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Post by klijpope on Apr 25, 2017 18:57:30 GMT
Not in the old sense, of course.
It's just that Ryder gets to make many binary decisions that seem to either promote truth, honesty, transparency, open inquiry, trust in others, and 'democratic' ideals, or emphasise security, propaganda, keeping secrets for the greater good, telling lies, advancing the Initiative over others, and 'authoritarian' ideals.
Examples:
Science or military outpost on Eos.
Telling Keri to tell the truth or promote the Initiative (does this effect whether she is incarcerated? In my PT, Tann has her imprisoned at one point after I told her to tell the truth).
Giving the Remnant cores to Nakmor or keeping them for the Initiative
Letting Verand go or confining her (Liam LM)
Let family out of cryo or arrest the protestors
Reveal Three Sabres connection to the Nexus or not.
Sarissa disgraced or secret kept.
Sending the Anagram messages uncensored, or editing the list.
Give the AI to the Angara, or to the Initiative
I seem to remember more but can' think of them right now.
Reyes vs Sloane is more difficult to parse: Sloane is clearly authoritarian, but she is also open and honest about it; Reyes claims he is for the 'common people', but is never honest, and I can't but help think he'd use manipulation, misinformation, and propaganda to rule.
Although most of the above result in changes to outcomes, whether dialogue, situations, or help in the final battle, there is no reason some kind of score could not be attached that relates to the freedom vs security status of the Heleus Cluster in any sequel.
Given that so many of the binary (no tone) choices (even all of them) were along this freedom/security continuum, it would kinda make sense.
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qwib
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I am Pathfinder rah bah bah
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Post by qwib on Apr 25, 2017 20:01:01 GMT
If the ME Trilogy or the Witcher Trilogy tought me anything it's the following: Savegames are worthless and will forever be worthless, except for some Easter Eggs and 2-3 dialogues from Companions.
It's all great in Theory, but if something hasn't worked for 10 years now, why are we still asking for it?
Just let those choices have an impact now in form of a DLC and be done with it. Andromeda 2 should be a fresh start.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 25, 2017 23:15:55 GMT
Not in the old sense, of course. It's just that Ryder gets to make many binary decisions that seem to either promote truth, honesty, transparency, open inquiry, trust in others, and 'democratic' ideals, or emphasise security, propaganda, keeping secrets for the greater good, telling lies, advancing the Initiative over others, and 'authoritarian' ideals. Well, yes and no. Biggest choices don't fall under that easily. Krogan choice for example benefits AI in both cases and "trusting" option even more, since getting two thousands of krogans is clearly better than a free battery. Or keeping Sarissa when truth was exposed. Does it promote trust in others or cold sacrifice? Sloanne/Reyes you've already mentioned. Kett facility was practically old P/R decision. All in all I don't see it as binary distribution. Honest/Manipulative approach isn't necessary correlates with Peaceful/Agressive one from logical perspective. Like being space hippies, but hiding from people cases where it doesn't work. Wait, what? Didn't know it could happen. I was always telling the truth to her, although she said some of her materials pleased Tann.
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Post by smellycatbutts on Apr 26, 2017 5:51:20 GMT
Not in the old sense, of course. It's just that Ryder gets to make many binary decisions that seem to either promote truth, honesty, transparency, open inquiry, trust in others, and 'democratic' ideals, or emphasise security, propaganda, keeping secrets for the greater good, telling lies, advancing the Initiative over others, and 'authoritarian' ideals. Well, yes and no. Biggest choices don't fall under that easily. Krogan choice for example benefits AI in both cases and "trusting" option even more, since getting two thousands of krogans is clearly better than a free battery. Or keeping Sarissa when truth was exposed. Does it promote trust in others or cold sacrifice? Sloanne/Reyes you've already mentioned. Kett facility was practically old P/R decision. All in all I don't see it as binary distribution. Honest/Manipulative approach isn't necessary correlates with Peaceful/Agressive one from logical perspective. Like being space hippies, but hiding from people cases where it doesn't work. Wait, what? Didn't know it could happen. I was always telling the truth to her, although she said some of her materials pleased Tann. Is there an option for her not to be imprisoned? I've only done two full playthroughs, and she was jailed in both.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 26, 2017 7:09:02 GMT
Well, yes and no. Biggest choices don't fall under that easily. Krogan choice for example benefits AI in both cases and "trusting" option even more, since getting two thousands of krogans is clearly better than a free battery. Or keeping Sarissa when truth was exposed. Does it promote trust in others or cold sacrifice? Sloanne/Reyes you've already mentioned. Kett facility was practically old P/R decision. All in all I don't see it as binary distribution. Honest/Manipulative approach isn't necessary correlates with Peaceful/Agressive one from logical perspective. Like being space hippies, but hiding from people cases where it doesn't work. Wait, what? Didn't know it could happen. I was always telling the truth to her, although she said some of her materials pleased Tann. Is there an option for her not to be imprisoned? I've only done two full playthroughs, and she was jailed in both. Huh? Weird. In my playthrough she was only hiding from angry mob, because she embellished something about colony life before it. Which I never asked her to, for the record.
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A passionate advocate for no-pants Fridays
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Post by Maeljin on Apr 26, 2017 7:41:06 GMT
Is there an option for her not to be imprisoned? I've only done two full playthroughs, and she was jailed in both. Huh? Weird. In my playthrough she was only hiding from angry mob, because she embellished something about colony life before it. Which I never asked her to, for the record. Ah so there is some variations to this! Mine might be bugged though, because she has ended up jail in my PTs as well, although I answered differently each time. And on the second playthrough, she suddenly started giving me Tann's 'thanks', although I hadn't been painting rainbows over the AI's status.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 26, 2017 8:53:01 GMT
Huh? Weird. In my playthrough she was only hiding from angry mob, because she embellished something about colony life before it. Which I never asked her to, for the record. Ah so there is some variations to this! Mine might be bugged though, because she has ended up jail in my PTs as well, although I answered differently each time. And on the second playthrough, she suddenly started giving me Tann's 'thanks', although I hadn't been painting rainbows over the AI's status.Me neither, I just told colonists to pull their shit together. Apparently it was enough to make Tann happy.
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Post by feuerrabe on Apr 26, 2017 14:00:01 GMT
The closest thing to such a score is the psychological profile that Lexi creates on Ryder.
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A passionate advocate for no-pants Fridays
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Maeljin on Apr 26, 2017 15:42:26 GMT
Ah so there is some variations to this! Mine might be bugged though, because she has ended up jail in my PTs as well, although I answered differently each time. And on the second playthrough, she suddenly started giving me Tann's 'thanks', although I hadn't been painting rainbows over the AI's status.Me neither, I just told colonists to pull their shit together. Apparently it was enough to make Tann happy. You mean the cryo pod debacle after making the outpost on Eos? I solved that the same way both times, so yeah could be it. Nice bit of quest connectivity too, if that's the case.
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Post by klijpope on Apr 26, 2017 19:42:50 GMT
After my second play through I think there might be a chunk of subtlety in the writing that's impossible to notice with one PT.
My example:
In my first PT, as Sara, did not get into any romance at all with Liam. At the end of the game, when she asks him how he thinks she's doing as Pathfinder, he said: "You're the Pathfinder for everyone; that's the best!". I go, hmm, that's pretty inarticulate even for you (file away as weak writing).
Second PT, Sara has a one-night stand on the smeggy couch with Liam. After that, Liam's relationship with Sara is a bit edgier, and his comment at the end refers to the results speaking for themselves.
Then I connected these differences to Lexi's warning that Liam might be falling for you. So, while on my second PT there's an air of stand-offish equality to Sara's and Liam's relationship, my first PT, Sara friend-zoned Liam and he ends up with a major crush on her, puts her on a pedestal; hence his particularly garbled dialogue. So what I filed way as weak writing initially suddenly seems rather cute and nuanced.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 26, 2017 19:48:44 GMT
If the ME Trilogy or the Witcher Trilogy tought me anything it's the following: Savegames are worthless and will forever be worthless, except for some Easter Eggs and 2-3 dialogues from Companions. It's all great in Theory, but if something hasn't worked for 10 years now, why are we still asking for it? Just let those choices have an impact now in form of a DLC and be done with it. Andromeda 2 should be a fresh start. Choices should have an impact on the game where they were made. Leave the baggage out of future games.
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It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on Apr 26, 2017 20:47:02 GMT
Ya know, I like that breakdown you have. I played through as logical/professional, but I guess in many ways it was more of authoritarian/propagandist runthrough. Or at least, they set it up that way. For example - I didn't want to badmouth Tann, because what the hell good would it do? I kept feeling like the responses to him, and a bunch of small things in the game, were suggesting that Ryder was not supposed to like him. Especially in the initial convo with him. There was no reason for Ryder to give him so much attitude, but all the dialogue choices seemed to be edged with it. I had no issue with Tann. He was doing the best he could do in an impossible situation. Of course he would try to suppress panic as much as possible, especially considering the fact the initiative folks are a bunch of crybabies who thought everything was going to be peachy and then went feral when there were unforeseen problems. The rebellion, at least the way it was described in the game, was disgraceful. Turning on your own people in such a situation. I found it disgusting, and I had no pity for any of them. I found it much harder to like Addison because she basically covered up for one of her cronies who went and got herself pregnant, with absolutely no concern for the scarcity of resources!!!! What a selfish jerk. And then...keeping Spencer on as her lackey even through he did some really shady things with the Krogan? At least Tann is open about his distrust for them. And all of Addison's bitchiness boils doen to the fact that she doesn't have all the power she wants. So, yeah...I went the propaganda route in the interviews. But seriously, what good would it do anyone to rile up the remaining Nexus folks? Sure, shit is bad...but it could be worse. And I didn't want to make it worse by making folks lose what little faith they had in their leaders. So in summary...I guess logic does kinda = renegade in this game...from a certain perspective. Still...I wish I had more opportunity to punch people. Especially Addison.
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Post by klijpope on Apr 26, 2017 21:14:56 GMT
So, yeah...I went the propaganda route in the interviews. But seriously, what good would it do anyone to rile up the remaining Nexus folks? Sure, shit is bad...but it could be worse. And I didn't want to make it worse by making folks lose what little faith they had in their leaders. So in summary...I guess logic does kinda = renegade in this game...from a certain perspective. Still...I wish I had more opportunity to punch people. Especially Addison. I really like the way the politics is done in this game. Nothing is clear-cut, but the grey areas do not cancel each other out. Each political-player represents an ideology and a personality, and it's these combinations that make the decisions thought provoking. <I'm going to commit a double-heresy now, by both invoking the Witcher, and saying Andromeda does something better than it! > This is way better than the political choices in the Witcher 3, where we are just given a personality to pick, with any ideology confusing or murky or non-existent. <END DOUBLE HERESY> Tann is a utilitarian technocrat with zero emotional intelligence, despite a talent for smarm. He genuinely wants the Initiative to succeed, but rubs people up the wrong way and is prejudiced against krogan. He can hold his own and even best the Pathfinder in the verbals. " Exactly what I would have said. In fact, I just did." Addison starts the game as someone in the depths of depression using anger as a front; someone who is normally by-the-book forced to play it by ear and has had to make so many desperate decisions she's far from her comfort zone. What's great here, is despite some awkward lines and delivery, this is a pretty sophisticated character. By the end of the game she can be harangued and bollocked by the Pathfinder back to a semblance of competence. She has real failings and real weaknesses, and feels very human. Both of these characters are far more fascinating than Udina, who is just a walking sneer.
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It's just a game, folks...
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by timebean on Apr 26, 2017 22:00:54 GMT
So, yeah...I went the propaganda route in the interviews. But seriously, what good would it do anyone to rile up the remaining Nexus folks? Sure, shit is bad...but it could be worse. And I didn't want to make it worse by making folks lose what little faith they had in their leaders. So in summary...I guess logic does kinda = renegade in this game...from a certain perspective. Still...I wish I had more opportunity to punch people. Especially Addison. I really like the way the politics is done in this game. Nothing is clear-cut, but the grey areas do not cancel each other out. Each political-player represents an ideology and a personality, and it's these combinations that make the decisions thought provoking. < I'm going to commit a double-heresy now, by both invoking the Witcher, and saying Andromeda does something better than it! > This is way better than the political choices in the Witcher 3, where we are just given a personality to pick, with any ideology confusing or murky or non-existent. <END DOUBLE HERESY> Tann is a utilitarian technocrat with zero emotional intelligence, despite a talent for smarm. He genuinely wants the Initiative to succeed, but rubs people up the wrong way and is prejudiced against krogan. He can hold his own and even best the Pathfinder in the verbals. " Exactly what I would have said. In fact, I just did." Addison starts the game as someone in the depths of depression using anger as a front; someone who is normally by-the-book forced to play it by ear and has had to make so many desperate decisions she's far from her comfort zone. What's great here, is despite some awkward lines and delivery, this is a pretty sophisticated character. By the end of the game she can be harangued and bollocked by the Pathfinder back to a semblance of competence. She has real failings and real weaknesses, and feels very human. Both of these characters are far more fascinating than Udina, who is just a walking sneer. Hallelujah. I loved TW3, but I am so sick of people acting like it is the end-all be-all of RPG existence. DAO blows MEA and TW3 both outta the water, in my book! Interesting take on Tann. His personality didn't bother my Ryder (or me, really...except for his opinion of krogan, which is my favorite race in ME!!). I feel like Addison's actions were the issue, not her personality. From what I got from the game, one of the the big issues that provoked the rebellion was folks wanting their family members woken up...folks who were annoyed at how getting outta cryo was handled (ie, who were considered "vital" people). The fact that Addison woke up her school chum, who then went and got pregnant, stole a shuttle, and started stealing initiative resources was classic cronyism. And it was her assistant Spencer, that she constantly protected, who was the real krogan-hater of the group. But I do agree...at least she seems human...well...after her face was fixed in the patch, that is! For my next PT, I am gonna role with a Ryder who sympathizes with Addison ad dislikes Tann.I guess, more of the candid, paragon type. Interested to see how it plays out...
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Post by kenshen19 on Apr 26, 2017 22:32:54 GMT
The closest thing to such a score is the psychological profile that Lexi creates on Ryder. How much can this change cause mine reads pretty much the same in both PTs? While I have made some choices the same I have also varied many other things and I have not seen any difference. The only differences I have seen come at the end of the game on who helps, who lives or dies.
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Post by Sah291 on Apr 26, 2017 22:58:24 GMT
The closest thing to such a score is the psychological profile that Lexi creates on Ryder. How much can this change cause mine reads pretty much the same in both PTs? While I have made some choices the same I have also varied many other things and I have not seen any difference. The only differences I have seen come at the end of the game on who helps, who lives or dies. There are narrative stats that show exactly how many emotional/logical/casual/professional responses you make, and how many interrupts you take, so I believe Lexi's profile is just based on those, whichever style is more dominate. Taking interrupts seems to effect how impulsive you are said to be, and it also seems to factor in flirts/romances.
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