business environment. It's difficult to compare BioWare and EA, in a business sense, to CDPR, which has its own independent revenue stream and is not financialised, and Naughty Dog, which is a second party dev house nurtured by Sony itself (Sony also being a film studio...). I think it says more about financiers and money men. While they fund the film industry and are clearly after a profit, film financiers also know they are funding artworks. Film producers might be total shits but they do seem to get some of that at least. The money markets seems to treat games more like software. IE: engineering, not art. There's also a strange kind of cognitive dissonance in part of the tech industry where even some game devs might think what they are doing is engineering rather than art. It's also worth noting economic trends in general. Mass Effect came out in 2007, just before the financial crisis hit. BioWare was bought by EA in 2009(?). Probably not a coincidence. Game development also more vulnerable to the gig economy/precariat issues. That does seem to have affected ME:A with all the outsourcing of animation. This deprofessionalising trend is effecting many sectors, but the low unionisation of tech and game devs makes them even more susceptible (in a similar way to SFX houses). One other point, though. I personally think Mac Walters gets too much responsibility for the outcomes. A game's creative director is not equivalent to a film director, and in this case, it seems Mac Walters was brought back from the new IP to get ME:A back on track. We don't know because the game industry is not as transparent as the film industry and we never find out what goes on behind the scenes. And after the ME3 ending controversy, GG, and NMS, I doubt we ever will.
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Stealing Your Bike ;)
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Post by deebo305 on Apr 25, 2017 17:58:52 GMT
You must be a new Capcom fan Link, they've got plenty to make up for. One nice email doesn't make up for it
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 25, 2017 18:08:35 GMT
So really, I think this game could be something like a 3-year buildup development amounting to something that just wouldn't work, then arguments, re-envisioning and staff leaving and then the actual production of the game turned out to be more like a 2-year thing. A lot of the main story cutscenes seem to be Schlerf's kind of work and I'm sure BioWare Montreal made those things and particularly the final mission shows me that BW Montreal can do fantastic work by themselves. I think moreso than "they couldn't do better in 5 years" it's more about looking at it as a game that entered a period of development hell and then they salvaged what they could from it in very short time. I'm sure some of the missteps came from up top (Mac is creative dir.) and some is definitely a general BW management issue but there's still an entire team and even several of 100+ people working on it and they're not all bad at what they do. I suspect something similar. Might explain why a lot of the narratives feel a little undercooked, especially on Elaaden. Also why some of the dialogue feels like first draft not a sixth draft. You're other points, though, relate to the business environment. It's difficult to compare BioWare and EA, in a business sense, to CDPR, which has its own independent revenue stream and is not financialised, and Naughty Dog, which is a second party dev house nurtured by Sony itself (Sony also being a film studio...). I think it says more about financiers and money men. While they fund the film industry and are clearly after a profit, film financiers also know they are funding artworks. Film producers might be total shits but they do seem to get some of that at least. The money markets seems to treat games more like software. IE: engineering, not art. There's also a strange kind of cognitive dissonance in part of the tech industry where even some game devs might think what they are doing is engineering rather than art. It's also worth noting economic trends in general. Mass Effect came out in 2007, just before the financial crisis hit. BioWare was bought by EA in 2009(?). Probably not a coincidence. Game development also more vulnerable to the gig economy/precariat issues. That does seem to have affected ME:A with all the outsourcing of animation. This deprofessionalising trend is effecting many sectors, but the low unionisation of tech and game devs makes them even more susceptible (in a similar way to SFX houses). One other point, though. I personally think Mac Walters gets too much responsibility for the outcomes. A game's creative director is not equivalent to a film director, and in this case, it seems Mac Walters was brought back from the new IP to get ME:A back on track. We don't know because the game industry is not as transparent as the film industry and we never find out what goes on behind the scenes. And after the ME3 ending controversy, GG, and NMS, I doubt we ever will. This. Thank you.
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